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Your opions on stove manufacturers

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by TAC_Double, Feb 14, 2008.

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  1. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    All this bashing reminds me of the Harley guys bashing us Honda people... What matters is that we all heat with wood or one of it's by-products! Englander happens to be made in USA and maybe it doesn't have the flash of a $3000.00 stove but the bottom line is it heats your home and saves you money.. Be proud and enjoy what you spent your hard earned cash on.. I'll back you all the way! I welcome the chance to see an Englander stove in action.. My stove is an EPA phase one stove and from what I have read I am better off without all the refractory stuff that fails.. Enjoy the heat you have my full support!

    Ray

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  2. CREEKY

    CREEKY New Member

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    we have a service contract with a tractor supply locally to repair englander & breckwell pellet stoves . I am also a hearth retailer. The englander stoves don't have much of a warranty & the people at tractor supply have no idea how to use or answer customer complaints or problems. Trust me. Buy a Harman pellet stove. Only pellet on market 3 year parts & labor warranty. replacement parts are 1/2 the cost of englander & breckwell.
  3. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    In 20 years I have only needed 1 part on my stove which I replaced a couple weeks ago for less than $25.00... I replaced a door gasket once and a combustor once which are wear items for less than $130 combined.. A good stove should not require lots of parts...

    My 2 cents,

    Ray
  4. asmith1

    asmith1 New Member

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    I put an Englander 30 in my sister and brother in-laws palce outside of Ithica Ny 2 years ago. The stove is a real work horse. It really made me question spending 2 grand plus on my Avalon Olympic. I like the wider look of the Olympic better but the Englander has a tall and deep firebox allowing long burns and odd pieces without shoveling ashes frequently. In my opinion you can't find a better stove at twice the cost unless you are only considering looks only. Good luck
  5. Hanko

    Hanko Minister of Fire

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    I would go with a local dealer and a stove that has good support. Jotul, Loppi, Pacific enegry, VC, Hearthstone ect. I wouldnt buy from the box stores regardless. try to find somebody at Lowes that knows the difference between there ass and hole in the ground. You get what you pay for
  6. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    We have a lot of satisfied Englander owners coming on board this year. It's not for everyone, but does represent a solid value with good support from the manufacturer. As far as value for the dollar, they are hard to beat. For those on a budget, with personal skills to install or get the stove installed properly, I don't have reservations recommending these stoves.

    Edit: Best take a look at other stove warranties Creeky. ie: Quadrafire's, Enviro's, etc.
  7. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    I fully agree with your opinion.. Most woodstoves by nature are relatively simple devices and easily understood by many people.. While I fully support Mom and Pop shops they aren't necessarily the be-all end-all tech support that many people think they are and many stores are staffed by regular sales people with less knowledge than those who are buying their products... Go ahead and flame if you like but I am entitled to my opinion..

    Ray

    PS: Many people like myself tend to figure things out for themselves...
  8. bbc557ci

    bbc557ci New Member

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    Hanko, apparently in your case, the hole in the ground would be the one without the bug up it :)
  9. Hanko

    Hanko Minister of Fire

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    Now why would you say something like that> all I stated was my personal opinion about box stores, and that the best you can come up with. My opinion was in no way personal to anyone on this site. I have no bug in my ass except guys who say crap hidden behind a keyboard. If you work at one of those stores, sorry, but thats the way I feel and I thaught this site was all opinios welcome
  10. stoveguy13

    stoveguy13 Minister of Fire

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    Just a thought for all of you some of the people that are giving advice and helping people come from those hearth stores the guy who started the site would be one of them as well there is nothing wrong with enlanders buisness model i actually am considering carrying there stove line but the one thing i think that you are missing is that there are a whole lot of people out there that dont find this site and dont know to call englander directly for help that would disagree that it is a good place to buy things like stoves granted as we all know there are lots of problems that can be solved via the net or the phone but there is some real benfit gained to have some who will come to your house and solve the problem for you.
  11. asmith1

    asmith1 New Member

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    I prefer to support local mom and pop type places over big box stores as well. I do contracting/remodeling in the summer when not teaching and the local lumber place we use has better quality and service. The older guy I work with has been going there for 25yrs. My next stove in the house we are building will be a Fireview. I really understand what it is like to live on a tight budget and with that as a consideration for my sister the Englaner has been great for her and her husband. They needed big heat and had very little money. The stove in thier huge old house they bought was a disaster waiting to happen. My brother in law is a big time DIYer and does everything himself with some help my Dad and I. They are very happy with the stove and I have been over many times to run it myself. I think Enlander would be the only lower priced stove I would consider though.

    Smith
  12. justcollectingdust

    justcollectingdust New Member

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    Ok, I didn't want to really start a feud between those that wanted to purchase their stove from a big box store or the ones that need help from someone who knows more than they do. Bottom line is that I just believe that people like "Mike" from Englander stoves knows more than the mom and pop stores and certainly more than the guys at home depot and lowes. In fact, he makes himself available free of charge to those of you who bought your stove from wherever!
    So for those of you that bought your stoves from various dealers
    I have a question....since your dealer provides you with soooo much information that you had to pay extra for....why are you asking questions here?

