Wood stove in a shed/workshop

[illini81]

We have a 10'x23' shed/workshop on our property which we currently just use for storage. The shed is a mess and needs some TLC, but I think it has serious potential. We would like to turn it into a hangout spot. We also would like to (if this is possible in a way that meets code - I have not looked into this yet) make it a room that we can use sort of as an overflow bedroom when the need arises.

I am planning on insulating the walls and ceiling. I've attached some pics. The shed currently has an Upland #17 stove installed into a brick chimney. The chimney is roughly 13 ft tall (measured from the height of the stove outlet).

I want to replace the Upland #17 with something larger that will provide a longer burn time. Although I am insulating the walls and ceiling, I expect there will be plenty of air leaks. Also the windows are single pane, the floor is a concrete slab, and there are barn doors at one end that will be a significant leak (although I will try to mitigate that somewhat).

Would a PE Super 27 be way way too much stove for this space? I saw one for sale on FB marketplace and PE's seem like really good stoves.

 

[begreen]

The little Upland should suffice and drive you out of the place once it is insulated. But the burn times will be what they are. The Super is a good choice for the shorter chimney and it will run happily on a half-load. Yes it will be overkill, but if the price and condition of the stove are good, you could probably make it work. It is convective vs the Upland's radiant design and could probably heat the place on a calm 32º day without insulation.

PS: The shed looks wider than 10'. More like 15' wide? And there is some cubic footage in the loft which adds to the heated space.

 

[St. Coemgen]

Personally, unless it is damaged and can not be used, I would first give the Upland a try before you consider a replacement.

 

[Mech e]

I would not use the space as an overflow bedroom with a wood burner being present.

 

[illini81]

The little Upland should suffice and drive you out of the place once it is insulated. But the burn times will be what they are. The Super is a good choice for the shorter chimney and it will run happily on a half-load. Yes it will be overkill, but if the price and condition of the stove are good, you could probably make it work. It is convective vs the Upland's radiant design and could probably heat the place on a calm 32º day without insulation.

Good to know. I assumed it was a given that I should get rid of the old stove. Overall I'm pretty new to the wood stove thing (3 yrs), but I guess I had the wrong impression that all smoke dragons should be replaced at the first opportunity.

PS: The shed looks wider than 10'. More like 15' wide? And there is some cubic footage in the loft which adds to the heated space.

You're estimating eye is good! The shed is 14.5' wide, not 10'.

 

[illini81]

Personally, unless it is damaged and can not be used, I would first give the Upland a try before you consider a replacement.

I haven't really thoroughly examined the Upland. I'll have to do so.

 

[illini81]

I believe the chimney is a typical clay lined, brick chimney. I'll confirm this once the snow melts and I can get out there with a ladder. If I wanted to run a metal liner down the chimney, I'd need to break out the concrete section holding the thimble, right? I would need access in order to connect the liner to the stove pipe?

 

[illini81]

So I picked this project back up now that our snow is finally melted.

I tried out the Upland stove with a small fire, and unfortunately some smoke leaked out the back. Once the fire got going more, it stopped leaking (assuming this is because the draft picked up). Anyways, based on my limited understanding of cast stoves, I'm guessing that means it needs to be rebuilt? If that's the case, I'll probably just move on to a different stove.

I've been doing some research on small stoves, of which I knew nothing about until reading up for this shed project. Here are the stoves I'm considering at the moment:

VC Aspen C3 - people seem to have bad things to say about VC in general, and earlier iterations of this stove specifically to have had problems. I guess they can have issues with the fire dying when you shut the door. But I think I've read at least one person on here that has a new model who is happy with it, and I think I read in a thread from a few months ago a VC engineer (Corie?) was saying that this stove recently got re-designed. I'm drawn to the stove because of its looks, and because the price seems reasonable ($1,250, but since it's an efficient stove, I guess the tax rebate will apply). I also like the fact that the stove pipe comes out vertically instead of horizontally. This would make it draft better, right? I only have about a 17' chimney from top to floor and it's not lined, so I'm guessing I'll need all the draft I can get. Finally, they claim 10 hr burns. I'm assuming that's complete bunk, but even if I can get a 6 or 7 hr burn, that'd be nice.

