Woodstock Ideal Steel or Jotul F55?

[Texas123]

I think I will have to give the Blaze King Ashford 30 a look as well.

I would choose the Ideal Steel and here are my reasons. Here in this part of Texas we have had power outages for up to two days in the ice storms. I have a Jotul 500 as the largest stove I could rear exit fit into my modified fireplace chimney.
When the power goes out in the winters and your stove is the only thing between life and death, you should want the largest BTU stove you can install.
As the users have said in the past, you can always build a smaller fire in the larger stove, not a larger one in a smaller stove.
As of this moment over 4,000 homes are still without power here in Erath County of Texas.

 

[Woody Stover]

30 hours between reloads with hardwoods. Think about that. Once a day. You load at night and walk right past it in the morning as you leave for work

Better also mention that to load once a day, you have to live where it's 50 degrees outside pretty much all winter, not where it's actually cold?
Hell, I last loaded the stove 20 hrs. ago with Black Cherry...you should buy a 1.5 cu.ft. Keystone to heat your 1800 sq.ft. house in central WI from the basement.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

I too had a heritage for 30 cords and upgraded to a proper cat stove for longer burns. I could get 8-10 hours just barely from the heritage but in the same house get 24 hours from my cat stove. You gave two options, of those get the IS. If you are willing to look at other brands you really must consider the bk offerings. 30 hours between reloads with hardwoods. Think about that. Once a day. You load at night and walk right past it in the morning as you leave for work. Come home and it’s still hot. Then, sometime later that night you can load her up.

I would like to look at the Blaze King Ashford 30. My understanding is that there were some problems with a smell coming from the stove. Hopefully that has been resolved. It's great to hear that they are working to fix the issue.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

@Newburnerwisconsin what is your chimney situation? A BK stove operating on a thermostat NEEDS a straight up chimney, installed within the envelope of the home.

Thanks. Glad to know that. I have a Duratech stainless. I will speak with a dealer about that.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

Better also mention that to load once a day, you have to live where it's 50 degrees outside pretty much all winter, not where it's actually cold?
Hell, I last loaded the stove 20 hrs. ago with Black Cherry...you should buy a 1.5 cu.ft. Keystone to heat your 1800 sq.ft. house in central WI from the basement.

I am just looking for a 10 to 14 hour burn. It gets cold here. I don't expect that kind of performance all winter.

 

[drz1050]

Blaze King Ashford here... If I did it over again, and if I had the room/ hearth R value, I might lean more towards the Ideal Steel. It's larger, burns hotter, and has a better ash system. The Ashford beats it for low & slow burns without touching anything.
Ashford only requires ember protection for the hearth, Ideal Steel needs R 0.5 If memory serves.

 

[Knots]

I have the f55 and certainly enjoy it for my application. Love the simplicity. Depending on how you define burn time 10 hours of steady heat hasnt been my experience. Plenty of coals for a relight at 10 or 12 hours....yes indeed.

This is my experience also. I like my F55 but if you truly want a 10-hour burn, depending on your definition, you might be disappointed.

 

[sutphenj]

Begreen - good reminder on the forum rules....thanks for posting. Boy does it sure feel however that despite the guidelines the forum has long been slanted or swayed to a specific brand.

 

[sutphenj]

I too had a heritage for 30 cords and upgraded to a proper cat stove for longer burns. I could get 8-10 hours just barely from the heritage but in the same house get 24 hours from my cat stove. You gave two options, of those get the IS. If you are willing to look at other brands you really must consider the bk offerings. 30 hours between reloads with hardwoods. Think about that. Once a day. You load at night and walk right past it in the morning as you leave for work. Come home and it’s still hot. Then, sometime later that night you can load her up.

On a 30 hour cycle do you have an estimate on STT on hours 5, 10, 20 and 30? I tend to evaluate in STT mainly because when in the teens for example i know my heat pump will kick on when the STT dips to 300.

 

[KennyK]

Ideal Steel needs R 0.5 If memory serves.

Close - Ideal Steel needs a hearth R value of 0.4

 

[sutphenj]

Close - Ideal Steel needs a hearth R value of 0.4

Thats pretty low....i wonder if a glass pad would qualify for that?

 

[Sconnie Burner]

I am just looking for a 10 to 14 hour burn. It gets cold here. I don't expect that kind of performance all winter.

