Wood Stove exageration ....

[synthnut]

I'm beginning to see a trend here ......I 've spent a few days looking at various stoves for my vacation, soon to be permanent home cabin...The one thing I've seen from the advertisements is an exagerated btu output ......Another exageration is the fact that I have NEVER been able to find a stove that is the measurement that the manufacturer states it is .......They all seem to be off by a minimum of 1" in dimension ......That might not bother some people, but I am dealing with a small fireplace , and would like to put as large a stove in as possible , especially with the exagerated btu output that most manufacturers claim .... I already have an add on wood burning setup on my oil fired furnace, but I would like to have the wood stove upstairs in fireplace for those days/nights when you just want to take the chill off .......Does any manufacturer follow what they print ?.....Thanks, Jim

 

[babalu87]

What is your hearth like?
Are you going with a free-standing stove or an insert?
You can extend your hearth by making a pad and put whatever you want for a stove in.

My stove measures exactly what Morso says it does.

 

[synthnut]

Babalu,
My hearth does not come out all that far ...Not a problem though, as I have plenty of tools , and plenty of blue stone to extend the hearth ....I'm seeing a lot of stoves needing 16-18 inches of additional hearth in front of the stove .... I'm not really sure if that's a heat clearance, or if that's a clearance in case you drop burning wood, or sparks , or all of the above ? ....Jim

 

[abj1969]

The one thing I’ve seen from the advertisements is an exagerated btu output

when we were looking for our stove i was told not ot look at the btu because it can be off due to being tested in perfect controlled conditions and perfect wood. the guy at the store said to go more on the sq ft it will heat. he said there is a specific formula for that.... not sure if there is any truth to that but thats how we picked ours out.

 

[Mike Wilson]

My stove measures exactly what Jotul says it should measure... I know, I measured it. It also heats up the square footage that it says it will heat up... I know, I've used it for three seasons. It also has the burn times they said it would... etc.

Not sure what you are looking at, but before my purchase I went to my local stove store with a tape measure to confirm the measurements, and then bought the stove. As for BTU measurements, I look at them like I do MPG measurements... somewhere, in a far off corner of the galaxy with a certain specific atmosphere and gravity, the numbers will be correct. That's why all the stove and automobile manufacturer have testing facilities there.

Babalu,
My hearth does not come out all that far ...Not a problem though, as I have plenty of tools , and plenty of blue stone to extend the hearth ....I'm seeing a lot of stoves needing 16-18 inches of additional hearth in front of the stove .... I'm not really sure if that's a heat clearance, or if that's a clearance in case you drop burning wood, or sparks , or all of the above ? ....Jim

Both. And now, unless your manual states otherwise, I understand that the NFPA requires 18 inches in front of the door of any insert. I find that there is significant heat on the floor 18" in front of my insert... I also find that embers can, and have, shot out 30 inches. That's just the way it is.


-- Mike

 

[BrotherBart]

I have never seen a stove that measured differently from the measurements in the manual. I also have never owned a stove that I could tell you how many BTUs it was putting out or how much space it could heat.

 

[velvetfoot]

Are you thinking stove or insert? I think an insert might be more aesthetic and use less floor space, but doesn't put out as much heat as a stove and really benefits from a blower which you wouldn't have in a power outage.

 

[synthnut]

I won't mention the manufactures whose stoves I measured ......I don't want to bad mouth an otherwise great stove...Perhaps its a manufacturer specific problem .....The stoves I measured were from 2 of the companies products that I was looking at ...I purposely took my measuring tape with me to make sure .... One unit was 1 3/8 higher than the manufactures specs .... BTW, I did measure from the bottom of the feet, and not from the adjusters that were installed, so it was not a mistake in measuring ...

I was wanting to get a Jotul stove , but after reading the various issues with getting them started , and draft issues , I looked at other manufacturers .....I've alway liked Jotul , and have wanted an Oslo for as long as I can remember ...They're just nice looking well built units ...

My fireplace is small ...It's only 36" wide by 28" tall ..... I have the depth written down somewhere .....The cabin is about 1300 sq ft , but I would rather put in a stove with MORE claimed output than the same output that I need ....The ceiling where the stove will be is a cathedral ceiling and is open to the upstairs bedroom so heating the living room/upstairs bedroom should be no problem ...Appropriatly placed fan's will hopefully do the job for the downstairs bedroom and the bathroom ....Jim

 

[synthnut]

I've had both insert and wood stove in another house ....The insert is only good with the fan on ....I find that there is a lot of heat blocked by inserts ....It does look nicer , but with my cabin as rustic as it looks , a stove fits the bill ....Jim

 

[BrotherBart]

One measurement that can throw you off is on the Englander free standing stoves with legs. They used to ship the stoves with six inch legs and currently they ship with nine inch legs. The height on the website still shows as with the six inch legs. I don't know why they haven't changed that since the stoves have been shipping with the taller legs for over a year.

