Yes, an orphanage will go up in flames instantly(boxwood stove thread)

[bcrewcaptain]

So here is the rundown. Tapping into existing chimney/flue combo. Previously had a Jotul stove as the primary source of heat. Life changed, so heat pump was installed, and stove was sold. Fast forward 10 yrs, and it's back to a small stove to take some of the stain off the heating bills, $300 a month electric during the winter gets a little old. Picked up a US Stove boxwood 2421 from Tractor Supply, yes, I have read the stories on here about how I will died instantly, but it was what was in the budget for a new stove. Wasn't willing to gamble(or the wife wasn't at least) on a used stove so here we are. All seams have been sealed, all around, the foolish ashpan/vent in the front has been blocked off for the most part, allowing the air to mainly draw from the vent as designed and not overburn. Temps have been maintaining in the "safe burn" zone, so no worries there. My main goal is longer run time, I'm already getting 6-7 hrs from it, so I may be expecting too much to thing I'm getting any more. 2" of sand on bottom for easy buffer, small grate to raise the wood about an inch over that.
With my research, the adding of a second damper in the flue MAY increase the burn time slightly, but would also increase the mess to go along with it.
Basically I have 24" of single wall coming from top of stove into a 90, 14" of single wall into the flue, and then the 14' of chimney and out she goes.
The other thought would be to fabricate a baffle to keep the flames from just shooting right out the top, and perhaps increase the burn that way as well.

Any additional ideas without the usual"you're gonna die"?
This is what I have, what I can afford, and what I will use, just trying to increase the burn time a bit.
Thanks

 

[Warm_in_NH]

Pipe damper worked good on ours years ago. Don't recall burn times, but it definitely slowed things down a bit.
That said, it was one dangerous stove, it finally got moved out of the shed when visible flames were coming out of the seams. (maybe from pipe damper being closed...?)
Keep good ember protection all around it.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

it appears to be exactly the same design as my Vogelzang which I have had going for the better part of 30 years in the mancave, and had zero issues in that location. The current location is a slate floor over a 3ft slab, rock walls on 2 sides and a 14ft corrugated roof above, I'm not too worried about that, plus this will be not be fired nearly as hot as my other stove for that matter. The seams are sealed is this point, both with cement and brazed, so that should have things covered as well.

 

[begreen]

The seams are sealed is this point, both with cement and brazed, so that should have things covered as well.

Both of these stoves with their seams sealed are the exception. Running it at low heat is wise. The problem with these cheap box stoves besides very poor sealing and lousy air control is inconsistent casting quality. It's a crap shoot to find out that you got a poorly cast one when there's a raging fire in your home.

Personally I'd rather pay twice as much (less than our home insurance) for a decent small clean-burning Englander or Century stove. So what it the payback is two winters instead of one? What premium does reliable safe burning have on it? The EPA stove will also save on wood consumption so the payback is actually shorter.

 

[jb6l6gc]

i think 6-7 hrs burn time is pretty good on that. Maybe getting a bit greedy to want more out of such a cheap unit.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

Both of these stoves with their seams sealed are the exception. Running it at low heat is wise. The problem with these cheap box stoves besides very poor sealing and lousy air control is inconsistent casting quality. It's a crap shoot to find out that you got a poorly cast one when there's a raging fire in your home.

Personally I'd rather pay twice as much (less than our home insurance) for a decent small clean-burning Englander or Century stove. So what it the payback is two winters instead of one? What premium does reliable safe burning have on it? The EPA stove will also save on wood consumption so the payback is actually shorter.

Paying twice as much wasn't a possibility in this case, I was scraping to pick up this unit. Thankfully I have access to several hundred acres of woods, the fuel is not the issue. My house is well insulated, 5-6 hours of burn time will normally keep the house manageable down to lower 30s, solar design does have advantages. As stated in the initial post, it is what I have, what I will be working with, I expected the bashing as I have seen in the dozens of posts before, I also explained I'm quite familiar with the stove design and metallurgy, so I can handle most of what gets tossed at me. If not, I'm also a firefighter, I know what to do from there.

 

[jatoxico]

Not so sure about raising the fire with a grate, think that can lead to problems. Have you tried larger splits or more tightly packed wood? Larger chucks will burn slower and at lower temp typically.

 

[begreen]

Mindful, knowledgeable operation goes a long way with any stove. Thanks for your service as a fireman.

 

[BrotherBart]

If I had a box stove and was getting six to seven hours of heat out of a load I would be ecstatic.

 

[Z33]

If I had a box stove and was getting six to seven hours of heat out of a load I would be ecstatic.

