Wood Stove recommendations for Southern CO mountain cabin at 9750 elevation.

[JAB]

The cabin is 1350 ft2 main floor plus has a basement and loft with dormers. The ceilings are pretty high at around 11' on the main floor plus the stove will go in the living room with a vaulted ceiling up to around 25'. I will mostly be burning aspen, fir, spruce. We will have propane heat as well but want to heat as much as possible with the wood stove. I have a VC Encore that I installed last year in January and it works really well for our central Texas home. I also have some 6" chimney pipe on hand, so could save a few thousand dollars if I stay with a 6" pipe. Here are the stoves I am considering:

VC Defiant
BK KE40
PE Alderlea T6
Lopi Liberty

I am open to other suggestions, but really think a big firebox is important so I am leaning towards the BK KE40. I really like our VC Encore and the top load feature so wouldn't mind the Defiant at 3.2 cf firebox but i am afraid it will require more reloads than I prefer. I am burning aspen in our VC Encore right now and it is only getting around 8 hours of burn time before needing a reload. (Granted I have not had an entire season with this stove) I love the BK KE40 firebox size and reported burn times, but would need to go with 8" stove/chimney pipe. The stove prices are all within a few hundred dollars of each other so that is pretty much a wash. I don't have any experience with the PE non-cat stoves but they look good on brochure....but only a 3.0 cf firebox. The Lopi Liberty has a 3.65 cf firebox and can use a 6" pipe but is only rated at 70% efficiency for HHV and is my least favorite style (but still would be OK). I also priced out a Green Mountain 80, but it also requires a 8" exhaust pipe so I think the KE40 wins out between those two (except GM80 looks better) if I am going to 8" pipe.

Any input or suggestions are appreciated...especially from owners of these wood stoves.
Thanks!
John

 

[begreen]

The BK 40 requires an 8" flue. The Princess takes 6".

 

[begreen]

Is this cabin full-time occupied, or occasionally? Does it have an alternate source of heat? Where will the stove be located, basement or main floor?

If main floor and full time occupied, some of these stoves may be oversized. Is the cabin at a high altitude or in a particularly cold area, poorly insulated or with tons of windows?

 

[JAB]

The BK 40 requires an 8" flue. The Princess takes 6".

I looked at the princess but was concerned with the 2.9 cf firebox. I guess I should price out a princess to compare as well since the burn times on low are much longer than the VC Defiant or others.

 

[JAB]

Is this cabin full-time occupied, or occasionally? Does it have an alternate source of heat? Where will the stove be located, basement or main floor?

If main floor and full time occupied, some of these stoves may be oversized. Is the cabin at a high altitude or in a particularly cold area, poorly insulated or with tons of windows?

To start we will only be at the cabin part time in cold seasons, but shoulder seasons there are all year long. In winter we will only be for a few weeks at a time for now. Eventually we would like to live full time in the cabin...but that's probably at least 10 years away. The wood stove will go in the living room on the main floor. We will have propane and/or electric heaters in basement, bedrooms and bathroom. Cabin is at 9750 feet elevation. On average the winters there are not too cold....highs in the 20's with lows in the teens to single digits...but obviously can get below freezing with cold fronts. It is easy to lose power as well, especially with lots of wind which isn't uncommon. Living room area will have a very large volume with over 25' ceiling and will have large windows plus gable windows. No plans to heat the basement with the wood stove, mostly the main floor and the loft. We haven't insulated the walls yet but has 2x6 walls we will most likely insulate ourselves and not get spray foam. We will have ceiling fans in open loft area and vaulted living room area to help move hot air back down. I have attached generic layout. We have the frame up and roof on with house wrap and will frame up the rest this coming summer. I want to get the wood stove installed late this spring so we can work in there more comfortably. Cabin is 45 x 30.

 

[JAB]

I looked at the princess but was concerned with the 2.9 cf firebox. I guess I should price out a princess to compare as well since the burn times on low are much longer than the VC Defiant or others.

I looked into the PE Alderlea T6 based on previous posts on here by you and others...how does the non-cat EBT work for your setup? How long of burn times can one expect (sans the obvious factors of type of wood, MC, etc.).

 

[EbS-P]

Heating up a cold cabin takes so much more heat than maintaining temp. The BKs are great for low and slow but don’t have the top end output.

If it were me I’d air seal air seal air seal, insulate, add a minisplit maybe?? (Internet and the possibility of remotely turning it on would be nice) , and chose the t6 from that list.

 

[JAB]

Heating up a cold cabin takes so much more heat than maintaining temp. The BKs are great for low and slow but don’t have the top end output.

If it were me I’d air seal air seal air seal, insulate, add a minisplit maybe?? (Internet and the possibility of remotely turning it on would be nice) , and chose the t6 from that list.