Depending on your constriction, sq footage, and layout you should easily get that out of the IS. I typically am loading 1 am and 1 pm load. If the suns out and its above 25 or so I skip the am load and let the sun do the job. I just bump the air down to save coals for the pm load. Open the air wide open for 10 mins or so and hotcoals ready for a reload.

I'm heating about 3100 sq ft new construction from an unfinished, but fully insulated lookout basement (half above ground on 2 sides. But I have a prime stove location to get the heat to the centrally located stairs and a good hvac setup where I run just the fan to move/circulate the warm air. No problem maintaing upstairs main living area around 72-74, and bedrooms in the 69-70 range. I can even keep those temps down into the single digits below 0. I can also load it in the upper 30s lower 40s with softer woods and dial it back and not have to open windows because its too hot.

Its a great stove with great control. I believe they even have a 6 month try it out and return if if you don't like it policy. And have HEARD they don't start that 6 months until in burning season. (May want to make a phone call to verify that) So if you buy late spring or summer the clock essentially won't start till like October. Its woth a call to them to just chat. They are a wealth of knowledge and never seem inconvenienced by a call or multiple calls. And warranty and standing behind their products are second to none from reading on other forums and reviews.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

Thanks everyone for sharing your experience and knowledge. It is really appreciated. I just want to make the right decision for my family. I bought the wrong stove a few years ago and I want to avoid this problem again. All the stoves mentioned by special features and qualities I like.

 

[Highbeam]

On a 30 hour cycle do you have an estimate on STT on hours 5, 10, 20 and 30? I tend to evaluate in STT mainly because when in the teens for example i know my heat pump will kick on when the STT dips to 300.

The stove top temperature stays constant all the way to the end since the stove temperature is controlled thermostatically. During long burns, the primary heat source is the cat right below the stove top that is humming along at 1000 degrees. I stopped measuring stove top temperature as a result of this and only have the stove top paint scratches as a reminder.

Long burns mean low output but a steady low output for 30 hours. Plenty of heat for my home 95% of the winter. When it's not enough I drop to 12 hour partial reloads which is more than enough heat down into single digit temperatures.

I own a bk so I know what it can do. I had the same heritage as the op and it had decent performance for a noncat. If you want long burns and more control then a cat stove is how you get it. Only two companies currently make them with excellent performance specs so of course the forums will be full of happy people that have made the upgrade.

 

[sigruts192]

Ive had a princess and IS in the same spot and same flue.
Although princess isnt the ashford, it is close.

Ive only burned one year with the IS, but it outperformed the princess.

I get the same burn times when on very low, but much hotter and longer burns when I need to pump the heat with the secondaries firing.

 

[sutphenj]

Than

The stove top temperature stays constant all the way to the end since the stove temperature is controlled thermostatically. During long burns, the primary heat source is the cat right below the stove top that is humming along at 1000 degrees. I stopped measuring stove top temperature as a result of this and only have the stove top paint scratches as a reminder.

Long burns mean low output but a steady low output for 30 hours. Plenty of heat for my home 95% of the winter. When it's not enough I drop to 12 hour partial reloads which is more than enough heat down into single digit temperatures.

I own a bk so I know what it can do. I had the same heritage as the op and it had decent performance for a noncat. If you want long burns and more control then a cat stove is how you get it. Only two companies currently make them with excellent performance specs so of course the forums will be full of happy people that have made the upgrade.

Thanks for the feedback this helps some. I'm having a hard time for some reason trying to conceptualize stove temps between cat and non cat relative to my application. My only data point in my house is I know the heat pump will kick on if it's 20 degrees outside and my STT is 300. Maybe what I'm trying to get at is a 400 STT in a non cat equate to say an 8hr constant burn in a BK?

 

[begreen]

What is most important is the btu output from the stove at the 8 hr mark and whether that exceeds or undershoots the heat loss rate for the house at a given outside temperature.

IIRC reports were that the Heritage wasted a lot of heat up the chimney. I was always amazed at the flue temps being reported for this stove. Typically our stove flue temp runs about 100º under the stove top temp. FWIW, stove top temps above 400F at hour 8 in a non-cat 3 cu ft stove are possible.

 

[sutphenj]

What is most important is the btu output from the stove at the 8 hr mark and whether that exceeds or undershoots the heat loss rate for the house at a given outside temperature.

