6 inch flue, eight inch chimney

[vkeks]

Hi. First post to this forum. Great info here; hope I can find an answer to a question. Thanks in advance.

I have had a VC Defiant Encore for nearly 20 years, and instead of a rebuild and new catalytic combustor, am considering buying a Jotul F 500 wood stove. The VC required an 8 inch chimney. The Jotul F 500 requires a six inch. Thoughts on connecting a six inch double wall from the stove to the ceiling, with a reducer at the ceiling to the 8 inch chimney. This is a pre-fab chimney that goes straight up, with the chimney being stainless. Wondering about any possible safety considerations or issues with draft for the Jotul 500 stove.

Also have seen references to the Jotul 500 possibly having issues with air flow to control the temp. Would appreciate any experience with that prior to finalizing decision to purchasing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[begreen]

Greetings. With a straight up flue, connected with double-wall it may be worth a try. How tall is the flue system?

The Oslo is pretty easy to regulate, but the burn is different than a catalytic stove. Most of the posts here with concerns are by new owners that are learning their stove's burning behavior. They are all different and it takes a while to change old habits to the new burning pattern.

You might also look at the Firelight. The Oslo is a great stove, but the Defiant is a bigger heating beast than the Oslo. The F600 Firelight is a closer match unless there have been recent improvements in insulation and draft sealing.

 

[branchburner]

BG means Firelight, not Fireview. But an easy mistake to make, with so many Woodstock Fireview posts by guys like me lately!

 

[begreen]

Doh! Yes, Firelight, thanks Branchburner. I've corrected my post. Guess that is enough zifandel for tonight.

 

[vkeks]

Wow. Awesome forum. Thanks for the quick replies. Hmm....VC Defiant Encore per the manual, max BTU output indicated is 47,000. The sales brochure indicates the Jotul F 500 Oslo is 70,000 BTU per hour. Firelight,: 81,500 BTU/hour. Thought I was getting a more output with the Jotul 500? Maybe in you're post you are referencing the 'new' VC Defiant? Thanks again.

Flue length you asked...from stove top to ceiling is 65.5 inches(on Jolut if purchased). Not sure about ceiling to top of the chimney,however, it is a single story house if that helps.

 

[branchburner]

BTU #s are tough to judge - sometimes they are talking the peak max output, which you can't sustain, sometimes talking the average sustained max output. Best to compare firebox sizes, as BG is - the amount of wood you can load is going to determine your true heating potential. The Defiant is over 3 cu ft, closer to the Jotul F600. I believe the F500 is only around 2.5 cu ft.

 

[grommal]

The OP has a Defiant Encore, not a Defiant. When VC first came out with the Encore, it was called Defiant Encore, just to confuse everybody. It's not as large as the Defiant or the Jotul Firelight. I swapped a VC Defiant Encore out for a Jotul Oslo, and the Oslo puts out a bit more heat and burns last a little longer.

My installation also involved going from 6" to 8", and I've had no problems at all with draft, even though I have an exterior masonry chimney that's not super-tall. In my case, I just did the 6-to-8 increase inside the masonry thimble, which is the only place I really had room to do it.

 

[branchburner]

Sorry, Grommal is right - Encore is only 2.3 cu ft vs Defiant 3.2 - big diff!

 

[vkeks]

Thanks for the info. Seems i'm okay as far at the chimney. The next challenge....the footprint of the Oslo is larger than my old Defiant Encore. This may put it out of the price range for me, sadly. I need an additional 10 inches of floor protection with the Oslo for the side that has the wood loading door, than I currently have with the Defiant Encore.

 

[begreen]

Sorry about the dis-information and thanks Grommal for catching the Encore bit. What is the size of the current hearth set up for the Encore? Maybe go for a front loader instead of a side loading stove?

 

[vkeks]

Current hearth size is 52 inches wide, by 46.5 inches deep. With the flue location, which goes straight up through the ceiling, seems I need floor coverage of 58 inches wide and 57 inches deep, using the center of the flue as 'ground zero' measuring point.

Currently have a 'hearth pad' on the wall (no 1" gap for air flow tho), and have a hearth pad on the floor. Any options you could suggest would be most appreciated, e.g, would tile be an option, or tile on top of millboard, or .....? Economics coming into play, with three kids currently in college.

 

[grommal]

Thanks for the info. Seems i'm okay as far at the chimney. The next challenge....the footprint of the Oslo is larger than my old Defiant Encore. This may put it out of the price range for me, sadly. I need an additional 10 inches of floor protection with the Oslo for the side that has the wood loading door, than I currently have with the Defiant Encore.