Thanks for the input. I will cost out the T6 as well...our local TX dealer doesn't handle PE, but a dealer closer to our cabin in CO does. We will have supplemental propane and electric heat, so that will help, but we have an abundance of wood so will lean on the wood stove for heat as much as possible. We do have fiber in our park and we also have starlink RV that we use now when camping on our lots so remote tuning is feasible. We plan to insulate as well as possible, just not going with spray foam so we can save on labor and do it ourselves. We do want to eventually stay through the winter so will get as much r factor as we can squeeze in our 2x6 walls and will make things as airtight as possible. Once we are at the cabin we can keep the wood stove running so heating up a cold cabin would only be for the first day of arrival during a trip.

 

[EbS-P]

Thanks for the input. I will cost out the T6 as well...our local TX dealer doesn't handle PE, but a dealer closer to our cabin in CO does. We will have supplemental propane and electric heat, so that will help, but we have an abundance of wood so will lean on the wood stove for heat as much as possible. We do have fiber in our park and we also have starlink RV that we use now when camping on our lots so remote tuning is feasible. We plan to insulate as well as possible, just not going with spray foam so we can save on labor and do it ourselves. We do want to eventually stay through the winter so will get as much r factor as we can squeeze in our 2x6 walls and will make things as airtight as possible. Once we are at the cabin we can keep the wood stove running so heating up a cold cabin would only be for the first day of arrival during a trip.

I might consider the DIY froth packs for spay foam. Just for air sealing. I’ve never used it it’s expensive but it’s an option. Do it the best you can the first time.
Think about stove placement so and outside air kit could be easily utilized. Especially if it’s really well sealed. Build a wood shed. And I guess you kinda have to think about what conditions you want to size the stove for. The sole heat sources in the cold windy dead of winter arrive at a cold cabin or size to for 80-90% off the heating needs with propane to make up the 10-20% when needed

 

[begreen]

I looked at the princess but was concerned with the 2.9 cf firebox. I guess I should price out a princess to compare as well since the burn times on low are much longer than the VC Defiant or others.

The long burn times are not helpful if the heat loss of the house exceeds that low BTU output.

 

[begreen]

I looked into the PE Alderlea T6 based on previous posts on here by you and others...how does the non-cat EBT work for your setup? How long of burn times can one expect (sans the obvious factors of type of wood, MC, etc.).

Burn times will vary with any stove, cat or non-cat, with the demand for heat. The T6 will burn around 12 hrs when the heat demand is low and 8 hrs. when pushed. This is the same for the Lopi Liberty and also the same for the shorter time in a BK Princess when being pushed hard for heat. You can burn through a full load of firewood quickly when pushed really hard in any of these stoves.

Until the cabin is insulated, the demand is going to be exceptionally high due to the huge amount of BTUS it takes to warm up a cold space. This can be helped with a boost from the primary heating system so that the wood stove is not bearing the brunt of the work. Once the place is well sealed and insulated, the heating task gets a lot easier. Another factor is what temp the cabin is kept at while unoccupied. It takes a ton more heat to bring the space, walls, furniture, and all the mass of the interior up to say 70º from 40º, and much less to take it from 60º to 70º.

This makes it challenging to make a recommendation. The stoves listed are large and that heat will be needed at first, but once the place is insulated and then fully occupied 24/7 they will be overkill. The BK Princess may be the best stove to straddle this range, assuming that the propane furnace will be supplementing a cold house warm up.

Another caveat. At that altitude, compensation will need to be made for the flue system. The flue will need to be taller in the thin air. That may cut some stoves out of contention.

 

[marty319]

I know you want to save some bucks but should rethink the sprayfoam insulation,especially if you plan on living there.

 

[JAB]

Burn times will vary with any stove, cat or non-cat, with the demand for heat. The T6 will burn around 12 hrs when the heat demand is low and 8 hrs. when pushed. This is the same for the Lopi Liberty and also the same for the shorter time in a BK Princess when being pushed hard for heat. You can burn through a full load of firewood quickly when pushed really hard in any of these stoves.

Until the cabin is insulated, the demand is going to be exceptionally high due to the huge amount of BTUS it takes to warm up a cold space. This can be helped with a boost from the primary heating system so that the wood stove is not bearing the brunt of the work. Once the place is well sealed and insulated, the heating task gets a lot easier. Another factor is what temp the cabin is kept at while unoccupied. It takes a ton more heat to bring the space, walls, furniture, and all the mass of the interior up to say 70º from 40º, and much less to take it from 60º to 70º.

This makes it challenging to make a recommendation. The stoves listed are large and that heat will be needed at first, but once the place is insulated and then fully occupied 24/7 they will be overkill. The BK Princess may be the best stove to straddle this range, assuming that the propane furnace will be supplementing a cold house warm up.