IIRC reports were that the Heritage wasted a lot of heat up the chimney. I was always amazed at the flue temps being reported for this stove. Typically our stove flue temp runs about 100º under the stove top temp. FWIW, stove top temps above 400F at hour 8 in a non-cat 3 cu ft stove are possible.

I'm lucky to have 400 in my f55 at the 3 hour mark. I'm burning 15-20% wood but my draft is quite strong (25ft pipe) and still haven't put a damper in yet.

 

[begreen]

I'm lucky to have 400 in my f55 at the 3 hour mark. I'm burning 15-20% wood but my draft is quite strong (25ft pipe) and still haven't put a damper in yet.

It might be draft issue if the chimney is tall. For us, it's more relative to outside temps and the house heat loss. Our place has a lot of glass area which creates a large heat loss. I have to push the stove harder when it's 25 outside than when it's 40F. That increases wood consumption and decrease burn time. With temps around 25 I will be reloading every 8hrs. or when the STT drops below about 400F. At 40F it's every 12 hrs.. and the STT can drop to 300F without the room temp dropping below 72F.

The other factor is we're getting older. For years my wife was comfortable with the house at 69F. Now she is adding layers when it's below 72F and prefers 75F in the living room.

 

[sutphenj]

It might be draft issue if the chimney is tall. For us, it's more relative to outside temps and the house heat loss. Our place has a lot of glass area which creates a large heat loss. I have to push the stove harder when it's 25 outside than when it's 40F. That increases wood consumption and decrease burn time. With temps around 25 I will be reloading every 8hrs. or when the STT drops below about 400F. At 40F it's every 12 hrs.. and the STT can drop to 300F without the room temp dropping below 72F.

Your experience mimics what i was hoping to acheive at my place. We have a lot of glass along with a tall ceiling in the stove room. When it's 25 out I'm reloading every 3-4 hours to maintain room temp of 70-72 which seems quite a bit off spec relative to the firebox size.

 

[begreen]

The best solution may be to directly address the heat losses in the room and house. Before I tightened up this old house I had two stoves running when it got down below 25F and I could barely keep up. Eventually I switched one to a pellet stove for longer heating between reloads, and I still had to have the other stove going to keep up. What we really need are insulated curtains or shades, but that hasn't happened here yet.

 

[Highbeam]

Than

Thanks for the feedback this helps some. I'm having a hard time for some reason trying to conceptualize stove temps between cat and non cat relative to my application. My only data point in my house is I know the heat pump will kick on if it's 20 degrees outside and my STT is 300. Maybe what I'm trying to get at is a 400 STT in a non cat equate to say an 8hr constant burn in a BK?

The stove stop will be over 400 for 30 hours. The cat is like 1000 degrees! The rest of the stove will be cooler than a noncat at 400 though.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree by worrying about stove top temperature. You have more data, you know how much wood you're burning each day and you can assume you'll use about 25% less to do the same job with one of the good cat stoves. Since you know how much wood they hold you can estimate the number of reloads per day.

From a performance point of view, there's nothing a noncat can do that a cat stove can't do better. The cat stoves are often ugly, more complicated to run, and if you choose a low burn rate the fire show goes away. I own a cheap noncat as well and it performs as expected, plenty of heat but much shorter burntimes.

 

[Highbeam]

Your experience mimics what i was hoping to acheive at my place. We have a lot of glass along with a tall ceiling in the stove room. When it's 25 out I'm reloading every 3-4 hours to maintain room temp of 70-72 which seems quite a bit off spec relative to the firebox size.

You're running your current stove like I run my noncat nc30. Three hours between reloads but I aim to hold 700 stove top temps for maximum safe output. This tells us that you're house is losing heat at a high rate and it will be hard for any stove to keep up. A cat stove is pretty awesome to save 25% of fuel but that just means that you'll get 5 hours instead of 4 if the cat stove is the same size as your noncat.

Wood furnaces and boilers have higher output. Two stoves loafing along at medium output is another common strategy for such a high heat load.

 

[begreen]

That is a bit of hyperbole. A cat stove is not 25% more efficient than a good non-cat. It is not going to produce 25% more btus from a given load of wood.

 

[shoot-straight]

I

What cat stove did you buy?

I bought a BK ashford. Cast iron look w a cat.