edge-of-the-woods
Feeling the Heat
Definitely get the cat thermometer! Take out the guesswork on when to close the cat. HUGE help.
Advice / Review need: Regency CI2600 fireplace insert risky & costly?
- Thread starter Yingyang Picasso
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
Definitely get the cat thermometer! Take out the guesswork on when to close the cat. HUGE help.
Thanks Wolves1 for the welcome, and I'm glad you responded since you have been successful at the same endeavor.
The units come with the cat thermometer, so I have it and use it to constantly monitor and "learn" and know what's happening in the unit.
I have a question for you below, and here's my current thinking (flawed or not), just to bounce it off somebody who can probably assist...
Short chimney, equals slower draft, and harder starting when cold, requiring longer firing to get up to temp reducing wood left to burn "at temp", thus shorter burn times "at temp". "At temp" being cat engagement of 500 degrees or higher, since that's where the efficiency appears to be the greatest. (I realize burn time is essentially the start to hot to warmish cycle....)
I've noticed even when at temp (perhaps not long enough) closing the door, and subsequently closing the bypass (too soon probably) with draft control at max open tends to want to snuff out the fire and the flame dies down and out, and the temp drops. So the 30 mins "at temp" appears to be more critical in my case, and this would be consistent with a somewhat slower draft with my installation, I believe.
When I get it going moderately strong for a longer period before closing the bypass, to compensate, everything appears to work as expected. I get good flame and temp rise, but in my case I don't get a glowing cat until cat temp reaches about 1000 degrees. Once it drops below 1000, to 900 degrees for instance, with no flame reaching the cat, the glow in the cat is gone, and the temp slowly reduces from there over the next few hours. The heat output at 1000+ degrees, particularly with the blower, is impressive... the air exiting is around 350 degrees on low blower. (Note also I was careful to try to maintain a temp of 1000 -1100 degrees at that point, i.e. not let it get too high. Draft control was near 1/3 from minimum.)
I expect that the heat produced by the cat is important, and I've read the cat "creates heat" when catalyzing the smoke, but I can't help but wonder how much heat is produced by the cat when the temp is 500 versus when it's near 1000 and glowing? I *think* the cat glow is significant to the burn efficiency, since that is visible evidence that light-off and heat production is actually occurring.
I think you mentioned previously that your cat glowed at or shortly after, like within a minute or two, reaching 500 degrees.
My question:
Is it your experience that your cat begins glowing closer to 500 than to 1000 degrees?
We've only had just a few days/eves in the 30s over the last couple weeks, with only a few burns so far, and the next few days/eves are going to be unseasonably warm (like 50s/60s) for us here. So we will probably avoid another "cat glowing" burn for a while. The last one had us almost sweating... it was a little too warm for that kind of experiment, but hey, I was anxious, and I learnt a bit....
Somehow, I've lulled myself into thinking "cat glowing" is the target for peak efficiency, but it might not be. It might be for "peak heating", but for long burn efficiency the target may be closer to 500 with or without cat glow, not sure. Hoping you (or someone) can clarify...
The units come with the cat thermometer, so I have it and use it to constantly monitor and "learn" and know what's happening in the unit.
I have a question for you below, and here's my current thinking (flawed or not), just to bounce it off somebody who can probably assist...
Short chimney, equals slower draft, and harder starting when cold, requiring longer firing to get up to temp reducing wood left to burn "at temp", thus shorter burn times "at temp". "At temp" being cat engagement of 500 degrees or higher, since that's where the efficiency appears to be the greatest. (I realize burn time is essentially the start to hot to warmish cycle....)
I've noticed even when at temp (perhaps not long enough) closing the door, and subsequently closing the bypass (too soon probably) with draft control at max open tends to want to snuff out the fire and the flame dies down and out, and the temp drops. So the 30 mins "at temp" appears to be more critical in my case, and this would be consistent with a somewhat slower draft with my installation, I believe.
When I get it going moderately strong for a longer period before closing the bypass, to compensate, everything appears to work as expected. I get good flame and temp rise, but in my case I don't get a glowing cat until cat temp reaches about 1000 degrees. Once it drops below 1000, to 900 degrees for instance, with no flame reaching the cat, the glow in the cat is gone, and the temp slowly reduces from there over the next few hours. The heat output at 1000+ degrees, particularly with the blower, is impressive... the air exiting is around 350 degrees on low blower. (Note also I was careful to try to maintain a temp of 1000 -1100 degrees at that point, i.e. not let it get too high. Draft control was near 1/3 from minimum.)
