Wood stove is direct connect - okay to use?

[Amin1992]

Hi guys. Just bought a home with a Heatilator wood stove insert where a fireplace used to be. Had a chimney sweep come to check it out and clean it.

He said the flue does not run all the way to the top of the chimney but instead ends mid way up. He said they could install a flue all the way up for $2k. My heart sank and I declined.

After reading online it sounds like this is what's called a Direct Connect.

Im not going to be using this insert to heat my home. It's in our small 150 sq ft den. I plan on just burning some wood during parties and on the weekends most likely.

Am I okay to just use this system as it is and get the chimney swept once a year?

Thanks for the tips

 

[Bad LP]

Short answer.

No.

 

[Amin1992]

Short answer.

No.

Why exactly? I'm reading online it needs cleaned more often and doesn't have as good a draft but how is it any worst than a traditional fireplace?

Could I install a liner myself? What's the typical cost to have a professional do it?

 

[spudman99]

One reason is technical. Every fireplace is designed to work with specific draft measures to ensure a clean and complete burn. Such draft typically runs on a 6" liner. There is much more volume in the old unlined chimney, which at the higher levels is cooler and thus has lower velocity. This could result in an insufficient draft - especially on start up and end of burns. Lack of draft is a cause of chimney fires and is not a good thing. Just my initial thoughts.

 

[bholler]

Well yes a direct connect is to code if done right. But it is next to impossible to do it right. First your existing chimney needs to be up to code which a very small percentage are. Then the volume of the clay liner needs to be less than 3x the volume of the stove outlet. Most fireplace flues are more than that. If all that is right you then need to figure out how to positively attach the stub of liner to your clay liner.

 

[kennyp2339]

I would think it would be ok to run as is, as long as its been inspected by the licensed sweep you should be good to go, but keep in mind things may not run as optimal as they could, and like you already said, it will need to be cleaned more.
Things the sweep would look for when inspecting / cleaning the chimney are - masonry clearances (2" to any combustible surface) clean flue tiles (no cracks, good mortar joints) a clean plate, (yes the smoke runs up the partial liner, but then hits the colder flue tiles and the velocity of the smoke may slow down and condense easier, forming creosote which then can peal off and drop below the lined portion onto a plate that in the smoke shelf area of the fireplace, if it isn't cleaned then you have sitting fuel than can ignite and burn in excess of 2000deg f.
Slammer installs are the illegal installs, those are a fireplace insert or wood stove with just the bare stove collar under the chimney.

 

[Amin1992]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I got a quote from the original sweep for $2000 to update flue, and a second sweep company came by and said $2800!

Whats a normal price for this? I was thinking under $1k but maybe I'm way off.

Thanks everyone.

 

[bholler]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I got a quote from the original sweep for $2000 to update flue, and a second sweep company came by and said $2800!

Whats a normal price for this? I was thinking under $1k but maybe I'm way off.

Thanks everyone.

Without knowing the details it is hard to say but neither of those prices are way out of line. No way it will be under 1000. That is about the cost of the materials I would use on an average install

 

[barnaclebob]

I think if its just s liner that ends halfway up you will get creosote or ash falling between the liner and the chimney when you sweep unless those gaps are sealed.

Is that a concern experts?

 

[bholler]

I think if its just s liner that ends halfway up you will get creosote or ash falling between the liner and the chimney when you sweep unless those gaps are sealed.

Is that a concern experts?

Absolutely.

 

[Bad LP]

I was traveling on the road but how will it be cleaned?

 

[jas702]

Does your chimney have a clay liner? My house was built in 1972, The previous owner put in an insert long before we moved in, and at the time was up to code , metal flue to first terracotta liner of the chimney. I burned wood for a year(3 cords) then called local sweep to clean chimney. He wouldn't touch it because it wasn't up to current code. Wanted 3k for stainless liner. I did some research, looked down chimney with camera on a rope (no broken tiles or excessive build up) and burned wood 4 more years with no problems, at my own risk. Don't burn junk wet wood, let it run hot for 1-2 hours per week, use those creosote logs once or twice a season (slow, damper closed fires make more creosote). My chimney is on exterior wall, If I had a chimney fire it wouldn't burn down house.

 

[EbS-P]

Here is how I would approach it. Let’s say you decide to leave it and burn it and maintain it each year . I’m going to use a rough number of 250$ a year for cleaning. It’s a dirty messy job I would not want to do it my self. Wood burns and every year your sweeps suggests you install that full length liner
On the other overhand you pay 2100$ for new liner and a chimney brush and clean it yourself. (I have no clue how easy the heatalators are to clean but this is just a hypothetical argument as top down with a brush or bottom up with a soot eater might not be mess free it sure beats pulling the insert out). You break even after 8 years of using it the whole time having the peace of mind it’s done right. It may even burn better.

I used alcohol burners in a fireplace in place of wood that was probably not up to code for several years ( parties and weekends ) until I decided to commit the money and fix it right with a new stove and liner. Yes your install it meets code in USA (I don’t believe this install method meets code in Canada please correct me if I’m wrong). Yes you can keep using it but at an increased risk of a chimney fire. Some official body has to say the risk is or is not large enough to address via code. We get to manage all the risks we take ourselves.

Just my thoughts, Evan.

 

[Hogwildz]

Get yourself a wood insert, line to the top, enjoy the heat in the home, instead of sending it up to the wild blue yonder.

