Woodstove for interior Alaska cabin

[Log Home]

Hi, I have some questions about which wood stove would be best for a 1,800 square foot off grid log home in interior Alaska where temps on some days can drop to negative -58 below zero Fahrenheit.

This will be my first house and fully off grid. I want to get it done right the first time. The house will be a prefab cabin kit and I'd like to get ideas from those who have lived experience with wood stoves in cold climates before I fully sign on with the contractor with the building process. I'm trying to decide the best place for the woodstove for optimum heat distribution throughout the cabin whether the woodstove should be placed central in the center of the cabin similar to a Blaze King style stove or a corner style wood stove? Heat rises but, will there be enough heat to reach the second floor or will I most likely have to put a wood stove in upstairs?

The house will be a 1,800 square foot log home with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 2 floors. What would you recommend for company/brand of woodstove and which size for my specific home and location of the stove? A stove that requires the fewest number of logs to be burnt over the winter months that will save money daily, monthly and annually. Fewest cords possible. Long burn times, fewest cords per year, saving money and effective heat distribution are my top priority. I do not want a stove that I have to feed quite often and cools off quickly. Do catalytic stoves produce the longest burn times?

Are the Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid and Blaze King King 40 and Hearthstone Manchester the top performers for longest burn times or are there others out there that outperform them?

Is there anything I should know about and to let the contractor know about? All your lived experiences and what you learned along the way would be greatly appreciated.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Ok, so it sounds like you’re thinking of taking a big project on without a lot of experience. First question, for the sake of safety, is what is the backup heat plan? Woodstoves have a rather large learning curve and we don’t want you to bite off too much when the consequences are deadly.



First thing is to get your wood up and drying. Wood takes time to dry. Wet wood doesn’t burn. Half wet wood burns horribly and doesn’t put out much heat. The perfect setup won’t run if you have wet wood.


Each load of wood only has so many btus in it. The longer you stretch out that burn time, the fewer btus you are going to get per hour. When it gets cold, a cat stove will have the same burn time as a non cat stove.

Stoves are space heaters. They heat the room they are in best, and the rooms furthest away the least. When it’s -58 outside. The farthest rooms won’t get warm. Things sich as doorways limit convection that moves heat.

 

[stoveliker]

I think a sketch/drawing of the two floors would be useful.

Also, I wonder whether manual-J calculations exist for log homes like this - it's really hard to estimate BTU/hr needs of a home with (for most people) unusual construction.

I think one of our neighbors to the north on this forum builds log homes (and may get close to your temps...).
But I forgot his name.

 

[Megunticook]

Wow, quite a starter home!

We heat exclusively with wood (minisplit heat pump for backup but that only gets used in the summer for cooling/dehumidifying). 1900 square feet, 2-story home in Maine.

The stove was intentionally placed in the center of the first floor and I would highly recommend this. We have an fieldstone hearth behind the stove that acts as a heat sink, as does the bluestone pad for the stove. The brick chimney runs straight up the center of the home and is exposed on the second and (finished) attic, after a day or so of running the stove the brick warms up and radiates heat. Some heat also rises up the stairwell. So consider ways to have mass like stone/brick to absorb/radiate heat.

I would second the advice about getting your wood split and stacked now so it has plenty of time to season before you start burning it.

Also for backup consider a mini-split heat pump. We have solar with battery backup here (although we're grid tied--for now anyway), not sure what your battery bank capacity is but a couple minisplits would be a great backup solution. Definitely need a fallback just in case something goes awry with your stove.

 

[Todd]

I’m heating approx 1000 sq ft log cabin off grid in Northern Wi. Not quite as cold as you but we have seen -40. My advice would be to build your cabin with as open a floor plan as possible with the stove centrally located. The second floor will be warmer so ceiling fans are a good idea. With an open floor plan I would opt for a good radiant wood stove like the Woodstock PH or Ideal Steel. If the floor plan is not as open a Blaze King convective stove would be better to move the heat around.

Other things to consider are another heat source to help out. I’ve heard those Toyo heaters are pretty popular up there or maybe Propane backup. Also invest in a good generator. You’ll need it with the lack of solar power in the winter months.

If I had to do it all over I would have built a masonry heater smack dab in the middle of the cabin and built around it. I ended up with a corner wood stove install to save space.

 

[kborndale]

Wow, quite a starter home!