I expect that the heat produced by the cat is important, and I've read the cat "creates heat" when catalyzing the smoke, but I can't help but wonder how much heat is produced by the cat when the temp is 500 versus when it's near 1000 and glowing? I *think* the cat glow is significant to the burn efficiency, since that is visible evidence that light-off and heat production is actually occurring.
I think you mentioned previously that your cat glowed at or shortly after, like within a minute or two, reaching 500 degrees.
My question:
Is it your experience that your cat begins glowing closer to 500 than to 1000 degrees?
We've only had just a few days/eves in the 30s over the last couple weeks, with only a few burns so far, and the next few days/eves are going to be unseasonably warm (like 50s/60s) for us here. So we will probably avoid another "cat glowing" burn for a while. The last one had us almost sweating... it was a little too warm for that kind of experiment, but hey, I was anxious, and I learnt a bit....
Somehow, I've lulled myself into thinking "cat glowing" is the target for peak efficiency, but it might not be. It might be for "peak heating", but for long burn efficiency the target may be closer to 500 with or without cat glow, not sure. Hoping you (or someone) can clarify...
Thanks edge-of-the-woods.
Yep. Mine came with one (had to be installed of course), and it's a must-have, so if you no have one, ditto what Edgey said above....
I've got to say this stove kicks ass. I'm consistently getting 12 hour burns without packing the stove to the gills. At the end of 12 hours the cat temp is usually at 350deg. Reading some of the more recent posts I want to say with my experience from this year compared to last year is that you definitely need to have well seasoned HARDwood. Everything I'm burning now was split either last year or this spring and it makes a huge difference. It's not good if you can see moisture bubbling out ends of the wood at all, like I had last year. Also what else is helpful is to get the firebox and cat temp up before you load the stove. This meaning, when a load burns out and just coals are left at the bottom, throw 3-4 pieces of small kindling in there to jack up the temp in there. When the cat temp is between 500-600F from the kindling burning, load the stove up full taking care not to let all the heat out. Leave the door cracked just a tad to get the wood lit and going and shut the door. You want that wood inside to really ignite. It's not always about just looking to see if the cat temp hits it's Mark and closing the bypass. Once the cat hits it's temp give the wood a few more minutes to keep growing. I usually wait till the cat temp is around 650-700F before I damper down and close the bypass. I'll close the air down first to about 3/4 closed let it settle for a few seconds then close the bypass. After a minute or so I will close the air off the rest of the way. Cat will really start to glow and you'll be able to watch the wood bake away with a great secondary burn the whole time. 10-12 hours later repeat and relax.
Wolves1
Minister of Fire
I wouldn't worry about that cat glowing as long as the temp is above 500 it should be active and giving off heat. Sorry for the late reply been very busy with the holidays.
I am getting similar results as you. Our CI2600 was installed on Dec 23rd. We have had a few days where the stove reached around 1000 degrees and the cat was glowing. Only 2 or 3 times was the whole length glowing. I have had a few other times where half of the cat glowed.
So that has left me wondering if it is okay to have the bypass fully closed if the cat isn't glowing red?
I realize there is a learning curve here. I seem to be doing okay with getting the fire going in the morning and my 1st load of decent sized wood gets everything going nicely with some cat glow. Things go wrong with second load. Stove cools down and have a hard time getting it much above 700 after that. I get a fair amount of smoke coming into the room despite me taking the time to open bypass and damper - allowing a solid 20 secs before slowly cracking the door open a bit and then about 10 seconds later opening the door fully. I do not have a moisture meter but pretty sure the wood isn't as dry as it should be. Maybe all my problems is with the 'new' wood. Dec 25, the house was 26 celcius (78F) with turkey roasting and the 2600 was running like a champ - all that was with some old firewood in the woodshed that was 5 years old.
Anyway, my main confusion is the cat. I am worried that I am closing it when I shouldn't be even if the stove has been running for a bit at 700F. Like TechFox, my cat brightly seems to engage at 900F and above.
I have read through ALL 35 pages of postings (phew) and will try raking coals forward - maybe that will assist in reaching better temps on my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc load. LOL
edge-of-the-woods
Feeling the Heat
Minty, I would be so bold as to suggest that this stove requires both a moisture meter, and for you to install the cat thermometer from Condar. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to suss out all the variables between actual stove temp and actual wood moisture content, if you can't reliably measure both of those.