 

[synthnut]

BB,
You just burst my bubble !!....I looked at the price of the Englander 30NC and see that they're at Home Depot ... I'm starting to warm up to the fact that this stove at 27 3/4" will fit in my fireplace , and now they ship with taller legs ??....I can't win !....Do they still have the 6" legs do you know ? .....This is what I mean about measurements ....I wasn't even talking Englander when I started this thread ..... URRRRRRRR !!..... Thanks for the info though.....Better to know now , and not later ....Jim

PS..This still looks like a doable stove with some modifications even if the company has no 6" legs ....I'll give them a call

Update ....I checked with the parts ...I can get the 6" legs .....I hate to pay the additional money though....I'll still call them and see if they'll work something out with me ....

 

[BrotherBart]

BB,
You just burst my bubble !!....I looked at the price of the Englander 30NC and see that they're at Home Depot ... I'm starting to warm up to the fact that this stove at 27 3/4" will fit in my fireplace , and now they ship with taller legs ??....I can't win !....Do they still have the 6" legs do you know ? .....This is what I mean about measurements ....I wasn't even talking Englander when I started this thread ..... URRRRRRRR !!..... Thanks for the info though.....Better to know now , and not later ....Jim

PS..This still looks like a doable stove with some modifications even if the company has no 6" legs ....I'll give them a call

The stoves now come with both legs and pedestal included so the height with the ped is probably 27 1/2. They do have six inch legs included in their parts catalog and that is what I have on mine in the fireplace. You might be able to order one from overstockstoves.com with six inch legs. Ask the guys at ESW.

 

[jjbaer]

My stove measures exactly what Jotul says it should measure... I know, I measured it. It also heats up the square footage that it says it will heat up... I know, I've used it for three seasons. It also has the burn times they said it would... etc.

Not sure what you are looking at, but before my purchase I went to my local stove store with a tape measure to confirm the measurements, and then bought the stove. As for BTU measurements, I look at them like I do MPG measurements... somewhere, in a far off corner of the galaxy with a certain specific atmosphere and gravity, the numbers will be correct. That's why all the stove and automobile manufacturer have testing facilities there.

-- Mike

I also did what Mike did (went and measured it) and then before I bought I talked to Mike about his......LOL....and then I bought........ the critical thing I found was that my hearth, at the back floor, rises vertically for about 10 inches and then slopes forward and upward towards the damper area and you have to make sure that the top back of the stove (for an insert) will clear this incline..........

 

[Corie]

BB,
You just burst my bubble !!....I looked at the price of the Englander 30NC and see that they're at Home Depot ... I'm starting to warm up to the fact that this stove at 27 3/4" will fit in my fireplace , and now they ship with taller legs ??....I can't win !....Do they still have the 6" legs do you know ? .....This is what I mean about measurements ....I wasn't even talking Englander when I started this thread ..... URRRRRRRR !!..... Thanks for the info though.....Better to know now , and not later ....Jim

PS..This still looks like a doable stove with some modifications even if the company has no 6" legs ....I'll give them a call

The stoves now come with both legs and pedestal included so the height with the ped is probably 27 1/2. They do have six inch legs included in their parts catalog and that is what I have on mine in the fireplace. You might be able to order one from overstockstoves.com with six inch legs. Ask the guys at ESW.

29" to top of flue collar, so yep, 27.5" to top of stove with the pedestal on. You're good BB.

 

[synthnut]

Cast Iron ....I have the same setup to contend with .....Thanks for the lookin out ...Jim

Corie ....29" to the top of the thimble ? ......Time to break out the chop saw .....This stove will be a mini 30 when I get done with it , but boy will I have a warm cabin !!....LOL !!....Jim


Does anybody have any measurements other than the simple L X W X D that Englander gives ??... I can't seem to find any spec's for more intricate measurements ....Thanks, Jim

 

[Corie]

I have three of the 30NC sitting down here in the lab with me. Write a list of exactly what you need measured and I can measure any quantity to you like on the stove!

 

[synthnut]

Corie,
Thanks, that would be a big help ...I need to know where in reference to the top, the flue thimble is .....So I need an arial view of the top ... depth X width, and where the thimble sits on the top ... This will tell me where the flue will come up, and if I'm going to hit the angled slope in the back of my fireplace as I put the stove in place .....Jim

 

[BrotherBart]

Corie,
Thanks, that would be a big help ...I need to know where in reference to the top, the flue thimble is .....So I need an arial view of the top ... depth X width, and where the thimble sits on the top ... This will tell me where the flue will come up, and if I'm going to hit the angled slope in the back of my fireplace as I put the stove in place .....Jim

Don't forget the depth of the blower housing, optional but ya need it in a fireplace install, which attaches to the back of the rear heat shield.

