2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
2,640
Ottawa, ON
I used to think if stoves as “forever” items, before I was a real wood burner, similar to the way I thought of appliances when I was a child. But now I realize the tech changes quickly enough, and all of the working parts and gaskets take enough abuse over the course of a decade or two of full-time burning, that I’ve changed my perspective. Stoves are consumable, like the modern refrigerator or range. Use them 15 years, and then replace them with something far better. Building an expensive and weighty tank with a shell that will vastly outlast the working components within, or their relevance with regard to current emissions targets, is not likely the best path for any manufacturer trying to compete in a market with any cost sensitivity.

So there may be stoves out there with thicker shells than my BKs, but I don’t think I care. They generally don’t perform as well as the BK today, and will almost surely fall even shorter in comparison to the new ca.2030 BKs with which I’ll replace these, after fifteen years of full-time use and 150 cords thru the pair. Likewise, my mom has a 1953 GE fridge, and can brag it lasted longer than my last three refrigerators combined, but it uses 6x more electricity and has fewer conveniences than any of my more modern variants.
Totally agree in terms of the fridge concept. Corrosion on the the other hand is discriminate.
 

Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
2,640
Ottawa, ON
We will be approaching that volume with the T6 by the next season.
You guys are putting a lot of splits through your stoves..... labour intensives
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,024
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
I have 30+ cords thru that stove as of today, in five burn seasons, in case you wanted an idea on how long they can be ignored.
I'm over 30 cords through my 2012 model princess, 32 by end of season. I did need to replace the door gasket once but the new gasket was better than the OEM job. Either due to installation method or an actual material change from BK. I will get more life from this door gasket. Starting to wonder about the bypass gasket too. The paint is falling off in a couple of spots, and a couple of bricks are cracked, but the stove is still perfectly serviceable and has proven to fit my application very well.

The new princess would be a fine replacement with better emissions numbers for 2020. Like an 85% reduction somehow.
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,048
Southern IN
Not good
Please tell more
I guess you forgot.. ;lol
What is this minor talk about BK and rust?
my door is starting to show signs it’s time to give that gasket some attention, so I guess I’ll be learning about it this summer.
I have 30+ cords thru that stove as of today, in five burn seasons, in case you wanted an idea on how long they can be ignored.
Yikes, six cords a year, in just one stove? _g How many cords, total, do you go through??
I'd check that bypass gasket while you're doing the door, maybe some of your heat is going up the chimney. I seem to remember you talking about smoke from the flue.
I was guilty of "ignore-ance" also, wrt the bypass gasket. I finally replaced mine after nine years. It still seemed to be sealing OK with a dollar test, but apparently old gaskets just leak more. I definitely noticed a hotter stove top over the cat, after gasket replacement, 50 degrees or so.
Manual recommends this cement.. https://mid-mountain.com/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/Thermoseal 1000SF Cement.pdf
now I realize the tech changes quickly enough, and all of the working parts and gaskets take enough abuse over the course of a decade or two of full-time burning, that I’ve changed my perspective. Stoves are consumable...Use them 15 years, and then replace them with something far better. Building an expensive and weighty tank with a shell that will vastly outlast the working components within, or their relevance with regard to current emissions targets, is not likely the best path for any manufacturer trying to compete in a market with any cost sensitivity.
I don't agree; Everything other than the stove body is pretty much replaceable on wood stoves.
there may be stoves out there with thicker shells than my BKs, but I don’t think I care. They generally don’t perform as well as the BK today, and will almost surely fall even shorter in comparison to the new ca.2030 BKs with which I’ll replace these, after fifteen years of full-time use and 150 cords thru the pair
Standards pretty much didn't change in 30 years, until 2020. The stoves still haven't made any major breakthroughs, so I think your assumption that magic is going to happen by the time you need a new stove, may be a bit optimistic.
I also don't think you have enough stove experience in your house to be able to proclaim that other stoves "generally don’t perform as well as the BK today." The 2020 stoves are all pretty much showing similar efficiencies, etc, to previous stoves.
Seems to me that you have stoves that are efficient at "low and slow," but you don't live in that type of house.
I cannot see my BK lasting another 10 years, but I hope both of yours do.
Mine has worked pretty hard although the F600 burns about a third of the 10 cords that I usually burn,
I will probably be changing it for something else unless BK fixes this one for me,
I'm not sure my insurance would want me to weld it up myself :)
webby, you're shop is outstanding to give that kind of service on a stove that old,
as is blaze king, hope my dealer is as well.
Heck yeah, if you get a free repair, great, keep ridin' it. It's a PIA to pull the stove, but what the heck..
Even if you have to weld it, that ain't too big a deal, and the insurance man will be none the wiser. ;)
I'm not bad mouthing blaze king or the stove
I'll try to sum up where I'm coming from wrt to BK. I get accused of being a "hater." Not true; It's just that I'm not a "lover" like some that are either newbs, or came from an old smoke-blower stove or a cheap secondary burn stove. Or a tricky stove like Ashful's Jotul 12.
It wasn't long after I first started coming here that I started seeing the BK posts. Right away, my hackles went up. I knew enough about physics to know that there's no free lunch, and that all the talk at that time about "long burns because of the magic fairy pixie moon dust sprinkled on at the plant" was a load of crap. Then I saw that it was just a plate-steel stove, read the list of other problems that had arisen over the years, and wondered how people were calling it a quality stove that justified the premium price they ask.
"Cost sensitivity"..?? ;lol A thermostat isn't going to tip the scales for me. No, I've never burned a BK, but if I see one, or if I were to burn one, I'm pretty sure I'd come to similar conclusions that I now have. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Hey, there just aren't any perfect stoves. My stove has cemented seams, which can leak air. I had an air leak on my new Ks that gradually got worse and I had to eventually patch it. Probably will get to the point in 15-20 years where patching will be a stop-gap measure, and it will need a tear-down, to some extent. Soapstone doesn't rust though, so I expect more than 6-15 years. :oops:
I'm really inclined to go with a simple non-cat at this point, after seeing how my SIL's T5 runs. No bypass gasket, no cat, easy sweep, etc. But it would have to rear-vent into a masonry fireplace, which severely limits my options at this point. I might have to look at the feasibility of raising the lintel in my fireplace..
We will be approaching that volume with the T6 by the next season.
With nothin' but a door gasket, I bet. >>
You guys are putting a lot of splits through your stoves..... labour intensives
I guess you got a tight house? How many cords/year?
Starting to wonder about the bypass gasket too.....stove is still perfectly serviceable and has proven to fit my application very well.
The new princess would be a fine replacement with better emissions numbers for 2020. Like an 85% reduction somehow.
Yeah, just slap in a new bypass gasket; Made a difference here..
Pull some bricks while you're at it, and report back. ;)
Nobody's yet gotten to the bottom of how they reduced emissions that much, have they? I haven't seen any comments here..
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,542
Philadelphia
Yikes, six cords a year, in just one stove? _g How many cords, total, do you go through??
Yes, 6+ cords per year in just that one stove. I went thru about 10 cords per year for most of the last five years, and more than two thirds of that was in just this one stove.
 