Thanks for the reply. I do have the cat thermometer. Had way better results yesterday (picked out the driest wood possible) but still have lots of smoke coming in when I open the door despite taking all proper measures (open bypass/damper; waiting, cracking door, waiting, etc).
Waiting to hear from a Regency techie.
JSeery
Feeling the Heat
If your fire is burning correctly, there shouldn't even be much smoke in the firebox to come out when you reload. Is the fire pretty much just a bed of coals when you reload, or are you reloading before?
Sounds like your smoke might be due to wet wood (even your driest stuff might be too wet for this stove). That was one of my main problems my first year burning with this stove. It would also explain the fact that you aren't getting as much heat as you want out of it.
It sounds like you have a pretty good draft given your fast burn times, so I don't see why the smoke should come rolling out if you have the bypass open. Have you tried cracking a window in the same room before you open the door? That might help create a better draft to keep the smoke from coming at you. If this insert is in the downstairs of your home, it might just be sort of a low pressure area.
And in response to your previous question, and as others have said, the cat does not need to be glowing to be active.
and, did you switch off the fan before opening the door.
I have a question for the experts. why does my fireplace howl when the wind outside is stronger. I have a 23 ft liner in the chimney, and therefore a good draft. When the wind is blowing, I can't be on the same floor as the fireplace. I had the installer come back to address the issue and all he knew to do was take out the restrictor plate. This helped somewhat, but I found out from this site that it needed to be put back.
JSeery
Feeling the Heat
I've noticed some noise when the wind was howling outside. I assumed it was just increased draft going through the stove. It wasn't anything very loud, I could only detect it when I was about to reload the stove. I have my restrictor plate in and I have a pretty long flue as well. I've never heard of the problem you describe before.
My CI2600 has been having progressively worse problems with smoke lately. It does ok once it's started up and everything is hot but it's become a real challenge to get started without filling the firebox with smoke. Once that happens I can't even crack the door to give it air without setting off all the smoke detectors.
My draft, which was out of control when first installed, has disappeared. I'm thinking either my damper is out of whack or the last batch of wood I got last year (before I had a moister meter) sooted up my chimney. Sweep is scheduled. :/
My draft, which was out of control when first installed, has disappeared. I'm thinking either my damper is out of whack or the last batch of wood I got last year (before I had a moister meter) sooted up my chimney. Sweep is scheduled. :/
Wolves1
Minister of Fire
I thinking your correct with ether one of the two. I would first try to open a window to see if you can get a draft. Also when you close the bypass do the flames change? I can see the problem people have with the bypass not closing all the way and over firing but can't understand how it can get stuck closed. When you take newspaper light it put it up to the bypass do you get a draft?
Window opening doesn't seem to do much. I do notice that I have to make sure the furnace isn't running at startup. There's an air return in the same room as the fireplace and at this point that's killing what draft I still have until the fire gets hot.
Switching to bypass does draw the flames toward the bypass inlet as I would expect but the pull is weak either way. I'm tempted to buy a brush and take a shot a cleaning it myself just to see if that helps but I'd like a professional to see it before I do anything so I can get a clear understanding of what's going on and why this thing has shutdown so quickly.
Switching to bypass does draw the flames toward the bypass inlet as I would expect but the pull is weak either way. I'm tempted to buy a brush and take a shot a cleaning it myself just to see if that helps but I'd like a professional to see it before I do anything so I can get a clear understanding of what's going on and why this thing has shutdown so quickly.
Wolves1
Minister of Fire
I finally got a sweep to come and look at my insert. They cleaned 2.5 gallons of creosote out of the flue. This is from a season and a half of burning. I bought wood last season and didn't have a tester, but this season everything I'm burning has tested under 20% moisture.
They pointed out some installation problems which may have contributed. The pipe is not insulated. I thought the installer said that it would be but I checked the paperwork and it's not written anywhere. They said that the cap was pretty badly clogged and that the cap used did not have sufficient venting area to ensure a good draft. They recommend insulating the pipe and replacing the cap with a better venting one which I'll probably have done over the summer.
With the system cleaned out the fire is blazing again and there's not smoke spillage. I'll probably need to put the restrictor plate back in to keep the fire manageable.
They pointed out some installation problems which may have contributed. The pipe is not insulated. I thought the installer said that it would be but I checked the paperwork and it's not written anywhere. They said that the cap was pretty badly clogged and that the cap used did not have sufficient venting area to ensure a good draft. They recommend insulating the pipe and replacing the cap with a better venting one which I'll probably have done over the summer.