We heat exclusively with wood (minisplit heat pump for backup but that only gets used in the summer for cooling/dehumidifying). 1900 square feet, 2-story home in Maine.

The stove was intentionally placed in the center of the first floor and I would highly recommend this. We have an fieldstone hearth behind the stove that acts as a heat sink, as does the bluestone pad for the stove. The brick chimney runs straight up the center of the home and is exposed on the second and (finished) attic, after a day or so of running the stove the brick warms up and radiates heat. Some heat also rises up the stairwell. So consider ways to have mass like stone/brick to absorb/radiate heat.

I would second the advice about getting your wood split and stacked now so it has plenty of time to season before you start burning it.

Also for backup consider a mini-split heat pump. We have solar with battery backup here (although we're grid tied--for now anyway), not sure what your battery bank capacity is but a couple minisplits would be a great backup solution. Definitely need a fallback just in case something goes awry with your stove.

Awry with your stove or your back!

 

[Highbeam]

Hi, I have some questions about which wood stove would be best for a 1,800 square foot off grid log home in interior Alaska where temps on some days can drop to negative -58 below zero Fahrenheit.

This will be my first house and fully off grid. I want to get it done right the first time. The house will be a prefab cabin kit and I'd like to get ideas from those who have lived experience with wood stoves in cold climates before I fully sign on with the contractor with the building process. I'm trying to decide the best place for the woodstove for optimum heat distribution throughout the cabin whether the woodstove should be placed central in the center of the cabin similar to a Blaze King style stove or a corner style wood stove? Heat rises but, will there be enough heat to reach the second floor or will I most likely have to put a wood stove in upstairs?

The house will be a 1,800 square foot log home with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 2 floors. What would you recommend for company/brand of woodstove and which size for my specific home and location of the stove? A stove that requires the fewest number of logs to be burnt over the winter months that will save money daily, monthly and annually. Fewest cords possible. Long burn times, fewest cords per year, saving money and effective heat distribution are my top priority. I do not want a stove that I have to feed quite often and cools off quickly. Do catalytic stoves produce the longest burn times?

Are the Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid and Blaze King King 40 and Hearthstone Manchester the top performers for longest burn times or are there others out there that outperform them?

Is there anything I should know about and to let the contractor know about? All your lived experiences and what you learned along the way would be greatly appreciated.

I love following the alaskan off grid folks. There are tons of them on the youtubes making content for income since what else are you going to do up there? I suggest you watch a few so that you can see what actually works from people actually doing it.

You will have propane and possibly also fuel oil for your secondary heat source. You'll also use this fossil fuel for cooking, heating water, running generator, tractor fuel, etc. This can fuel a powered or unpowered heater in the home. Do plan on it, your life could depend on this secondary heat source. I always prefer vented heaters for obvious reasons.

The wood that is available up there doesn't take long to season but at least one full summer. Lots of standing dead stuff too. Sure, drier is better.

1800 SF is a large cabin. Bigger than my regular stickbuilt home in the suburbs. So there is no such thing as too much stove. Luckily it's spread over two stories so a pretty small footprint. If it's a typical two story log home it might have that tall ceiling to the open loft which will help with heat distribution. Plan for a central stove and central chimney that stays mostly inside the home until poking through the roof.

Yes, a cat stove will burn longer, more efficiently for less wood, and more cleanly. The woodstock IS or PH model are fine, the BK is better and much more popular in alaska for a reason. Skip the hearthstone, they look good but do not have a long earned reputation as being desirable for your application. If I were you I would plan on a king from BK for longest burn time possible, highest efficiency, and the wonderful thermostat that makes wood burning super easy. A noncat would be undesirable up there where you want to heat constantly for a long season and minimize woodstove efforts.

I'm excited for you. Would love to move up there too. Solar doesn't work in the long winter so you will be using a generator every day to charge the batteries. Keeping that thing going seems to be more difficult than running a nice big BK.

One more thought... Woodstock seems to be having some problems lately. Last time I checked, there were no catalysts available from them and no aftermarket cats are offered. Second hand from forum members, they weren't answering emails or calls. Great stoves at great prices but they are a small company and in this "post tax credit era" you should get comfortable with their solvency if you want to buy from them. I'd really like to have one of their IS stoves in my shop instead of the wood hog noncat.