That was exactly what I was thinking. It goes back to the whole "You get what you pay for" adage

 

[branchburner]

With my research, the adding of a second damper in the flue MAY increase the burn time slightly, but would also increase the mess to go along with it.

Yeah, at some point the only way to get longer burns in a stove that lacks secondary combustion technology is by turning it into a creosote factory. (That is the point where long burn = long smolder.) Sounds like you are doing a pretty good job of squeezing heat out of that stove without burning too cool or too slow.

 

[bholler]

The only thing i can see from what you say that may add a little burn time is toss the grate. It means for one you get less wood in which means less burn time. It also lets the air come in from the bottom which shortens burn times as well.

 

[Grisu]

Thankfully I have access to several hundred acres of woods, the fuel is not the issue.

Is there any demand for firewood in your area? Maybe you could split a few cords more and sell them to put the proceeds towards a better stove. With an EPA-stove you will use less wood so overall you may actually save cutting and splitting time. Getting the money for an Englander should not require many cords. The 30NC was (maybe still is) on sale for $650. Probably will be again in the spring.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

Is there any demand for firewood in your area? Maybe you could split a few cords more and sell them to put the proceeds towards a better stove. With an EPA-stove you will use less wood so overall you may actually save cutting and splitting time. Getting the money for an Englander should not require many cords. The 30NC was (maybe still is) on sale for $650. Probably will be again in the spring.

HAHAHAHA(A cord of two yr old hardwood split, delivered and stacked is around $100, wood is plentiful and it seems like every family has a teenager with a splitter), I may look into a different stove down the road, but between the solar gain, some homebrew solar heaters, and this as a supplement, I should be able to keep the electric bills under control at least.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

The only thing i can see from what you say that may add a little burn time is toss the grate. It means for one you get less wood in which means less burn time. It also lets the air come in from the bottom which shortens burn times as well.

I may try this, I'm only losing about an inch(homebrew design just to speed the starting of the fire) I don't plan on keeping it burning 24/7, so late afternoon starts will happen pretty much daily.

 

[CheapBassTurd]

I have the same unit and am making the best of it.

Enduring a layoff and this one has to work. Been reading carefully everything you
guys have typed. I'll be here to babysit the thing and we won't be doing large
burns in it either.

Now that it's too late we're just using this stove to set up the next one. Money should be fine
soon enough and I'm buying an EPA unit. Did some grinding and dremeling of some casting
flash so the cooking burners and top piece between fit tight together. The other parts all passed
the flashlight test. Gonna seal it up even more with some refractory lining, and straight chimney
for thorough cleaning.

CheapSurvivorMark

 

[bcrewcaptain]

I have the same unit and am making the best of it.

Enduring a layoff and this one has to work. Been reading carefully everything you
guys have typed. I'll be here to babysit the thing and we won't be doing large
burns in it either.

Now that it's too late we're just using this stove to set up the next one. Money should be fine
soon enough and I'm buying an EPA unit. Did some grinding and dremeling of some casting
flash so the cooking burners and top piece between fit tight together. The other parts all passed
the flashlight test. Gonna seal it up even more with some refractory lining, and straight chimney
for thorough cleaning.

CheapSurvivorMark

The update is...I'm still alive to post, so I guess that says something.
Have had zero issues with the stove. Like you, I sanded/filed down the burners on top(ended up just sealing them, I didn't foresee any future need to ever pull them. Made a better"gasket" for the bottom of the door to seal that silly design where the ash cleanup is, and I'm quite happy. Never have gotten around to the baffle at the flue, but I'm getting 8 hrs of burn time with some larger oak slabs, after 10hrs I can still drop some kindling on the ashes and get an instant relight. Is it the perfect stove? no, but it sure does the trick, my heat pump hasn't kicked on in a month.

 

[CheapBassTurd]

Hopefully we can both survive "the stove of death".

To be sure we're switching out in the off season.
Like you said: Perfect, no. Good enough, yes (my own wording)

Burn it if ya got it,
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeap

 

[CheapBassTurd]

Brew, and other boxstove operators)

Did you use firebrick lining the interior? With the huge firebox and this thin-walled casting
I'm planning on it tomorrow. Base and walls are done, stack going up next day or so.
Lowest pipe is single wall then insulated up to the cap. (or will be).

Today I have the thing standing on end lining every seam with refractory. I too after reading this
am sealing the burner plates this evening. The exterior brazes look very good actually.