I also had to add some additional protected floor area. Fortunately, my hearth is brick on top of a concrete slab in the family room, so all I had to do was rip up little of my less-than-one-year old laminate floor around the brick area and put down a row of 12" tiles. No biggie, but I wish I had known that when I was putting the floor in!

 

[begreen]

You are very close to being on the mark, especially if the stove is connected with double-wall pipe or if the rear wall shield gets proper 1" standoffs to create the air space behind it. (1" gap at the bottom). I'd think creatively. It the hearth pad floating or is it permanent? If floating, maybe move it off center with the 18" bias on the loading door side. Then use a hearth extension (normally made for fireplaces) on the non-door side of the stove. Or create your own using a strip of cement board and tile it. If the hearth pad is permanently screwed down, then maybe you could still have the stove off center and put an offset in the flue using 2 45's back to back?

 

[vkeks]

Thanks for the thougths and ideas. Think I may go with cement board of some type, with tile. Can't find any documentationon the Jolut F 500 regarding any type of requirements for the base, in terms of heat requirements tho. Any experience with that. See other posts that say there is a certain "R" rating requirement, but not related to the F500. Looking at the on-line brochure for the F500 it says a bottom heat shield is available as optional; when I asked the dealer about one he said there is only one for the back. Geez.....this is like being in a maze.

 

[begreen]

The F500 only requires ember protection unless it is installed in an alcove. It already has a bottom heat shield, the ash pan . You'll be fine with a simple extension made with cement board and tiled. Maybe make it large enough to store wood on too.

 

[stovelark]

Great choice with the Oslo, Blue Black would be my choice. It will certainly produce as much heat as your older VC but the key is always the same, good dry firewood. Ran the Oslo for years, great stove.

Stovelark
Enviro 1700 Kodiak FS

 

[Skier76]

I'm running a Jotul Castine to an 8" exterior Metalbestos chimney; with 2 90 degree bends(one inside, on outside). And the exterior chimney is 13-14' tall...and doesn't clear the peak of the roof (A-Frame). If my stove can work, it sounds like your setup will. This it our weekend house and I didn't want to reinvent the wheel when it came to adding the stove. We used the setup that was there for us when we bought it. It actually works rather well.

Good luck with the new stove. Jotul makes some great units.

 

[firefighterjake]

Thanks for the thougths and ideas. Think I may go with cement board of some type, with tile. Can't find any documentationon the Jolut F 500 regarding any type of requirements for the base, in terms of heat requirements tho. Any experience with that. See other posts that say there is a certain "R" rating requirement, but not related to the F500. Looking at the on-line brochure for the F500 it says a bottom heat shield is available as optional; when I asked the dealer about one he said there is only one for the back. Geez.....this is like being in a maze.

As BeGreen mentioned . . . all you need is ember protection with a conventional install. Cement board with tile or stone would suffice.

Fantastic stove by the way.

 

[vkeks]

Thanks for all you inputs. Learned something today that didn't know which may benefit others looking at this stove. A different Jotul dealer said I need to buy a stovepipe with a damper in it, as the stove does not have a damper like our old VC did. Got me thinking, that the Jotul Oslo is not an airtight stove like the our old VC Defiant Encore. Sound correct?

 

[begreen]

This is not a tall flue and will have a bit of draft reduction by the size increase . I definitely wouldn't add a damper. A flue damper is not analogous to the Defiant's bypass damper. The cat bypass has a different function entirely. It's to allow the stove gasses to bypass the cat during startup until the stove has warmed up enough for the cat to function. A damper on an EPA stove flue is just to reduce the draft.

EPA stoves are not air tight. There will always be some secondary air feed for a clean burn.

 

[firefighterjake]

Thanks for all you inputs. Learned something today that didn't know which may benefit others looking at this stove. A different Jotul dealer said I need to buy a stovepipe with a damper in it, as the stove does not have a damper like our old VC did. Got me thinking, that the Jotul Oslo is not an airtight stove like the our old VC Defiant Encore. Sound correct?

Most of the time you do not need a damper with an EPA stove . . . to me it's just something extra in the pipe that can be a problem or get clogged with fly ash and creosote.

You are correct . . . the Oslo, like most other EPA stoves, does not completely shut down the air to the stove which helps to keep it clean burning.

My own take . . . try running this without a damper in the stove pipe. If after a month or two you think you need one it is an easy install . . . if not . . . you've saved yourself a bit of money and time by not installing something you may not need.