 

[EbS-P]

1800sq ft and temps below -40F. That’s a tall ask from any single wood stove. Insulate and air seal. Pay for (or learn how to calculate yourself) a manual J. You need to be informed up front.

BK40 and something else when it gets really cold. Maybe a wood cook stove? Running two stoves is twice as much work.

 

[begreen]

One word - superinsulate.

You will have propane and possibly also fuel oil for your secondary heat source. You'll also use this fossil fuel for cooking, heating water, running generator, tractor fuel, etc. This can fuel a powered or unpowered heater in the home. Do plan on it, your life could depend on this secondary heat source. I always prefer vented heaters for obvious reasons

How do these fuels behave at -50ºF? Safe storage in a heated space seems necessary.

 

[begreen]

Search on some of Poindexter's past threads. Living in extreme cold brings challenges, even in a conventional home.

 

[Highbeam]

One word - superinsulate.

How do these fuels behave at -50ºF? Safe storage in a heated space seems necessary.

That's where the experience, some recent below -50, of other alaska people comes into play. Both propane and fuel oil in outdoor tanks worked for them. Not without preparation of course. The fuel oil is winterized up there, not regular #2.

Seems like a fuel oil tank in the basement would make things easier but they all seem to use these big ugly above ground tanks on elevated skids.

 

[stoveliker]

Regarding a cat stove, not sure how shipping will get there to off grid locations. You'll need a cat every now and then.

Benefit would be big output when needed and less when that suffixes (in May or so, aka summer here ;-) ).

 

[Log Home]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

There will be two woodstoves on the first floor, the main central wood stove and another one in the kitchen that is for cooking/stove/oven that's compatible with wood logs, coal and lump charcoal.

There will be a solar powered battery system with a backup diesel generator with a 500 gallon fuel tank outside that is used to recharge the batteries of the solar system. To prevent the diesel fuel from gelling in cold weather they use #1 Low Sulfur Fuel Oil (K-1 Kerosene), Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD), or Arctic Diesel. The diesel generator is a Equipment Source Inc ESI Alaska KPG-06 Arctic Re-Air enclosure designed specifically for the arctic.

I first thought about propane but, propane does not vaporize at -40 below zero F.

In interior Alaska it's only for a few days to a week max that temps drop below -40 F.

I could install a Toyo heater that can be connected to the 500 gallon diesel fuel tank for backup emergencies only as a secondary heat source.

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[begreen]

Insulation levels, sealing, glazing R value, will determine the best solution. Run a heat loss calculation on the building to determine the heat loss at -50º and 0º.

 

[Highbeam]

The interwebs seem to agree that propane begins to have problems once the actual tank of fuel hits -44F. I'll tell you what I do when the propane freezes, I heat the propane tank. Nothing wrong with the toyo heaters and you need fuel oil for the genset and tractor anyway.

There are also two extremes of off grid cabin. It's a wide spectrum. There are folks that are very tight on budget and then folks that spend whatever it takes. Of course nobody is really off-grid and many folks not connected to utilities are just a short distance from a town. Are you going to be several hours from the nearest town? Will there be roads? That 500 gallon tank will get used pretty fast.

Preparing for -50 is tough. Car batteries will freeze, water wells/lines can freeze, septic systems can freeze, you can get into a dangerous situation fast with no shelter and no way to escape to town.

Oh an then some moose comes along and tramples you! I hope you are able to show us how you do it.

 

[Log Home]

The interwebs seem to agree that propane begins to have problems once the actual tank of fuel hits -44F. I'll tell you what I do when the propane freezes, I heat the propane tank. Nothing wrong with the toyo heaters and you need fuel oil for the genset and tractor anyway.

There are also two extremes of off grid cabin. It's a wide spectrum. There are folks that are very tight on budget and then folks that spend whatever it takes. Of course nobody is really off-grid and many folks not connected to utilities are just a short distance from a town. Are you going to be several hours from the nearest town? Will there be roads? That 500 gallon tank will get used pretty fast.

Preparing for -50 is tough. Car batteries will freeze, water wells/lines can freeze, septic systems can freeze, you can get into a dangerous situation fast with no shelter and no way to escape to town.

Oh an then some moose comes along and tramples you! I hope you are able to show us how you do it.

Yes. Lots of planning and numbers crunching is going on behind the scenes.

