$8-10,000 "ballpark" given to fix our smoking fireplace?

[Sharon Fires]

Hi all,
We've enjoyed daily fires in our prefab Oct to March no problem. March of this year the smoking began, nothing drastic but the living room would get a bit hazy. We immediately stopped having fires and had it professionally cleaned (which we do yearly). That made no difference so we stopped.

Wanting my fires again, I just called a local masonry company (figured glass insert needed replacing, etc, etc). What I got instead was a 30 minute diatribe about how the fireplace is not up to code, its too close to the HVAC unit, the company that makes our insert isn't in business, etc. Bottom line they won't touch it except to do a complete rebuild including raising the chimney from 8 feet to 12 feet. He gave $8000 to 10,000 ballpark.

I've attached pictures for advice, comments, sympathy, anything. All I can say is it worked fine for years and if really will cost 8 grand I'm putting a plant in there and calling it a day.

Thank you in advance for your help on this!

 

[JA600L]

You have my sympathy. Does it make any difference if you open a window when it's running?

Can you describe your house setup a bit? I'm sure you will receive a lot of good advice here.

 

[hoverwheel]

Filling in timeframes, you ran it from Oct '14 to Mar '15 with no problems, then around April '15 you started to have trouble? In MD it would be getting warmer by then, wouldn't it? Could it just be a seasonal draft issue? Or is my timeline wrong?

 

[Sharon Fires]

Thank you so much!

As for timelines, I've lived here for three years, and start having fires mid October and I don't stop until it becomes ridiculous. Every day, twice a day. For the last three years it has been no problem until this March (2015) it started smoking. Husband has been here 10 years but never really had fires. Only used those fake logs once or twice a year. I burn well aged oak and lots of it.

It is a one story 1957 rancher, open layout. Fireplace added in the 1970's (from what we were told). Opening a window didn't seem to help. As for the smoking, it used to happen occasionally whenever there was a strong wind gust, but this March it happened with every fire. Smoking isn't really bad, just hazy, and my husband says he doesn't even notice it. I was just trying to do right. Does get black around the existing door, so I was hoping to just replace that when I got this doomsday thing today...

Seasonal draft may just be it!! I've been afraid to have a fire. Tomorrow morning I am going to fire this baby up (literally) and see what happens.

 

[bholler]

Bottom line they won't touch it except to do a complete rebuild including raising the chimney from 8 feet to 12 feet. He gave $8000 to 10,000 ballpark.

What they said may be very true. If it needs repairs and the parts are not available the only option is complete replacement. But their price seems high if they are replacing it with something similar

 

[jatoxico]

Is the smoke coming out the doors or somewhere else? I ask because my old fireplace was allowing smoke to escape out of the firebox and out under the mantel. Did the sweep find any damage to the firebox or flue?

 

[bholler]

Fireplace added in the 1970's (from what we were told).

If the fireplace is from the 70's it is very possible it is time for replacement they only have a projected lifespan of about 20 years. What did they say was wrong with it that required replacement.

 

[hoverwheel]

Has it been cleaned lately? (the chimney)

 

[BrotherBart]

Quite possible it needs to be replaced. But somebody that can tell you what is wrong with it and why it needs to be replaced needs to look at it. Not somebody that only wants to give a diatribe, glad somebody else knows what that is, and a ten grand estimate.

Get a chimney sweep or somebody from a stove shop, who will probably use a contract chimney sweep anyway, out there to give you an honest assessment. Not a bunch of brick stackers from a masonry company that just want to sell a chimney.

 

[begreen]

One fact that they did provide was that the return air grille is too close to the fireplace. Code requires a minimum 10ft separation. Other than that, not too helpful.

 

[bholler]

I would for one get a clear statement of what they propose and why they think it needs to be done. Then call a few sweeps out and see what they say. Compare what you get from them all and decide from there

 

[Grisu]

I've lived here for three years, and start having fires mid October and I don't stop until it becomes ridiculous. Every day, twice a day.

What's the reason for those fires? Are you just enjoying having the ambiance of a fire all the time? Otherwise, a prefab fireplace like yours will do little in terms of heating. They send too much heated air up the flue which will be replaced by cold outside air that comes into the house. If you want to be warm I suggest an EPA-approved stove or ZC fireplace instead of your current one. Maybe that was what the stove shop tried to sell you.