 

[synthnut]

BB,
THANKS !!...I thought maybe the blower houseing was mounted inside the casing like some units do ....Not much in the way of visuals on the site ....With the slope of the back of my fireplace , it may not be an issue ( I hope !! ) .Thanks for the heads up ..... Jim

PS...The top of my fireplace goes back 26" from the face of the fireplace to the back. The top goes straight back 20 inches and then drops down on an angle for a distance of 20" ...That 20" measurement slopes quickly, and accounts for the addional 6" in depth ....I don't know if I'm explaining myself well ....I should post a drawing but I'm a newbie and don't know how ...I have to read more on the forum structure ....????....Jim

 

[BrotherBart]

I think the best way to install a 30 inside a fireplace is like mine is done. The upper step-top is inside the fireplace and the lower half of the stove is outside on the hearth. That puts 18" of the stove body including the heat shield inside the fireplace. The heat shield is exactly the same height as the flue collar.

 

[synthnut]

BB,
From the face of my fireplace openning , to the center of the openning for my flue is 13" ........ With this being said , will my heat shield be inside my fireplace ? .....In other words, how far back is the center of your flue pipe from the face of your fireplace ?.....Thanks, Jim

 

[BrotherBart]

BB,
From the face of my fireplace openning , to the center of the openning for my flue is 13" ........ With this being said , will my heat shield be inside my fireplace ? .....In other words, how far back is the center of your flue pipe from the face of your fireplace ?.....Thanks, Jim

Dang you have it too easy on this. I couldn't get any of this info and had to hold my breath, order a stove from 1800 miles away and then make it work after it got here.

You are going to need a 30 or 45 degree stainless steel elbow to connect a liner to the stove. A liner won't come straight down 99% of the flues in the country and connect right to the flue collar of the stove. The important measurement is the centerline of the flue collar to the very back of the heat shield. Looks like eight and a half inches but Cory can measure it better with a stove out on the floor.

From the face of the brick on my fireplace to the centerline of the flue collar is 12".

The big problem you are going to have is stove height. My fireplace opening is 30" and that is pretty much the minimum it could have been and me still be able to get in there, barely, to connect the liner. Also any less space on top of the stove and the blower that shoots air out the top of the heat shield and straight across the top of the stove would be blowing into the back of the lintel instead of out into the room.

Don't forget that the 13-NCL would be a lot easier installation in there, cost less and would probably provide all of the heat you need. I am one of those cases that has to have a monster stove, a 454 Surburban and as a backup pistol when deer hunting a .44 mag with 7 1/2 inch barrel. I tend to over spec things just a tad. It ain't cheap or easy being me.

 

[myzamboni]

Isn't the 30NC too much stove for 1300 sq ft?

By the way synthnut, my Jotul starts just fine. Draft is not an issue. Last night I even got an overnight burn (relaunched from coals this morning) which isn't supposed to happen with the F3 CB (BB have you had overnight yet on your F3?)

 

[Corie]

BB,
From the face of my fireplace openning , to the center of the openning for my flue is 13" ........ With this being said , will my heat shield be inside my fireplace ? .....In other words, how far back is the center of your flue pipe from the face of your fireplace ?.....Thanks, Jim

Do you have any CAD programs or should these drawings be in .jpeg format?

 

[BrotherBart]

Isn't the 30NC too much stove for 1300 sq ft?

By the way synthnut, my Jotul starts just fine. Draft is not an issue. Last night I even got an overnight burn (relaunched from coals this morning) which isn't supposed to happen with the F3 CB (BB have you had overnight yet on your F3?)

Only if overnight is four hours. I moved the F3 the heck out of here to use in the warehouse for occasional warm ups and put the F100 back in my office. I am not a big fan of either stove but the F100 does a better job in the office and I am in here most of the time to keep it fed.

I can't tell you what it is about the F3 but me and it just don't see eye to eye. I may give it another chance in here later in the year but I am not sure. The office is in the basement and I don't even try long night burns anymore down here. Around ten o'clock I load up the 30-NC and start getting ready for bed and then just fire the crap out of the office stove first thing in the morning. I have the F100 aimed at my desk so the radiant heat gets the job done right fast.

As to your question about the 30 being too much for 1300 sq. ft. Definitely. The 30 IS 1300 sq. ft. it seems. It is one big mutha wood stove. He will be sleeping on the porch a lot.