Woodstock Ideal Steel or Jotul F55?

[Newburnerwisconsin]

I bought a BK ashford. Cast iron look w a cat.

How many sq ft are you heating? Will the Ashford heat 1900 sq. ft. down into the single digits and below zero?

 

[Highbeam]

That is a bit of hyperbole. A cat stove is not 25% more efficient than a good non-cat. It is not going to produce 25% more btus from a given load of wood.

Ah, you assumed. Nobody said the cat stove is 25% more efficient. Instead, switching to a cat stove is well known to reduce wood consumption for full time wood burners by at least 25%. This is due to higher efficiency as well as control of burn rate so you’re not riding that rollercoaster all the time. You would understand if you would ever burn a cat stove yourself instead of playing armchair quarterback! Most of us full time wood heaters ( not part timers) lower consumption by at least a cord or year. It’s been repeated over and over.

In sutphen’s case when he is blowing 3 cf every 3-4 hours he has very little chance of any single stove ever working very efficiently. Every location has extreme weather though and even he would benefit from the ability to burn slower when that lower burn rate would be enough.

 

[Highbeam]

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How many sq ft are you heating? Will the Ashford heat 1900 sq. ft. down into the single digits and below zero?

Nice place! I heat 1700 sf of 1963 built rambler in single digits no problem with my princess. Reload on 12 hour cycles with low btu wood like fir and alder.

Wind and quality of construction have a large effect in heat loss at such low temperatures.

 

[begreen]

Ah, you assumed. Nobody said the cat stove is 25% more efficient. Instead, switching to a cat stove is well known to reduce wood consumption for full time wood burners by at least 25%. This is due to higher efficiency as well as control of burn rate so you’re not riding that rollercoaster all the time. You would understand if you would ever burn a cat stove yourself instead of playing armchair quarterback! Most of us full time wood heaters ( not part timers) lower consumption by at least a cord or year. It’s been repeated over and over.

In sutphen’s case when he is blowing 3 cf every 3-4 hours he has very little chance of any single stove ever working very efficiently. Every location has extreme weather though and even he would benefit from the ability to burn slower when that lower burn rate would be enough.

Ya, just like your armchair assumptions about most non-cat based on one inefficient stone stove. Still, I am heating a larger, old house with about the same amount of wood that cat owners in this area are reporting. Durning mild weather, the cat shines, but in colder weather it's consumption appears on par with a non-cat. Pixie dust may lead to longer burns, but it doesn't lead to such dramatic drops in consumption without other steps taken to reduce house heat loss.

 

[Rearscreen]

I would have to say, my old Hearthstone Mansfield (non cat) probably matched my Progress (cat) as far as wood burned now that I think back. With that said, if I had a choice I'd stick with the PH for it has more features that I like.

 

[sutphenj]

Ah, you assumed. Nobody said the cat stove is 25% more efficient. Instead, switching to a cat stove is well known to reduce wood consumption for full time wood burners by at least 25%. This is due to higher efficiency as well as control of burn rate so you’re not riding that rollercoaster all the time. You would understand if you would ever burn a cat stove yourself instead of playing armchair quarterback! Most of us full time wood heaters ( not part timers) lower consumption by at least a cord or year. It’s been repeated over and over.

In sutphen’s case when he is blowing 3 cf every 3-4 hours he has very little chance of any single stove ever working very efficiently. Every location has extreme weather though and even he would benefit from the ability to burn slower when that lower burn rate would be enough.

Right....I tend to think I would benefit more in the shoulder season maybe. My biggest problem I have is too much draft and excessive heat loss of which I I never knew I really had until I installed a wood. If i can improve performance with a damper with my rear exit install i would be more pleased. That said if there is a cat stove that can throw the same heat for 8 hours that my non cat does in 4 hours I'm intrigued.

 

[drz1050]

How many sq ft are you heating? Will the Ashford heat 1900 sq. ft. down into the single digits and below zero?

I think with that exposed basement wall you'd have a tough time heating your whole place in below zero temps, but like Highbeam said, construction/ insulation/ wind all make a pretty huge difference.

 

[sutphenj]

Also im heating a 1991 built 2,200 square feet home with 700 of that being cathedral ceilings (stove room). 2x6 construction....D log siding slapped on pink foam board with batt insulation in the studs. Double pane windows with storms. Somehow she leaks like no other.

 

[Highbeam]

Ya, just like your armchair assumptions about most non-cat based on one inefficient stone stove. Still, I am heating a larger, old house with about the same amount of wood that cat owners in this area are reporting. Durning mild weather, the cat shines, but in colder weather it's consumption appears on par with a non-cat. Pixie dust may lead to longer burns, but it doesn't lead to such dramatic drops in consumption without other steps taken to reduce house heat loss.

You are only a part time wood burner and let your furnace do the real work so you have no idea about wood consumption for a full time wood heater. Further, in this same home I burned a lopi freedom noncat stove that also gave me data. So your assumptions are again false. Come on bg, move up to a cat stove so you can share your experience too.