Another caveat. At that altitude, compensation will need to be made for the flue system. The flue will need to be taller in the thin air. That may cut some stoves out of contention.

That is great information. I guess I am not as concerned with burn times since I don't have an issue reloading whenever even during the night. I mostly would like to use wood to heat as much of the cabin as possible which is why I was looking at the KE40. The plan right now is to have propane room heaters but no central furnace. The goal is to insulate the cabin this next fall so we would only be burning in the shoulder and summer seasons without insulation. Without a lot of radiant heat or another heat source cabins around there stay really cold all day, especially for us since we are in the woods...so not looking for 70º but want a warmer house to work in while completing the electrical and plumbing. Looking to install the wood stove first...at least in a safe temporary setup. But I don't want to do the chimney and roof twice (unless I have too) so the 6" vs 8" flue dilemma if the KE40 was needed. But you have helped ease me away from getting the KE 40 and having to upgrade to a 8" flue. I was worried about the room volume and windows where the stove will be located versus ft2, but it sounds like we could pump out plenty of BTUs with a 3 cf firebox for the space we are heating...and we have lots of wood so reloads really aren't an issue. The dried aspen/spruce/fir wood we use starts quickly with or without a bed of coals, burns faster than hardwood, but is easier to split and stack. There are other options available that can supplement our main area heat if needed which could be added later if wood stove by itself isn't enough heat at times. We do have electricity and eventually will have at least half the house power on a standby generator. But I would prefer to use the wood stove to generate as much of the house heat as possible. Until we move there full-time we generally go for 1-2 week trips so when there we will keep the house in the 60 - 70 range and should just have the initial warmup. I guess this means I need to get that woodshed built and filled...then I can just run the stove harder and reload when additional heat is needed.

So sticking with the 6" flue and being OK with the 8 - 12 hour reload time do you still think the BK Princess is the better option versus the PE T6? We are happy with our VC Encore which has similar reload times so the wife would be comfortable with a VC Defiant. I will get a cost for the princess and the PE T6...but they should be in the same ballpark as the other similar sized stoves. It seems that I can't go wrong with any of these options, unless I get a lemon. I just better get ready to reload every 8 hours if we need a lot of heat.

We will have around 18' of double wall stove pipe and 12' of chimney pipe so around 30' flue so should have a good draw...maybe too much and will need a damper. I should find that out late spring/early summer after install.

Thanks for the input...very helpful.

 

[JAB]

I know you want to save some bucks but should rethink the sprayfoam insulation,especially if you plan on living there.

We haven't decided for sure on the insulation. I guess I should cost out both options and compare. Might be worth the extra cost...help keep house warm and hold heat longer.

 

[begreen]

The BK Ashford 40 is closer to the PE T6 in regard to heating. Both have cast iron jackets outside of their inner steel stove core. This provides a softer convective heat, much like a soapstone stove. The Ashford will provide longer, low-output burns. The T6 has a higher top-end output. Both can be cooked on, but the T6 is much more convenient for this purpose and has lower maintenance. As a catalytic stove, the Ashford has more parts, mechanisms, and seals, but you are used to this with the Encore. Comparatively, the Ashford is lower maintenance than the VC stove and a better design.

(And yes, get a well-ventilated woodshed built and filled asap)

 

[JAB]

The BK Ashford 40 is closer to the PE T6 in regard to heating. Both have cast iron jackets outside of their inner steel stove core. This provides a softer convective heat, much like a soapstone stove. The Ashford will provide longer, low-output burns. The T6 has a higher top-end output. Both can be cooked on, but the T6 is much more convenient for this purpose and has lower maintenance. As a catalytic stove, the Ashford has more parts, mechanisms, and seals, but you are used to this with the Encore. Comparatively, the Ashford is lower maintenance than the VC stove and a better design.

(And yes, get a well-ventilated woodshed built and filled asap)

I almost got the Ashford, but while deciding the floor unit was sold to someone else but I did get a good look at it. It was gray vs black which is what we wanted. Also looked at the Rockport from Lopi but it wasn't black either so ended up ordering the Encore, partly so we could cook on it if we ever wanted/needed. I guess I should take another, closer look at these stoves too since I have a bit of time before I need to order the stove. I like the T6 design and cooking shelves. The higher top end output might be good for our space and easier maintenance is a plus...especially since we will be working the CO stove a LOT more than our VC Encore in south-central TX. I didn't realize you can cook on the Ashford. I was looking for the largest stoves, but I guess any around 3 cf will work for our space which opens up more options. My wife likes the look of the ashford and the T6 so I better price those out and compare. We like the op load on the VC, but can get by without it. I like the look of the handles on the ashford. Ours on the VC seem a bit on the wimpy side and I would prefer a larger handle. Thanks for the input.