    Me, I'm all for the mom and pop stores as long as they don't over charge for a product,,,,but fact is, most of them are several hundred dollars higher than the
    big box stores and I for one have a budget. So with Mike's help I'll go with the quality and great price.

    Lew
  13. Hanko

    Hanko Minister of Fire

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    Englander stoves are probably great stoves, and a good value. Im not supporting stores that support China. good products or not. Im an electrical contractor and ILl go out of business before I do business with them. I want to know what can you purcahse from them that will provide service, parts, or professional advice. Go into Lowes, every sign in the place is also in Spannish. Buy American products and folk China and Mexicco.
  14. Roamer

    Roamer New Member

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    I prefer to buy items made in America whenever possible. Englander is made in America...in fact, they're made just about 200 miles from where I live, so not only am I supporting an American business, I'm supporting the local economy as well. If a big box store is getting some of the profit, I'm ok with that as they employ a lot of people who live in my town.

    I did buy my stovepipe and cement from a mom & pop hardware, though.
  15. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    There is plenty of room in the world for DIY and dealer installed stoves. What fascinates me is the number of people that plop down four grand for a stove and installation without a detailed agreement with the dealer, in writing, covering what they are getting for that money. And then going through the roof when their unannounced expectations aren't met.
  16. michaelthomas

    michaelthomas New Member

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    I think it is common knowledge that the big box stores are for the do it yourselfers out there. Part of doing it yourself is LEARNING it yourself. If you go into home depot to buy some chimney pipe for an install you had better not expect to learn how to do it from the sales guy. You had better have learned all you need to make a smart purchase prior to going into the store. I try not to ever be SOLD something, I learn and BUY what I know I need. When I bought my Englander from Lowes it was $473 and I got my info from here. All I needed mr Lowes guy to do was bring it to my Van. I don't expect technical advice from those guys. LEARN, then LEARN some more, Then BUY. I am amazed that I was able to buy a stove that is going to cut my $1800 heating bill to virtually nothing next year. I was able to take advantage of the big boxes formula of SPACE vs PROFIT. they needed to clear the space to bring in their profitable spring stuff and did not want to get stuck with a restocking fee so I got my stove for probably very near their cost? I am not complaining one bit.
  17. asmith1

    asmith1 New Member

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    It is a constant personal dilema. Spend all my time searching for stuff made in america or just get what I need and live with it. I think you just do what you can. The end of season sales and 12 months no interest at HD and lowes helps a lot when your just starting out in life and have little money. You would have work hard to search out everything you need made in America. I sure do hate seeing local places go under. It is a vicious cycle this country is in.

    Smith
  18. Hanko

    Hanko Minister of Fire

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    No why would anybody complain. I need some 2x4's I have to go to home depot, I need a gorceries I have to go to wall mart, a perscription, CVS. we have no more small private mom and pop business left. Need a refrig or a dryer, go to Lowes. Need class A chimney, sure go ahead and buy the crapy 3 wall simpson thats sold there. I have never seen the good stuff that simpson sells offered. dont complain next time you go to wall mart and buy something that is made by some poor chinese kid whom is 10 years old. The unlicensed plumbers and electricians cant buy from wholsale houses at contractors discounts so they go to home depot and stand in line with all the handymen to buy their forgien made crap. hey dont compalin dude push 1 for spanish
  19. Hanko

    Hanko Minister of Fire

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    yes it is a visicous cycle. On the other hand what would we be paying for stuff with out foriegn competition. Go figure, Im just pissed and fed up and tired of trying to be a good american
  20. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I have three Chevys, one Plymouth, one Englander wood stove and one Englander pellet stove. Buying American ain't hard to do.

    Just make sure you have good tools.
  21. asmith1

    asmith1 New Member

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    It does get harder every year. I try to stress this to my students sometimes but a lot of them don't get it. Fat dumb and happy. The world says we need all this stuff. We couldn't afford half the stuff we have if it was all made in america. Materialism run wild.
  22. michaelthomas

    michaelthomas New Member

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    [quote author="Hanko" date="1204956374"]Need class A chimney, sure go ahead and buy the crapy 3 wall simpson thats sold there. I have never seen the good stuff that simpson sells offered.

    What do you mean by this? What is different about this product vs their other 3 wall product?
  23. keyman923

    keyman923 Member

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    I really like Duraplus, I'm running 3 of them. The 2" clearance makes more sense to me on triple wall then on a double wall. I talked to Ray today from Simpson and he's a great guy, really helpful. The new powder coat stove pipe they are working on sounds real nice.
  24. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, every once in a while this conversation repeats itself over and over again. But there is an ass for every seat. An Englander pellet stove is not a Harman and a Jotul cost much more than an Englander, and some people can weld and wire and build, and others can't turn a screwdriver.

    The VAST Majority of wood stoves and pellet stoves are sold by local specialty dealers - who run the gamut from horrible to amazing, just like every other human enterprise. Just like we all complain about the price of oil, we also complain about the lack of service from just about EVERY business. The fact is, it is tough to do biz these days. You get what you pay for in many cases. If your new refrigerator breaks, you expect someone to come out and fix it. Many people expect the same with their pellet stove, wood stove, or leaking insulated chimney installation. A DIYer can ALWAYS save money. It is much cheaper to buy studs and sheet rock than to have a builder construct your addition.