 

[vkeks]

All your replies and the information on this website is fantastic and has been invaluable as we have considered our options. Looks that we're going to make the move to go with an F500 Oslo, brown enamel. Will miss our red VC Defiant Encore - but not the maintenance/cost of the catalytic combustor, damper being loose, and needing to replace the expensive refractory assembly and back assembly, AGAIN. Looking forward to less moving parts to wear out, less maintenance cost, and a bit more heat output from the Oslo F500. My daughters, now at college, are looking forward to coming home over break and sitting in the best seat in the house, the futon near the woodburner. on a cold winter day.

We've decided to go with putting down hardieboard, use 'Thinset" for tile adhesion (it's non combustible), and tiles(ceramic or porcelain still TBD). Found an installer for approx. $150.00. Debating if should go with 1/4" or 1/2 " hardieboard, with consideration to height (it's surrounded by carpet other than the back wall) and consideration to weight of the stove. Leaning towards the 1/4" at this point. Any experience/thoughts would be helpful. Figured that we can go with 12"x12" tile minimizing cutting of tiles, and tho slightly larger than needed, as suggested in a prior post, more room for wood, etc.

Also wondering if anyone has experience that we will need additonal wood cut this year, as the Olso F500 is less efficient than our old VC DEncore. We normally burn 24/7 here in the snowbelt of Ohio,, from October-April, consuming 2+ cords of wood. Need to cut before the snow falls, as wood is not accessible once the 'feet of snow' start to pile up. (the realtor said it was a "winter wonderland" here when we bought the house, lol). Out house is approx 2000 square feet, with an open design for the kichen dining, and living room area. We are fortunate to have approx 11 acres of woods, consisting mostly of Ash, Maple, a little cherry.

Will post a pic, hopefully in two or three weeks if I can figure out how to do that on this website, of the finished product. The air is getting cool and crisp at night, and we miss the constant heat output of our woodstove, as the VC Encore is currently sitting on the hearth in pieces. I cannot imagine going through a winter without the warmth and steady heat of a wood stove after having had one for nearly 19 years. My deepest appreciation for all your help and inputs. Best Regards....and happy heating.

 

[begreen]

Congratulations and wishing you great success with the new stove. The old VC Encore was only more efficient when the cat and refractory was new and air passages didn't have ash in them. Don't be surprised if the Oslo uses about the same amount of wood. Use 1/2" cement board for a decent hearth underlayment.

 

[BrotherBart]

Good decision. If you weren't gonna get a great steel stove then the Oslo is a good compromise. %-P

Have I ever mentioned that I love steel wood stoves?

 

[grommal]

All your replies and the information on this website is fantastic and has been invaluable as we have considered our options. Looks that we're going to make the move to go with an F500 Oslo, brown enamel. Will miss our red VC Defiant Encore - but not the maintenance/cost of the catalytic combustor, damper being loose, and needing to replace the expensive refractory assembly and back assembly, AGAIN. Looking forward to less moving parts to wear out, less maintenance cost, and a bit more heat output from the Oslo F500. My daughters, now at college, are looking forward to coming home over break and sitting in the best seat in the house, the futon near the woodburner. on a cold winter day.

We've decided to go with putting down hardieboard, use 'Thinset" for tile adhesion (it's non combustible), and tiles(ceramic or porcelain still TBD). Found an installer for approx. $150.00. Debating if should go with 1/4" or 1/2 " hardieboard, with consideration to height (it's surrounded by carpet other than the back wall) and consideration to weight of the stove. Leaning towards the 1/4" at this point. Any experience/thoughts would be helpful. Figured that we can go with 12"x12" tile minimizing cutting of tiles, and tho slightly larger than needed, as suggested in a prior post, more room for wood, etc.

Also wondering if anyone has experience that we will need additonal wood cut this year, as the Olso F500 is less efficient than our old VC DEncore. We normally burn 24/7 here in the snowbelt of Ohio,, from October-April, consuming 2+ cords of wood. Need to cut before the snow falls, as wood is not accessible once the 'feet of snow' start to pile up. (the realtor said it was a "winter wonderland" here when we bought the house, lol). Out house is approx 2000 square feet, with an open design for the kichen dining, and living room area. We are fortunate to have approx 11 acres of woods, consisting mostly of Ash, Maple, a little cherry.

Will post a pic, hopefully in two or three weeks if I can figure out how to do that on this website, of the finished product. The air is getting cool and crisp at night, and we miss the constant heat output of our woodstove, as the VC Encore is currently sitting on the hearth in pieces. I cannot imagine going through a winter without the warmth and steady heat of a wood stove after having had one for nearly 19 years. My deepest appreciation for all your help and inputs. Best Regards....and happy heating.

Wow! That sounds like one impressive outhouse!

BTW, you'll love your Oslo. Happy burning this season!