Jotul 602 - Another small stove that we like the looks of a lot. It seems like it's been a popular burner for a long time. They seem more expensive, and they seem to hold their value on the used market. It doesn't seem like I'll find one used for less than ~700. Buying a well used cast stove scares me a little bit - I'm not interested in a stove rebuilding project.

Jotul F3 - Another popular, small Jotul. I found one that was $600 that I was pretty excited about, but apparently it's vintage 1985. Buying a stove that old scares me away.

Unless I can luck into a gently used Jotul for a steal of a price, at this point I'm leaning towards the VC. Is that a bad idea?

 

[illini81]

I just found a Hearthstone Shelburn (2 cuft) used for $800. It's a 2009. They seem to get decent reviews on the forums. Is there anything in the below pics that seems concerning? Is that much rust in the firebox normal?

 

[begreen]

Should work. Check the door hinges for wear. Looks like it sat outside on a porch or in a damp area for a bit. Offer $600.

 

[illini81]

Should work. Check the door hinges for wear. Looks like it sat outside on a porch or in a damp area for a bit. Offer $600.

Thanks, that seems like a reasonable offer. I just asked for another pic of the firebox, looking up at the burn tubes. Should I be concerned about any of the rust in this pic, or would you just call it surface rust?

 

[illini81]

Also, my chimney is 19' from top of chimney to the floor. It is unlined clay with interior dimensions of 11" X 6.5" (71.5 in^2 area). I found a manual for the Shelburne 8371 (not sure this is correct, but it came up when I searched for 2009 Shelburne manual). The manual says that it requires a 6" metal chimney or an 8X8 masonry chimney (64 in^2 area). Since the cross-sectional area I have is roughly equivalent to the required chimney area, am I ok?

 

[Bad LP]

I’d love that little space. My neighbor heats his wood shop that is much older than that with a 602 and we have had many beers and bourbon in it. Saw dust and all

 

[illini81]

I’d love that little space. My neighbor heats his wood shop that is much older than that with a 602 and we have had many beers and bourbon in it. Saw dust and all

Thanks! Yeah I'm pumped to get it set up. Lots of possibilities. I'm a bit of a dreamer... so there are quite a few possible dreams for the place, only a fraction of which will likely pan out But I'm sure we'll have plenty of good times in it for sure.

 

[begreen]

Also, my chimney is 19' from top of chimney to the floor. It is unlined clay with interior dimensions of 11" X 6.5" (71.5 in^2 area). I found a manual for the Shelburne 8371 (not sure this is correct, but it came up when I searched for 2009 Shelburne manual). The manual says that it requires a 6" metal chimney or an 8X8 masonry chimney (64 in^2 area). Since the cross-sectional area I have is roughly equivalent to the required chimney area, am I ok?

There should be a ss liner in the chimney.

Thanks, that seems like a reasonable offer. I just asked for another pic of the firebox, looking up at the burn tubes. Should I be concerned about any of the rust in this pic, or would you just call it surface rust?

It could be ok, but it's hard to say how deep the rust has penetrated. That is why I suggested the lower offer.

 

[illini81]

It could be ok, but it's hard to say how deep the rust has penetrated. That is why I suggested the lower offer.

They wouldn't come down in price, and so I decided to keep waiting and looking. I just found a Quadra Fire Yosemite (1.45 cuft firebox) for sale for $500. It looks like it's in excellent condition (2013, hasn't been used much). It's a beautiful stove, and from surveying old threads, it looks like it gets good reviews. I'm going to pick it up tomorrow AM. Super pumped!

 

[illini81]

It could be ok, but it's hard to say how deep the rust has penetrated. That is why I suggested the lower offer.

And yes, I will line the chimney. I'm not excited about it - will probably be difficult due to the size of the current clay liner. But I will line it one way or another. I may skip the insulation though, since I won't be burning that frequently.