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webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,877
Indiana
Nobody's yet gotten to the bottom of how they reduced emissions that much, have they? I haven't seen any comments here..
At first glance there’s only a few subtle differences that are noticeable. One thing I noticed was a new SS shield that is positioned directly behind the cat. It only has 3 small holes in it. I’m not sure what it’s purpose is, seems like it would really slow the flue gasses down. Probably makes it burn cleaner, I would also think it would really slow the stove down.
I don’t know what to think about the new stoves so far? Our Jotul is a forge, our Lopi Liberty is super sluggish and smokes when the door is opened. Not to mention the dirty glass <>
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
81,729
South Puget Sound, WA
You guys are putting a lot of splits through your stoves..... labour intensives
Not really, it took 10+ yrs to get there. Our stove will be going on season 12 this year. Still on original bricks. Only the door gasket has been replaced.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,542
Philadelphia
Not really, it took 10+ yrs to get there. Our stove will be going on season 12 this year. Still on original bricks. Only the door gasket has been replaced.
... and I'm heating a big house and shop, more than half of which is un-insulated mid-18th century stone with 26 of our 60 windows being from 1775. I'm putting roughly 400 million BTU into this house each year, versus 96 million for the average Pennsylvania home, so it's no surprise my wood usage is above average. In addition to the 10 cords of mostly oak firewood, I'm also burning 1000 gallons of oil + 2 heat pump systems + 2 electric resistive zones + 1 propane zone.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,024
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
At first glance there’s only a few subtle differences that are noticeable. One thing I noticed was a new SS shield that is positioned directly behind the cat. It only has 3 small holes in it. I’m not sure what it’s purpose is, seems like it would really slow the flue gasses down.
So is this in addition to the welded in curtain that has been behind the cat for many years? Or instead of? Since it is stainless,it must be mounted without welding right?
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,877
Indiana
So is this in addition to the welded in curtain that has been behind the cat for many years? Or instead of? Since it is stainless,it must be mounted without welding right?
Its something new. I think it replaces the curtain. I didn’t notice how it was mounted, and I likely won’t be back to work for a while to look again.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,024
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Its something new. I think it replaces the curtain. I didn’t notice how it was mounted, and I likely won’t be back to work for a while to look again.
Thanks for the update. The new testing results (king and princess especially) are something BK should be proud of. I am glad it wasn't just dumb luck or testing protocols but maybe some smart tweaks.

I haven't been to the office for a couple of weeks and have fallen into the trap of a morning fire instead of an afternoon fire. We load once per day almost all year long. It feels good and is fun to warm up the house in the early AM while sipping coffee with the wife. But that means the house is coolest when we need to get out of bed! I suppose we're just settling in to a new routine. Still raining and in the 30s every morning so we need heat.

My AHJ stopped almost all residential and commercial construction this week per our governor's direction. Sucked to send people home.
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,877
Indiana
The new testing results (king and princess especially) are something BK should be proud of. I am glad it wasn't just dumb luck or testing protocols but maybe some smart tweaks.
I’m certain a lot of time And consideration went into it before testing.
The prices have spiked substantially across the board, the market has been saturated with sell offs of pre 2020 stoves and I fear the new stoves aren’t as user friendly. The 2 we’ve burned so far certainly have issues. I’m not sure how most of our customers can justify it?
 
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jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
4,693
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
"new" epa regs are not such a big deal if you are always improving your product anyway. I don't imagine BK had a lot of overtime and hair pulling getting the new stoves to market.

How many stove companies (who do not even make cats) are field testing new generations of cats right now?