Got those two huge fins in the interior of the outlet halfway milled out before being called in
for some suppers. Slicing those out will allow the factory damper to close much more but will
still have it's "constant flow" 4 holes in the center of the butterfly. Maybe I should go with an
in-line flue/ shutoff. I have about a day to make up my mind on that one. Most air leak intake points
are sealed off, and yes for sure blocking that lower front cleanout trap drawer.

I haven't done anything with the door yet but will at signs of leaks or misalignment.

One leg still moves a little even after cleaning off some casting boogers. Gotta hit that again
before getting the whole unit bolted and riveted up.

At 27" deep and bricks being 9 inches at least the math is easy. I'm thinking about going 4 high
on each side and to the top of the box in back. None in front.

That's all changeable. I'm not mortaring anything into permanent place until after doing some
more research.

Up to 3 cords done up now. 2/3 oak and ash splits, one cord of random species rounds.
Mostly dead and scavenged stuff so far. Got some great standing deads in the forest we
live in also for a dry wood start. I'll start cutting and seasoning the green soon enough as
we have 42 trees and I like three of them. lol

More to follow,
CheapMark

 

[CheapBassTurd]

Begreen,

Your words have not been lost on me. This stove won't be in the house next fall.
Lesson learned, but still good to keep as a backup and/ or stick it in my garage/shop.

She and I both like glass fronts too. At 50 years old we're just going to spend the cash
on an efficient and reputable model and be done with it other than maintaining and repairs
over time.

 

[CheapBassTurd]

Ran the pig near full bore.
Did three mini burns curing the interior cement. Each roughly
a half hour of kindling. (In my previous career the pourers dried the ladles after
mudding with a torch at the foundry for 1-2 hours so I followed the same ritual
I've watched from '96 to '13. Luckily I had 1/8" in two layers making it 1/4" thick.
I'm using the same stuff.
The overkill on seam sealing and cementing down the cook-plates paid off well.
It didn't smoke. The bottom trap is sealed off completely. Fire goes out with the
vent screwed shut. I may have even made a near EPA unit finishing where the
factory left off. This is where a small dash of fear in the recipe can save a life or six.
Being out in the stix I ran a Y at the washing machine water supply thru the crawlspace.
The trapdoor to the crawl happens to be a few feet from burn-central. The remaining hose is
coiled up with trigger sprayer on the end. With firefighting equipment in place very close it was time.

Crammed the box N/S, short splits E/W, coupla 3-4" rounds on the third layer. The kindling coals
needed help from the torch and life turned yellow a bit after that. Closed it up with the vent open,
and damper at 3/4 open. Strangely the house began warming. turned on the box fan and killed
the wall thermostat. The sand under brick bottom didn't warm for hours. The sides warmed
nicely and the top showed 520 on the IR gun. Side temps were all over the place as the unit hadn't
been fully heated yet, brick halfway up the sides, then the whole flippin' shanty filled with smoke.
(1/2 hour temperature spike) Stunk horribly just like every year when I repaint my motorcycle exhaust
with grill paint. The stove and chimney cured off and seasoned the factory paint. Outgassed the house,
closed the windows, and we're now "stovers!"

Wall therm showed 72 and I was doing dishes in boxers n' slippers when the family got home.
The three dogs all found a new place to sleep. Set the furnace to 64 and it kicked on as I was
getting up. Took 1/2 day to come back down from last afternoon. Very satisfying for a potbelly/ box
from the info I soaked up last month or so. I'm leery of filling it before bed so we won't. Two cycles
per day and going to bed with coals seems like a good pattern to follow with a dragon stove.

Slightly more wood in this morning but nowhere near the top of the unit.
Lil' paint smell but minimal this morning.

CheapAndGrinnin'

 

[bholler]

I may have even made a near EPA unit finishing where the
factory left off.

well you did a good job but no you have not done anything to make it anywhere near an epa approved appliance. You simply brought it up to the standard it should have been built to to begin with. There is a whole lot more to an epa approved stove than a tight fire box

 

[Isaac Carlson]

The last thing to do is put a baffle in it with secondary tubes. That will allow you to slow down the burn and burn the smoke. I have a boxwood stove and was thinking of brazing/sealing the seams but many on here cautioned against it because it would break from thermal expansion. I will be sealing it up and installing secondaries now.

 

[bholler]

No matter what you do to these stoves they still are made from crap castings that are very prone to cracking. I would never waste the time or effort putting a secondary combustion system in one when it may crack at any time.

 

[begreen]

Putting a secondary rack in this style stove is tricky because it changes the burn pattern and heat distribution. I agree with bholler and would not invest anymore in this stove. Winter will soon be over and it would be better now to be working on a good stash of wood split, stacked and drying for next winter.