The log home will not be "Into the Wild" way off 4 hours from the nearest town. I have to be realistic, the contractors/builders need to bring in trucks and to be able to dig a well and septic tank.

The option of buying a 1000 gallon fuel tank instead of 500 is still on the table.

But, I want to use the diesel generator as least as possible, maybe 100 to 200 gallons a year at most. In order to do that in Alaska you have to over build the solar system with at least 100kwh of useable battery storage. You only want to use 2kwh to 6kwh per day of electrical use during winter months to prevent the generator from turning on to recharge the batteries. With 100kwh of total useable battery storage you can possibly get over 20 days of autonomy without sun before the generator kicks in if you keep the solar panels clear of snow.

 

[kborndale]

Even if you keep the solar panels free of snow, how much sunlight is there in Nov-Feb?

 

[Log Home]

Even if you keep the solar panels free of snow, how much sunlight is there in Nov-Feb?

According to A.I. ChatGP...

December: Fairbanks experiences approximately 3.5 to 4 hours of daylight per day in December, with the shortest day occurring around the winter solstice (December 21). On the solstice, daylight lasts just 3 hours and 53 minutes, though the sun remains low on the horizon, creating extended twilight periods that can make the sky appear dimly lit for several hours before sunrise and after sunset.

January: Daylight increases slightly, averaging 5 to 6 hours per day. By the end of January, the day length reaches about 6 hours, with sunrise and sunset times gradually shifting earlier and later.

February: Daylight continues to grow rapidly. In February, Fairbanks sees 7 to 10 hours of daylight, increasing from about 7 hours and 5 minutes on February 1 to 10 hours and 7 minutes by February 28. This rapid increase is due to the sun’s shallow angle and the city’s high latitude.

• Estimated production: 15–25 kWh/day average
• Annual Average Daily Production:
  Weighted average:
  
  (4×135)+(2×60)+(6×20)/12=58 kWh/day
  
  This far exceeds the 4.34 kWh/day load, meaning the system will rarely need generator backup under normal conditions.

I'll only be using around 4.34kWh per day from the battery/solar from the appliances, electronic devices, that's all been calculated. I won't be approaching the 15kWh per day. So, my generator use will be minimal. In order to achieve that, you have to have a large battery capacity of at least 100kWh, which I'm putting together.

All the big high draw power hogs will not be part of the cabin (HVAC, clothes dryer, electric stove/oven, dish washer). Excluding those saves a LOT of battery and reduces the daily kwh drastically.

 

[stoveliker]

I believe @salecker builds log cabins. And he is in "Northern Canada".
He may be able to estimate BTU needs (in absence of a manual J calc).

 

[Log Home]

How many cords of wood would be used over a 7 to 8 month period in Alaska/Canada on average with a Blaze King King 40 ?

 

[stoveliker]

No telling; it depends on whether you run full blast, or much lower. (Can differ by a factor of 4 or so in wood usage per unit time).
And on what wood, as a cord of oak has much more BTUs than spruce.
I know you don't have oak, but birch or fir differ too I think.

 

[reaperman1]

Whichever stove you choose you can help yourself out by positioning your cabin to get as much sunlight as possible. I realize its Alaska and the days are short. But when the sun can shine thru large windows it makes a big difference.

 

[Log Home]

No telling; it depends on whether you run full blast, or much lower. (Can differ by a factor of 4 or so in wood usage per unit time).
And on what wood, as a cord of oak has much more BTUs than spruce.
I know you don't have oak, but birch or fir differ too I think.

If you're running the Blaze King 40 on low, is it enough to produce steady heat to keep a average size house warm in winter?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

In the north east, I’d expect an 1800 ft log cabin to use about 5 cords. But we’re not seeing -50 and winters are shorter. I’d want to start with 10 cords.

Log cabins have thermal mass, not a high r value. Depending on the design and care put into building them, you can get quite a leak between logs as they dry out.

Due to that learning curve, you won’t be burning as efficiently as you think. You will be going through more wood. It’d really be bad to run out. Any extra can always be burnt the next year. Dry wood doesn’t go bad.

 

[stoveliker]

The point I'm trying to make with my manual J calc, with my BTU needs remark, and my "no telling" is that we don't know the properties of your home. What is the rate of BTU loss when it's 70 inside and -40 outside?
The BTU loss rate determines how many BTUs you need to keep supplying in order to keep the temperature stable ("warm").