 

[xman23]

So if it worked for a heating season, it should work exactly the same again. Did the sweep do a top down cleaning, removing the cap and cleaning the screen? Sounds like a classic plugged cap screen to me.

 

[bholler]

So if it worked for a heating season, it should work exactly the same again.

Not necessarily on a unit that is15 to 20 years past its projected life span. Any number of things could have gone wrong She needs to get someone else in to evaluate things

 

[Wood Duck]

I think replacing that unit with a wood burning insert should be significantly less than $10,000 and you'd have a unit that could actually contribute to the heating of your house. Of course there may be major upgrades needed that I don't know about, but get a few quotes from stove shops and sweeps before you give up.

 

[PWash]

One fact that they did provide was that the return air grille is too close to the fireplace. Code requires a minimum 10ft separation.

Doesn't the 10ft separation problem torpedo the idea for replacement of the insert? What's the alternative, relocate air return, or demolish the ZC and build elsewhere? Maybe a freestanding stove in another corner in the room?

 

[Ashful]

It may be true that this 40 year old fireplace needs replaced, but that should have nothing to do with smoke in the living room. Bottom line, your fireplace, with doors closed, should be at lower pressure than the room. If your chimney is working properly, then when heated, it is pulling air from the room into the fireplace. A leaky door will not cause smoke to "leak" into the room, on a properly operating system.

The only thing that surprises me here is that it was swept, and the problem continued. Like xman, I'd have guessed a clogged cap.

You need anyone who comes to look at this unit to explain to you why it is causing smoke in the living room. Again, unit may be in need of replacement, but why is the chimney failing to pull?

Also, do beware of masonry companies wanting to sell you on things you don't need. I had one company try to sell me a $10k chimney rebuild, based on finding wood timber in my chimney. When I had them come back to observe the "wood" was actually brick, they came up with another reason why I needed to spend $10k on a poured liner. Three subsequent sweeps verified their proposal was not only unnecessary, but violated code as a proposed solution to their faked problems.

 

[bholler]

I think replacing that unit with a wood burning insert should be significantly less than $10,000

you cant use an insert you need a zeroclearance unit which for a good one could approach $10000 total but i agree it does seem a little high even for that.

It may be true that this 40 year old fireplace needs replaced, but that should have nothing to do with smoke in the living room.

If the firebox is compromised and letting smoke between the layers of the fireplace you could get smoke in the room that way. But they did also say the chimney was to low which would contribute

 

[elmoleaf]

I don't want to needlessly alarm you, but:
That is a wood burning fireplace, correct?
By code, there is supposed to be non-combustible hearth extension in front of the fireplace. Also, assuming the adjacent walls are gypsum board/wood studs, they seem to violate the minimum required clearances from the fireplace opening for combustible materials.
Building code is a minimum standard for safety. The photos show some items that violate basic standards for a safe fireplace. If it were mine, I'd be worried that there would be just as many hazardous elements hidden from view. Please the investigate the entire installation further; your safety is worth getting expert eyeballs to look at this fireplace firsthand.

 

[mellow]

8 feet for a chimney is short, I would have it extended to 12 feet and see if that corrects the draft issue. Supposedly everything is OK since she had it cleaned, hopefully they inspected everything and all she needs is some more pipe. But yes it is to close to the HVAC vent, that could cause a weak draft to reverse and have CO/Smoke come into the house.

You didn't mention your CO/Smoke detectors going off, do you have some in that room?

 

[bholler]

I would have it extended to 12 feet and see if that corrects the draft issue. Supposedly everything is OK since she had it cleaned, hopefully they inspected everything and all she needs is some more pipe.

but with 30 to 40 yr old pipe what are the chances you will find pipe to match? And they did inspect it and said it needed replaced

 

[mellow]

We immediately stopped having fires and had it professionally cleaned (which we do yearly). That made no difference so we stopped.

And they did inspect it and said it needed replaced

I see nothing saying the chimney needed to be replaced, I agree trying to match the pipe will be a pain, it was a suggestion to look into.