 

[sutphenj]

Ya, just like your armchair assumptions about most non-cat based on one inefficient stone stove. Still, I am heating a larger, old house with about the same amount of wood that cat owners in this area are reporting. Durning mild weather, the cat shines, but in colder weather it's consumption appears on par with a non-cat. Pixie dust may lead to longer burns, but it doesn't lead to such dramatic drops in consumption without other steps taken to reduce house heat loss.

This is what leads me to believe a cat would only benefit me in shoulder season.

 

[Highbeam]

Right....I tend to think I would benefit more in the shoulder season maybe. My biggest problem I have is too much draft and excessive heat loss of which I I never knew I really had until I installed a wood. If i can improve performance with a damper with my rear exit install i would be more pleased. That said if there is a cat stove that can throw the same heat for 8 hours that my non cat does in 4 hours I'm intrigued.

I sure am glad I upgraded to a cat stove for 100% of my heating during our 9 month heating season but I would be lying if I told you to expect a cat stove to double the output of a noncat for the same amount of wood.

The good cat stoves minimize the heat wasted up the chimney and they allow you to save fuel by only heating to your desired room temperature but the cat stove can only minimize the losses. Your home is reasonably sized and if you can control your losses to the outdoors through insulation and air sealing to a more reasonable rate, the typical 3 cf cat stove will have enough power to keep you warm during the worst weather while also providing highly efficient heating during lower demands.

Heck, I burn fires to keep my home above 70 when it is 70 degrees outside! Full time heaters get to deal with both extremes.

 

[Highbeam]

This is what leads me to believe a cat would only benefit me in shoulder season.

Higher efficiency and hugely wider range of available heat output settings benefit you anytime you are burning. During full out 100% max output times, the benefit is only about 10% reduction in fuel used which is the difference in epa rated efficiency from a good cat to a noncat. The rest of the year your benefit goes up not only in fuel used but in convenience of long burn times with steady output.

 

[sutphenj]

Higher efficiency and hugely wider range of available heat output settings benefit you anytime you are burning. During full out 100% max output times, the benefit is only about 10% reduction in fuel used which is the difference in epa rated efficiency from a good cat to a noncat. The rest of the year your benefit goes up not only in fuel used but in convenience of long burn times with steady output.

Makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

I too had a heritage for 30 cords and upgraded to a proper cat stove for longer burns. I could get 8-10 hours just barely from the heritage but in the same house get 24 hours from my cat stove. You gave two options, of those get the IS. If you are willing to look at other brands you really must consider the bk offerings. 30 hours between reloads with hardwoods. Think about that. Once a day. You load at night and walk right past it in the morning as you leave for work. Come home and it’s still hot. Then, sometime later that night you can load her up.

The Heritage is no slouch. We run ours six to seven months out of the year. 80 to 90% of our heat comes from that stove. We also have a Lennox lp furnace that runs when the temps dip into the single low teens and single digits. It's a good stove. We need something bigger for our application. Hearthstone has been good to us. I can't complain. I can cut unlimited amounts of wood but for full time burning, we definitely need to look at something much bigger. 3 ft firebox. Etc.

 

[Highbeam]

The Heritage is no slouch. We run ours six to seven months out of the year. 80 to 90% of our heat comes from that stove. We also have a Lennox lp furnace that runs when the temps dip into the single low teens and single digits. It's a good stove. We need something bigger for our application. Hearthstone has been good to us. I can't complain. I can cut unlimited amounts of wood but for full time burning, we definitely need to look at something much bigger. 3 ft firebox. Etc.

They sure are pretty. Keep an eye on the hinges and latches for wear. There are a couple of bigger models like the Mansfield and equinox if you want to stick with hearthstone.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

They sure are pretty. Keep an eye on the hinges and latches for wear. There are a couple of bigger models like the Mansfield and equinox if you want to stick with hearthstone.

Tonight it's 30 f out here and the house is at 71. I am hoping the Blaze King or Woodstock will save me some work, and really crank out the heat when I need it. We had -26 three weeks ago.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

I would have to say, my old Hearthstone Mansfield (non cat) probably matched my Progress (cat) as far as wood burned now that I think back. With that said, if I had a choice I'd stick with the PH for it has more features that I like.

My Hearthstone is a good stove. I just have to reload more often so I am thinking of a stove with a bigger firebox. The Ideal Steel has that big firebox and so does the F55. The Jotul is very simple and has a stainless steel baffle. The Ideal will burn longer but is a little more complex and I will have to buy combustors every 4 years or so. Both offer a cooking tip which the Blaze King Ashford does not. The one issue with Woodstock is my insurance company says I can not install the stove myself. It has to be done by a certified dealer or sweep. So I need a local stove shop to install a stove they don't sell. Not sure if that's going to work out. Talked to the agent today on that.

 

[KennyK]

My Hearthstone is a good stove. I just have to reload more often so I am thinking of a stove with a bigger firebox. The Ideal Steel has that big firebox and so does the F55. The Jotul is very simple and has a stainless steel baffle. The Ideal will burn longer but is a little more complex and I will have to buy combustors every 4 years or so. Both offer a cooking tip which the Blaze King Ashford does not. The one issue with Woodstock is my insurance company says I can not install the stove myself. It has to be done by a certified dealer or sweep. So I need a local stove shop to install a stove they don't sell. Not sure if that's going to work out. Talked to the agent today on that.