 

[bholler]

Get yourself a wood insert, line to the top, enjoy the heat in the home, instead of sending it up to the wild blue yonder.

They have an insert that is hooked up with a direct connect

 

[bholler]

Does your chimney have a clay liner? My house was built in 1972, The previous owner put in an insert long before we moved in, and at the time was up to code , metal flue to first terracotta liner of the chimney. I burned wood for a year(3 cords) then called local sweep to clean chimney. He wouldn't touch it because it wasn't up to current code. Wanted 3k for stainless liner. I did some research, looked down chimney with camera on a rope (no broken tiles or excessive build up) and burned wood 4 more years with no problems, at my own risk. Don't burn junk wet wood, let it run hot for 1-2 hours per week, use those creosote logs once or twice a season (slow, damper closed fires make more creosote). My chimney is on exterior wall, If I had a chimney fire it wouldn't burn down house.

What makes you think a chimney fire in a chimney on an exterior wall can't cause a structure fire? They absolutely can and do. If you are running a direct connect the only way to do it safely is to have the stove pulled out every year the stub of liner pulled and everything cleaned out. We typically charge 250 to 300 to do this because it is a real pita and takes a long time

 

[Bad LP]

Here is how I would approach it. Let’s say you decide to leave it and burn it and maintain it each year . I’m going to use a rough number of 250$ a year for cleaning. It’s a dirty messy job I would not want to do it my self. Wood burns and every year your sweeps suggests you install that full length liner
On the other overhand you pay 2100$ for new liner and a chimney brush and clean it yourself. (I have no clue how easy the heatalators are to clean but this is just a hypothetical argument as top down with a brush or bottom up with a soot eater might not be mess free it sure beats pulling the insert out). You break even after 8 years of using it the whole time having the peace of mind it’s done right. It may even burn better.

I used alcohol burners in a fireplace in place of wood that was probably not up to code for several years ( parties and weekends ) until I decided to commit the money and fix it right with a new stove and liner. Yes your install it meets code in USA (I don’t believe this install method meets code in Canada please correct me if I’m wrong). Yes you can keep using it but at an increased risk of a chimney fire. Some official body has to say the risk is or is not large enough to address via code. We get to manage all the risks we take ourselves.

Just my thoughts, Evan.

Roofs burn great. The fire can breech the bricks thru a bad joint on the structure side.

 

[Hogwildz]

They have an insert that is hooked up with a direct connect

I misread and only heatilator registered in my mind. Missed the insert part.

 

[bholler]

I misread and only heatilator registered in my mind. Missed the insert part.

We all do it sometimes

 

[Amin1992]

Thanks everyone for the help.

Can I ask, and if this is inept let me know, but could I buy the liner/flue myself and install myself to save some money?

I'm completely able to get on the roof, and am handy (work on cars, have done a lot of DIY myself on the home, etc).

I guess my biggest concern is attaching the new stainless flue to the flue that is already on the insert (not sure how I would get there to attach it?

Would it involve welding? Or can this all be done with tools and sealants? Are there any guides online?

If I could get the parts and such for under $1k I would do this today!

Thanks again.

 

[bholler]

Thanks everyone for the help.

Can I ask, and if this is inept let me know, but could I buy the liner/flue myself and install myself to save some money?

I'm completely able to get on the roof, and am handy (work on cars, have done a lot of DIY myself on the home, etc).

I guess my biggest concern is attaching the new stainless flue to the flue that is already on the insert (not sure how I would get there to attach it?

Would it involve welding? Or can this all be done with tools and sealants? Are there any guides online?

If I could get the parts and such for under $1k I would do this today!

Thanks again.

Yes you can do it yourself if you are comfortable with that. And no welding I would just run all new. And make sure you insulate the liner. You also need to know the size of your existing clay liner if it is 11x11 it will be easy 7x11 you will probably need an oval liner

 

[Amin1992]

Yes you can do it yourself if you are comfortable with that. And no welding I would just run all new. And make sure you insulate the liner. You also need to know the size of your existing clay liner if it is 11x11 it will be easy 7x11 you will probably need an oval liner

Thanks! I found a few youtube videos that make it seem not so hard.

Can you tell at all from this one photo the sweeps gave me? This is from above, showing the terra cotta chimney and the stainless steel flue ending way below.

Also any idea how I can find out what size stainless flue I need? It's a Heatilator ECO-WINS18. Thanks again.

Any idea how I attach to the wood stove insert if it's way up the chimney? How do i get in there?

 

[bholler]

Thanks! I found a few youtube videos that make it seem not so hard.

Can you tell at all from this one photo the sweeps gave me? This is from above, showing the terra cotta chimney and the stainless steel flue ending way below.

Also any idea how I can find out what size stainless flue I need? It's a Heatilator ECO-WINS18. Thanks again.

Any idea how I attach to the wood stove insert if it's way up the chimney? How do i get in there?

Looks like a 7x11 which makes things more difficult. You will need a 6" liner or equivilant oval

 

[Amin1992]

Looks like a 7x11 which makes things more difficult. You will need a 6" liner or equivilant oval

Thanks. Just more difficult because it's tighter? Do I just really need to shove it down?

And 6" is the size for the Heatilator ECO WINS 18?

 

[bholler]

Thanks. Just more difficult because it's tighter? Do I just really need to shove it down?

And 6" is the size for the Heatilator ECO WINS 18?

More difficult because it means you need an oval liner which costs more and is harder to work with. And yes I am pretty sure your stove is 6" just measure the outlet it needs to be that size