With the system cleaned out the fire is blazing again and there's not smoke spillage. I'll probably need to put the restrictor plate back in to keep the fire manageable.
2.5 gallons is a major amount of creosote. The flue needs to be cleaned more frequently. How is the wood moisture being tested? On the end grain of the wood or on the freshly exposed face of re-split wood?
I have a tester from Lowes and test on a fresh split along the grain. I didn't have the tester last season so I have no idea what that wood measured but I don't believe it was seasoned as long as the seller claimed.
My installer said "every two years or so" when I asked how often to clean it. Obviously I'll be doing it more often now. It will be interesting to see how it does next time around with these issues corrected.
With good, fully seasoned wood your installer might be correct. But that is a big assumption. Get dry wood if at all possible. It will make more heat and less creosote.
Hello All,
This thread is fantastic!
Have had my insert for only 2 weeks. I can't seem to prevent build up on the lower corners of the glass. It is on the lighter side and cleans fairly easily. I'm burning it really nice and hot and still seems to be an issue. The installer forgot the temp probe, which he is coming back soon to install. Currently just waiting the recommended times plus a bit to get the combustor going. Also, is it true that you don't want flames hitting the combuster? Seems impossible to achieve. I normally keep my main dampener half way open during the night. Any less and the build up gets worse. My wood seems well seasoned, but probably not as well as it could be. I live in New Mexico where we really don't need moisture detectors. Thanks for the replies in advance.
J
This thread is fantastic!
Have had my insert for only 2 weeks. I can't seem to prevent build up on the lower corners of the glass. It is on the lighter side and cleans fairly easily. I'm burning it really nice and hot and still seems to be an issue. The installer forgot the temp probe, which he is coming back soon to install. Currently just waiting the recommended times plus a bit to get the combustor going. Also, is it true that you don't want flames hitting the combuster? Seems impossible to achieve. I normally keep my main dampener half way open during the night. Any less and the build up gets worse. My wood seems well seasoned, but probably not as well as it could be. I live in New Mexico where we really don't need moisture detectors. Thanks for the replies in advance.
J
Last edited:
Wolves1
Minister of Fire
The black on the glass will always build up. When you fill the stove with wood on very cold days the black burns off.
Most of it burns off with a hot fire. Thanks to a suggestion here I've found that scraping with a glass cleaning blade is much more effective at cleaning it up than scrubbing.
I had my ci2600 installed at the end of 2015. It worked well through out the winter but not sure if it's operating to it's full potential. With the damper open and the bypass fully opened/extended it seems as though enough air is getting in... but not going up/out. Like extremely slow to the point of smoke building up more than one would think. I'm in the process of running a new electrical wire for the blower motor of my unit. This involved pulling out the unit, removing the liner from the collar. Looking straight down I've got a good view of how the bypass and the upper shield operate (link below). Both sides of the upper shield is attached to the pins but one would think the Upper shield would move in conjunction with the bypass while opening AND closing. Even tho this question has already been answered can someone please double-confirm that this is the correct operation? Thanks
Ref Page31: post 758 & 760
That's how mine works. I believe the ability to slide it out of the way is for cleaning.
Are you burning well seasoned wood? After a season and a half my chimney got choked down enough from build-up to make it impossible to burn. Cleaning fixed it. The sweep diagnosed the cause as an uninsulated flue and too small a cap.
Are you burning well seasoned wood? After a season and a half my chimney got choked down enough from build-up to make it impossible to burn. Cleaning fixed it. The sweep diagnosed the cause as an uninsulated flue and too small a cap.
Thanks for confirming for me. I use only shed kept seasoned wood and it's a new liner/cap, I'll check the size of the cap when I get home today.
During initial start-up I'll typically leave the door cracked for maybe 5-10 minutes for good airflow. Then I'll load up the bigger pieces, close the door, let it burn to around 500F, then I'll shut the damper and bypass, blower on high and let it ride. My existing unit was just an insert without the liner so I think it's amazing how much longer the ci2600 burns for. Well... no wheres close to the promised 14+ hours on a full load but still impressive (comparatively speaking). It's more like 5-7 hours of burn time. My biggest issue is the glass window on the front of the unit. When I let it burn overnight and it dies down I'm guessing the smoke begins to build up which turns the glass jet black. I had to clean it multiple times throughout the winter. Any suggestions?
- Status