I would think that you could hire any certified chimney sweep to install this stove, and that should be fine for your insurance company. I believe an install like this is piece of cake for pro chimney sweeps (though let them know how heavy the stove is as the IS with soapstone liner is quite heavy!), so you wouldn't necessarily have to have a stove shop do it. One of the questions my insurance company asked on their "wood/coal stove burning & supplemental heating questionnaire" was, "Was the unit professionally installed by a licensed contractor, appliance distributor, or licensed expert, and/or inspected by the fire department or building inspector?" I had a certified chimney sweep install my stove (at the same time they installed my liner) and it was inspected, so I was able to answer "yes" to this questions. While we're on the topic, my insurance agent couldn't answer some questions I had about the form (like what to answer in response to if my stove was at least 36 inches to combustibles, which it was not, but it did meet clearances according to the manual), so he called the company directly and they gave me the answers (which to that question was it was fine as long as it met clearances according to the manual and I just had to write that in on the form). Hope this helps!

 

[Knots]

I'm lucky to have 400 in my f55 at the 3 hour mark. I'm burning 15-20% wood but my draft is quite strong (25ft pipe) and still haven't put a damper in yet.

Wow. I have a real strong draft too. I can't imagine trying to burn without a damper. I also taped-off my secondary inlet by ~85%.

My typical burn from cold goes:

-45 minutes to warm up;
-cruise at 550 or so for 3.5 hours;
-ramp down to 400 for 3 hours;
-rake coals forward and reload an hour later.

 

[sutphenj]

Wow. I have a real strong draft too. I can't imagine trying to burn without a damper. I also taped-off my secondary inlet by ~85%.

My typical burn from cold goes:

-45 minutes to warm up;
-cruise at 550 or so for 3.5 hours;
-ramp down to 400 for 3 hours;
-rake coals forward and reload an hour later.

Yeah quite different than my experience thus far. Dealer offered to come over and measure the draft....time to hit him up on that. Guess I'm throwing tons of heat up the chimney. Yikes.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

I have the f55 and certainly enjoy it for my application. Love the simplicity. Depending on how you define burn time 10 hours of steady heat hasnt been my experience. Plenty of coals for a relight at 10 or 12 hours....yes indeed.

In trying to determine useable heat for my application what I haven't been able to find out on the IS for example is at say hour 10 or 12 is the stove top temp 100 degrees or 400 degrees. I hear of long burn times but don't quite understand is the btu (relative to STT) output at the last few hours of the "burn".

That's a very good question on the Ideal Steel. I want a stove that can go 10 hours before I have to refill it. Not have just burning coals. I like the F55. It's very simple and has a stainless steel baffle with a lifetime warranty. I also like the Ideal Steel. Woodstock is having a big problem sourcing combustors right now so I am keeping a eye on that as well. If the Ideal Steel stove top is say 100 degrees at say 11 hours then is it really worth having the cat? You are going to be refilling the stove anyway in a cold climate like mine. (Central Wisconsin) Ideal owners please comment. Especially if you live in a very cold climate.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

Wow. I have a real strong draft too. I can't imagine trying to burn without a damper. I also taped-off my secondary inlet by ~85%.

My typical burn from cold goes:

-45 minutes to warm up;
-cruise at 550 or so for 3.5 hours;
-ramp down to 400 for 3 hours;
-rake coals forward and reload an hour later.

That's not bad for a non cat stove IMO. I have to reload every 4 hours. I think would happy with a 8 or 9 hour cycle. You don't have to buy a combustors and only one set of gaskets to worry about so that's something I need to
consider.

 

[Ashful]

@Newburnerwisconsin what is your chimney situation? A BK stove operating on a thermostat NEEDS a straight up chimney, installed within the envelope of the home.

This is not true. In fact, I’m violating your made-up rule x2. Cite your source, please.

 

[Ashful]

This is what leads me to believe a cat would only benefit me in shoulder season.

For me, the primary benefit is being able to load the stove on my work schedule, not when the stove (prematurely) runs out of wood. I look at the day’s forecast when I load my stoves, and simply set the thermostat to the marks I’ve made on them, corresponding to perfectly consistent 12, 24, or 36 hour burn time. Then I walk away, and come back to a warm stove on coals, ready for a reload after 12, 24, or 36 hours.

The thermostat is a big factor, here. It enables the stove to increase air as the fire wanes, keeping output up in the latter third of the burn cycle. Without that, the long burn times would be less useful, as heat output would be uselessly low late in the burn.

I used to run a few Jotuls. I found they were great at putting out a lot of heat in the first few hours of the burn, when I was in bed or away at work. But they had always dropped off before I get home from work or wake up. I don’t need the house warm when I’m not here, which is mostly what they were good at.

 

[Rearscreen]

Woodstock is having a big problem sourcing combustors right now

Tell me more, where did you hear that.