Wood delivery: some problems with it

[snowleopard]

Jags, I believe he resides at Fairbanks, Alaska.

Um, right address, wrong gender, Dennis.

And to be fair, our weather is often milder than what you guys are coping with. I just like givin' ya a hard time once in awhile.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Geez, I knew better too. Just forgot. And what happened to all your snow?

 

[Jags]

Jags, I believe he resides at Fairbanks, Alaska.

Um, right address, wrong gender, Dennis.

And to be fair, our weather is often milder than what you guys are coping with. I just like givin' ya a hard time once in awhile.

Well....QUIT IT! Everybody knows I don't have a sense of humor.

 

[snowleopard]

Geez, I knew better too. Just forgot. And what happened to all your snow?

Today's my day. I had someone look at my driver's licence (while I was paying for chainsaw chaps, criminy), and said, "Wow, this must be a really old picture of you!" Ah, geez. What a charmer!

Snow? We've got plenty. Perfect weather for a snowball fight.

 

[Intheswamp]

Geez, I knew better too. Just forgot. And what happened to all your snow?

Today's my day. I had someone look at my driver's licence (while I was paying for chainsaw chaps, criminy), and said, "Wow, this must be a really old picture of you!" Ah, geez. What a charmer!

Snow? We've got plenty. Perfect weather for a snowball fight.

Don't ya just love'em?! My daughter gave birth to my 2nd granddaughter a couple of months ago. She's back teaching her 5th grade class and one of the highschool students asked her, "Did you ever have your baby?". Yeah, it really impressed her. Sometimes you gotta wonder what drug some of these peoples parents were taking... :smirk:

Ed

 

[firefighterjake]

Geez, I knew better too. Just forgot. And what happened to all your snow?

Today's my day. I had someone look at my driver's licence (while I was paying for chainsaw chaps, criminy), and said, "Wow, this must be a really old picture of you!" Ah, geez. What a charmer!

Snow? We've got plenty. Perfect weather for a snowball fight.

Hehheh . . . I made the mistake of trying to compliment my dental hygenist yesterday by telling her she looked nice and was looking better than the last time I saw her (she was going through a divorce and visibly looked stress and you could see it in the way she looked) but I didn't want to seem as though I was hitting on her by saying something like "You look nice" or insulting her by saying "You look a lot better than the last time I saw you" so I said "You look decent."

After she finished laughing she said, "Thanks . . . I think . . . although that compliment beats the one I got the other day from a client who said I was think . . . compared to most Maine women."

Sometimes us guys never learn . . .

 

[snowleopard]

Sometimes us guys never learn . . .

Yup. Sometimes you can't win for losing. That guy at the shop kept trying to dig his way out, and just made things worse: "Well, look" [shows it to a customer] "she looks really nice in this picture. She has her hair back and everything." To be honest, I thought it was really funny, but I wasn't going to let him off the hook by laughing.

So I was out working on the woodpile today, and it seemed like almost half of what I was moving went into the too-long-for-the-stove pile. It was a pain, as for some of it I actually had my tape measure out--really slowed down the process. I figured anything over 20" was best cut down. Got another 1/4 cord split and stacked under the eaves of the garage (it's about an 8' overhang, and the wood is up on dry gravel, so it's a pretty good spot) and between those two piles I got my butt handed to me. Weekend wood warrior here.

And I thought of what I'd consider fair. The seller brings his saw, cuts all the longs to 18", splits them, and stacks them, with my help. Then we measure, and he makes up the shortfall with wood, or cash if he'd prefer. If he agrees to that, I'll buy another load from him, IF it's cut to 18" (or even between 16 and 20) when he comes out. Makes the run worth it. It's extra work for him, but it's slowed me down to measure each stick and restack the longs. He advertised it "cut to length for your stove," but these are ranging from shorts to 25" so far.

I realize he may not go for it, but I'll feel like I'm doing the right thing if I give him a chance to be accountable.

 

[rdust]

It was a pain, as for some of it I actually had my tape measure out--really slowed down the process.

Instead of using a tape make a stick to your max length, it makes it easier. For me I have a stick marked from 14-18, less than 14 doesn't get put on the pile.

 

[snowleopard]

Instead of using a tape make a stick to your max length, it makes it easier. For me I have a stick marked from 14-18, less than 14 doesn't get put on the pile.

Good idea. I was getting pretty good at guessing lengths after a bit, but wanted to be scrupulous about not putting anything on the too-long pile that didn't belong there, since I want to be very straight with the seller.

Several times I'd pick out a piece of wood of a good size to measure, but it wasn't much more convenient than the tape, and sooner or later it would get tossed to get chopped.

I'm setting my shorts aside to stack on top of the pile for stove fillers, as gyrfalcon suggested, and I can live with those being part of the delivery--there's not too many of them. The longs are, so far, actually more than half of the wood I've sorted--it would sound crazy, except I think it's just a function of him not having burned wood before.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Instead of using a tape make a stick to your max length, it makes it easier. For me I have a stick marked from 14-18, less than 14 doesn't get put on the pile.

Good idea. I was getting pretty good at guessing lengths after a bit, but wanted to be scrupulous about not putting anything on the too-long pile that didn't belong there, since I want to be very straight with the seller.

Several times I'd pick out a piece of wood of a good size to measure, but it wasn't much more convenient than the tape, and sooner or later it would get tossed to get chopped.