 

[illini81]

I did end up buying the Yosemite. Seemed like a good deal for $500.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to get my chimney right. I have a section of 6" rigid pipe leftover from lining my house chimney. I was able to stick it pretty far down my 11"X6.5" chimney without issue. It snagged once or twice on mortar, but I was able to knock off the mortar. So that gives me hope that I can line with a 6" liner, although it wouldn't be insulated. Since I'll only be burning a few times/yr, I'm hoping that's ok.

Alternatively, I could line with a 5.5" insulated liner. Would that be preferred? Or am I going to have draft issues? The chimney height is 19' from top of chimney to the floor.

The main thing I am stuck on at this point is the thimble. From past threads I’ve read, it sounds like the concrete that is currently there should be 12” thick in all radial directions. It’s definitely not that thick. Do I need to knock out the concrete, and put something like this in there:

(broken link removed to http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/pdf/insulated-wall-thimble-instructions.pdf)

And then do I fit something like the snout of this tee inside the insulated thimble?

Chimney Tee Connector with Short Body and Tee Snout for Flex Liners - Rockford Chimney

Use the Short Body Chimney Tee Connector with 10 inch removable snout for constricted thimble installations. For use with flexible chimney liner systems.

www.rockfordchimneysupply.com

 

[illini81]

Forgot to attach pics.

 

[begreen]

Looks to be in pretty decent condition. They make insulated wall thimbles. That might be the best option here.

 

[gthomas785]

Alternatively, I could line with a 5.5" insulated liner. Would that be preferred?

What is on the outside of the chimney? If there's any wood or combustibles within 2" (often the case) then you have to insulate the liner.

 

[Hoytman]

If you care about keeping that little stove looking nice like that, then always heat it slowly or that porcelain in a few years will pop off, chip and flake. Stove looks in real good shape except for a few bricks, and they’re not bad. Seems like their bricks don’t last long. Easy enough to replace with better bricks, even modifying the new ones to match the factory bricks.

Yep! If you try and warm that stove/shed too quick with the shed being uninsulated that nice finish won’t last long. Stoves like that, abused ones, are seen on CL all the time...even some that aren’t abused have flaking finishes. If you treat it right it should last. Firebox looks really nice inside.

 

[begreen]

If you care about keeping that little stove looking nice like that, then always heat it slowly or that porcelain in a few years will pop off, chip and flake. Stove looks in real good shape except for a few bricks, and they’re not bad. Seems like their bricks don’t last long. Easy enough to replace with better bricks, even modifying the new ones to match the factory bricks.

Yep! If you try and warm that stove/shed too quick with the shed being uninsulated that nice finish won’t last long. Stoves like that, abused ones, are seen on CL all the time...even some that aren’t abused have flaking finishes. If you treat it right it should last. Firebox looks really nice inside.

It does seem too nice to put in a shed, unless the shed is a cozy man cave too. It's a beauty. However, the Yosemite is a steel stove inside with a cast iron jacket. It's fine to heat it up normally.

 

[illini81]

What is on the outside of the chimney? If there's any wood or combustibles within 2" (often the case) then you have to insulate the liner.

Here is a pic of the chimney. I would like to insulate, I'm just not sure it'll be possible. On the plus side, 1. this stove will not be run that often, and 2. I'm going to improve the chimney relative to what the prior stove was running on. If I can figure out how to insulate it though, I will. Just not sure how it's possible with the dimensions of the clay tiles (11" X 6.5").

 

[illini81]

If you care about keeping that little stove looking nice like that, then always heat it slowly or that porcelain in a few years will pop off, chip and flake. Stove looks in real good shape except for a few bricks, and they’re not bad. Seems like their bricks don’t last long. Easy enough to replace with better bricks, even modifying the new ones to match the factory bricks.

Yep! If you try and warm that stove/shed too quick with the shed being uninsulated that nice finish won’t last long. Stoves like that, abused ones, are seen on CL all the time...even some that aren’t abused have flaking finishes. If you treat it right it should last. Firebox looks really nice inside.

Thanks for the tips! I've never had a porcelain finish, so that's really helpful to know. There are some existing chips, but they're not too bad. I'll definitely be careful with the stove temps.