    Note that SOME mass market products is different than what you get in specialty stores. Everyone knows that certain "lesser models" of brand names products are sold only in HD and Lowes. That does not mean they are bad products (for instance a HD chain saw), but just that the product is different.

    Again, there is an ass for every seat. I doubt each of us has the cheapest house money can buy, or the cheapest car money can buy or the cheapest computer or education money can buy. Very few of us select the cheapest caskets money can buy!

    It's the way of the world. Products will be made to fit every niche, and then times are good many people will buy "up" - when they are not, folks will go for the Model T's of the world.

    I buy a lot of cheap (harbor freight) tools myself, because $2.99 for a digital multimeter is a heck of a price...and since I am not an electrician, I don't need pro tools (same with a lot of my other tools which get little use, no need to go top notch).

    On the other end of things, I once went all out and bought a $1200 computer desk - that was 12 years ago and it will serve me for another 12 or more - 6 feet long, 3 stories high and I can fit ANY amount of equipment on it. Sure, I could have found a $150 computer desk, but no way it would have served me as well.
  25. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    hey guys, i have no problem with dealers or dealer based service , not everyone is handy with a tool. some folks just dont want to deal with the upkeep. whatever , different strokes, there is a market out there for that. pay the extra thousand dollars or so , and get the full service contract. its your money, and your choice. however, i suggest you shop for dealers just as diligently as you shop for stoves though in that market, as i stated earlier, there can be less than stellar dealers selling good products, you will also find outstanding dealers selling great products.

    our market is not there for the folks who wish to have that level of service,(in house technical service) but wish to save the money and still buy a quality product. i see these things built every day, i know whats in them , i also know whats in the "premium brand" stoves (as far as motors and blowers and such in pellet stoves, refractories and such in woodstoves)i have personally had my hands on 8 years worth of englander stoves as i ran the quality assurance program for the company from 1993 through 2001. except for a weeks worth of vacation or so , every stove that left that factory was approved by me before it saw a box. needless to say its a personal thing with me. i learned about quality control from professionals in a job where not paying attention to detail got pilots killed. i took that commitment with me when i started working for ESW.

    as for our service department , i have personally selected and trained most all of them. they will have worked for a minimum of 1 year(most more than that) in our assembly plant before being considered for my staff. they then recieve training in our labs as well as personal training with me. when they are done and know the stove line to my satisfaction , then they get a chair in my office. that means when a customer calls my office for assistance , they dont get an automaton reading from a script, they get a person who has spent his summers building the very units that are in the stores that winter, i have to give them back every spring as they are important to our manufacturing department when the line cranks up. they serve as section leaders and quality assurance techs making sure the next seasons units will be as solid as we can make them. they have a vested interest in this happening, cause if the stoves arent built right , they will hear about it the next winter when they come back to the service department. this is stressed constantly. even more importantly though , if they dont do the job in the building season , i'll nail their hide to my barn door!

    personally, i use ESW stoves to heat my home exclusively. routinely , i leave my house for work with my family sleeping soundly and my stove running (i will say though in deferrance to the dealer who posted earlier , if i couldnt have an ESW product , i'd be first in line to get a harman, (they IMHO are excellent machines) but im prejudiced. i work for ESW. i also grew up with ESW heat, my parents used an ESW unit to heat their house when i was a child. its over 30 now and still burns as well as it did in 1977 when it was installed, blower still works, bricks are origional , only the door gasket has been changed. how many of you have a stove you can say that about?

    bottom line is simple, its the bottom line. we dont build "cheap stoves" we build stoves that quality wise i'll put up against anything out there as far as performance and safety, and beat some, but i dont see losing to very many. throw in the price point, BTU for the buck, we win.

    these are not foriegn built, if anything maybe some of the components may have motors and blowers with parts made outside the us, but they are the same blowers and motors used in the "high priced" brands. the welding is all done by hand by craftsmen who care what they put their name on( ive seen arguements over who lays a better bead on a particular weld, i love it, if they didnt care that wouldnt happen)

    as for emmissions , we currently have the cleanest burning large firebox (over 3.0 cubic ft. ) on the market today regardless of price , the unit made the hearth and home hall of fame (given only to units which come in under 2.0 GPH in testing for certification) and another which made honorable mention (came in at just over 2.0) our pellet units have EPA certification and can be used anywhere in the US regardless of "green" regulations. our "return rate" currently has averaged less than 1 tenth of 1% which is as good as anyone in the industry. ( this means a unit which is sold stays sold)even in the market which includes the "no questions asked return policy" you guys have shopped at lowes/ depot , they will take anything back at the drop of a hat.

    all that and i have to defend my product line simply because we sell in the mass merchant DIY market. well, ive done that , anyone got any arguements , i'll field them. but as they say , "bring em big , or leave em at home" cause bang for the buck , we cannot be touched.
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