I'm setting my shorts aside to stack on top of the pile for stove fillers, as gyrfalcon suggested, and I can live with those being part of the delivery--there's not too many of them. The longs are, so far, actually more than half of the wood I've sorted--it would sound crazy, except I think it's just a function of him not having burned wood before.

I drilled a hole in an 18-inch wooden ruler and put a short length of rope in it as a handle. You'd need to cut down a yardstick if you did something similar. It does make the measuring a lot easier. I find that after a while when I'm working with the splits, I lose my ability to tell the difference by eye consistently.

Personally, I think you're being far too kind. I don't know why you'd have to burn wood yourself to know that 25 inches isn't 18. It's a product. You ordered one thing very specifically and he brought you something else. At this point, I wouldn't even be particularly polite about it, I'd just tell him he didn't deliver what you ordered and that he needs to come pick up the stuff you can't use and refund that part of your money, or come and cut it down himself.

Are there other firewood suppliers in your area? I wouldn't deal with this guy again because there's just a screw loose somewhere in his thinking. Some overs are one thing, but 50 percent is just totally beyond the pale, IMO.

 

[snowleopard]

I don't think it's so much a matter of kindness as it is looking for a win-win solution. I don't mind being part of his learning process if he is willing to put this right. I would rather see him become educated about the needs of his customers than to not say anything and feel victimized by the transaction. As to whether he's burned before making a difference, I think taking him inside to my stove, and showing him what it means to try to put a 25" stick of wood in a firebox that's built for shorter wood will help him understand the needs of burners. If he'd burned himself, he would have known why length makes a difference. Picture's worth a thousand words.

If this young man will put this right, then we've both learned and both benefitted from the transaction, and if he fixes this, then I'd order from him again. His wood is good, and the price is the best I've seen here. It ranges up to 325 for seasoned birch, so 175 for green sounds fair to me. If he won't correct the problem, then I don't do business with him, and I'd let word get around about that. I really don't think it will come to that--he didn't try to bluff his way out of the mess--he apologized, and said he'd put it right at the next delivery. I asked him if he measured when he cut, and he said that he did on a couple of them. He seemed receptive when I told him there were better ways to do that. My bigger concern at this point is that it's not looking like I got a full three cords out of this delivery. If I calculate the longs at the length I ordered, and I'm short, I'll expect him to put that right.

When I looked over the wood after he unloaded, it looked like there was some poplar in there. Had a good look at it yesterday, and it's all nice birch.

In reference to the earlier discussion about white birch's value as firewood, this from a paper published by UAF's Geophysical Institute in a series called the Alaska Science Forum, article 1821: "Paper birch, the first choice of Alaskans, provides 25.4 million Btu per cord, according to a table on the energy content of Interior Alaska trees prepared by George Sampson, a former Institute of Northern Forestry research forester. Tamarack, a tree often mistaken for sickly spruce because of its spindly branches, provides 24.8 million Btu per cord, followed by black and white spruce at about 20.5 million Btu, aspen at 18.8 million Btu, and balsam poplar at 17.5 million Btu. Sampson's measurements are for air-dry wood with a 20 percent moisture content. Wood is considered dry when it reaches a moisture content of 15 to 30 percent. Freshly cut, green wood contains 30 to 60 percent moisture."


That puts it up in pretty good company by my way of looking at it. Another thing I like about birch is it's a clean wood to work with. The wood I used this winter, especially the stuff of questionable quality, was shedding thick bark and punky wood. Birch will spare me that mess. If this turns out like I hope, than next winter is going to be so much easier.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I don't think it's so much a matter of kindness as it is looking for a win-win solution. I don't mind being part of his learning process if he is willing to put this right. I would rather see him become educated about the needs of his customers than to not say anything and feel victimized by the transaction. As to whether he's burned before making a difference, I think taking him inside to my stove, and showing him what it means to try to put a 25" stick of wood in a firebox that's built for shorter wood will help him understand the needs of burners. If he'd burned himself, he would have known why length makes a difference. Picture's worth a thousand words.

Well, we disagree on this, but he's your problem to deal with, not mine, thank goodness. To me, the bottom line is you ordered X and he gave you Y. And I also really don't get why the concept of a box, whether it's a stove or a fireplace, would need a demonstration. If you can succeed in training him up, that's great, but I suspect it'll be something else next time.

I'm much more forgiving of the shortage on volume with a guy who's new to the business since judging what volume of stuff makes a cord without stacking it up and measuring it is something you can only get from experience. That's learnable, whereas understanding that 18 means 18 and not 25 is something that shouldn't have to be learned, seems to me.

I think whoever it was suggested above that birch grows more slowly and is therefore more dense where you are than in our latitudes is probably right. And besides, you don't have a lot choice up there! We easterners can get pretty snotty about our wealth of superb hardwoods, but pay us no mind. I totally agree with you, btw, that it's a pleasure to handle and I'm always happy to find some in a mixed load since it's just about ideal for "shoulder season" here.

 

[snowleopard]

I guess it's the teacher in me--I know that the concrete makes a bigger impression than the abstract. Words he can forget, but seeing that wood sticking out of the stove will make an unforgettable impression. On the other hand, getting shorted on my cordage is not something I'd take lightly.

I'll overlook the ridiculous tendency of Easterners to burn hardwoods instead of making fine furniture with it or milling trim, if you'll ignore my pointed comments about weenie trees that can't stand a little weather. Maybe they'd grow here if we knitted them nice fluffy mufflers for their roots :lol: