Alderlea t5 Burn Time

[mcgster]

Hello everyone, this is my first time posting but i have certainly taken in alot of knowledge browsing the forums.

I recently installed an Alderlea t5 wood stove in my 1880's house. I am having difficulty getting burn times in excess of 3 to 4 hours even with the damper turned down to a very low level. I'm burning maple / yellow birch primarily and i'm not certain of the moisture content (moisture meter on order) but, it does light fairly easily.
I have read numerous people posting they are able to get 8 to 9 hour burn time with this stove it seems hard to believe with the times i have been getting!
Thanks in advance!

 

[oldspark]

Is the fire reduced when you move the lever for the primary air?
What do you have left after 3 or 4 hours (just coals)
What is the stove top temp after 3 or 4 hours.
Welcome to the forum and you have a nice looking install there.

 

[Todd]

We need to know what your definition of burn time is. Most will see 2+ or - hour flame show while the wood off gases then coals for many more hours of heat. If your coal bed is still producing a warm stove and your able to reload without kindling after say 8 hours, that is typical for a non cat stove of your size.

 

[BrowningBAR]

How many sq ft are you trying to heat? How drafty is the house? What are your stove top temps?

 

[Grisu]

In addition to the other questions: How big are your splits? How many do you load at a time? Do you load them in a warm or cold stove?
If you see flames for only 4 to 5 hours that is normal. The stove will also give a lot of heat during the coaling stage afterwards. If the stove is still warm after 8 to 9 hours and has enough coals for an easy reload your burn time is fine.

 

[madison]

I have read numerous people posting they are able to get 8 to 9 hour burn time with this stove it seems hard to believe with the times i have been getting!
View attachment 116894

The 8-9 hrs would be the max time that you could potentially be able to relight the stove without using a match, ie a few remaining burning embers that with some kindling may reignite.

Burn time is not effective heating time.

You could extend your 3-4 hrs a bit, by using larger sized pieces.

 

[mcgster]

Thanks for all the replies, this site is truly a great resource (due to its users!)

I have ordered a stove top thermometer as well as a stove pipe thermometer but, they haven't arrived yet. As such i'm not able to answer accurately on the temps but i would say after 4 hours the stove is luke warm, some heat radiates out of the glass but the stove itself radiates minimal heat. I would definitely have to rekindle after 8 or even 6 hours.
The house is 30'x30' and quite drafty. I have insulated walls, attic and foundation (spray foam + 2x6 w r20) and done everything i can to seal it up but it isn't getting any younger!

 

[madison]

Welcome to the forum. As you peruse the threads, you will no doubt see numerous responses to upsize the stove if hearth space permits, as you can always burn a smaller fire in a large stove ... We briefly considered the T5, but decided on the T6 - for the "bigger is better" reason. Spousal approval always trumps any of these decisions, and she approved.

 

[Grisu]

Thanks for all the replies, this site is truly a great resource (due to its users!)

I have ordered a stove top thermometer as well as a stove pipe thermometer but, they haven't arrived yet. As such i'm not able to answer accurately on the temps but i would say after 4 hours the stove is luke warm, some heat radiates out of the glass but the stove itself radiates minimal heat. I would definitely have to rekindle after 8 or even 6 hours.

That suggests it is the way you operate the stove not your house which is the problem. Have you tried it like this?

See that you have a good bed of hot coals and a warm stove before loading it for the night. Put as many splits as you can fit in up to the top of the firebricks maybe leaving only a 2 inch gap to the baffle in the top. Let the wood catch fire and start a good burn, then close door. Leave the air all the way open until the wood is fully engulfed then start to stepwise close the air, maybe a quarter every 5 min. When the air is completely closed you should have nice secondaries in the top of the firebox and the stove top should read 500 to 600 F. If you have lots of cold coals left in the morning it could mean that your wood is not fully seasoned, check it with a moisture meter.

In the morning put on a bunch of smaller splits filling half to 2/3 of the firebox. Leave the air open a little bit (but not all the way once you have a good fire) to get a quick hot fire going; that should get the stove and the house back up fast. Once that fire dies down fill the stove up again similar to what I described for an overnight burn and let it cruise during the day. I manage to do a quick, hot fire in the morning (~2 h), two fill-ups during the day (~6 h each) and one overnight burn (~10 h) with nice dry hardwood in the PE Super insert which has the same firebox as the Alderlea.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The house is 30'x30' and quite drafty.

There's your problem. The T5 is only a 2 cu ft stove.

I'm assuming this 30'x30' is a two story home? So, you are at about 1800 sq ft of draftiness?

 

[Hardrockmaple]

Thanks for all the replies, this site is truly a great resource (due to its users!)

I have ordered a stove top thermometer as well as a stove pipe thermometer but, they haven't arrived yet. As such i'm not able to answer accurately on the temps but i would say after 4 hours the stove is luke warm, some heat radiates out of the glass but the stove itself radiates minimal heat. I would definitely have to rekindle after 8 or even 6 hours.
The house is 30'x30' and quite drafty. I have insulated walls, attic and foundation (spray foam + 2x6 w r20) and done everything i can to seal it up but it isn't getting any younger!

Dunno which part of NB your in but for future reference you can pick up those thermometers and moisture meter at any Kent, Canadian Tire, Home Depot etc. rather than "ordering" them. For example; I picked up a SBI branded pipe thermometer just yesterday at the local Home Hardware for $14.95.

As to 'burn time', I put around 2/3 load in my 3 cu.ft. stove yesterday morning around 7 a.m., ran the stove top up to 500F, shut the primary air down and left the house, returned around 7:30 pm, stove top at 200F, raked coals forward, threw in a few pieces of Fatwood, some kiln dried hardwood kindling, 3 small splits and whoosh, instant fire, let everything burn down (appr. 20 min.), stovetop at 500f repeat. From that process I'd say I got 2-4 hrs. of 400-600F stovetop and slowly cool off 'til I re-opened the door. I call that 6-8 hrs of.serious heat.

Hope this helps.

 

[mcgster]

Welcome to the forum. As you peruse the threads, you will no doubt see numerous responses to upsize the stove if hearth space permits, as you can always burn a smaller fire in a large stove ... We briefly considered the T5, but decided on the T6 - for the "bigger is better" reason. Spousal approval always trumps any of these decisions, and she approved.

I actually asked about the t6 and my local store said there was no way i would need it.. no i can clearly see that i do but i'm sure there is nothing they will do for me at this point.

 

[mcgster]

There's your problem. The T5 is only a 2 cu ft stove.

I'm assuming this 30'x30' is a two story home? So, you are at about 1800 sq ft of draftiness?

1800 on a good day, my bottom floor is above grade on three sides so you could even say 2700 sf of draftiness... i have a crawlspace underneath that as well

 

[madison]

Never hurts to try to make a deal, if so motivated.

Dealer makes a profit on the new sell, and potentially could resell the t5 ....

~ 3300 sqft here with cathedral ceilings and walls of glass and sliding doors (inefficient to say the least). t6 (with blower) can heat the entire home when outdoor temps are mid 20's. Less than that and the heat comes on when the stove burns down overnight.

A blower on the t5 will really make a big difference, we added the blower after the first yr, two screws.

 

[BrowningBAR]

1800 on a good day, my bottom floor is above grade on three sides so you could even say 2700 sf of draftiness... i have a crawlspace underneath that as well

Yeah, you should have really gone with the T6. How did you decide the T5 was the correct choice? Even with a well insulated home, 2,000--2,700 sq ft is too much for the T5 to handle for the most part. Then, add draftiness, and that stove is completely over matched. Something larger than the T6 would also work, like the Blaze King King or the 30NC.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I actually asked about the t6 and my local store said there was no way i would need it.. no i can clearly see that i do but i'm sure there is nothing they will do for me at this point.

Dealers and stove salesmen, for the most part, are uneducated clowns. Most have no idea how to run the stoves that they sell. My experience is that they try and lead you to what ever stove they think you can afford whether it will meet your needs or not. I have seen several times where they push someone away from the larger stove since the smaller one is more affordable and feel they can get an easy sale out of it.

If cost is now a problem, you can get an Englander 30nc for about $700. It may not be the look you want, but it is a 3.5 cu ft firebox, it is reliable, and it will heat a lot better than a 2 cu ft firebox.

I suggest this only as a solution if you can not afford the three grand on the T6 since you just paid 2500 on the T5 and are now stuck with it. Get the 30 for $700, be a lot warmer, sell the T5 when you can, buy the T6 after that (if that is the look you desire), and then sell the 30nc later.

 

[oldspark]

I actually asked about the t6 and my local store said there was no way i would need it.. no i can clearly see that i do but i'm sure there is nothing they will do for me at this point.

Well thats sad, local store gave you some bad advice, must be a guy who has never heated with wood and only knows numbers.

 

[begreen]

As much as I love these stoves it could be the wrong one for the application. Based on the home though I agree that you need a 3 cu ft stove. In cast iron I would suggest a more radiant stove like the Quadrafire Isle Royale, Jotul F600, Hearthstone Manchester, or Lopi Cape Cod. In steel there are even more choices. A Blaze King Ashford 30 would be one I would consider. But there are other stoves that could work well too. FWIW, our local dealer refused to sell me a T6 for our 2000 sq ft house. He was wrong. We got a T6 from Tom Oyen and haven't regretted it for a moment.

That said, you should be getting better performance from the T5. Member Loon had a similar complaint until he changed how he was running the stove. You should be getting more like 8-10 hr. average burns so tell us how you run the stove.

I'm wondering how tall is the flue on this stove? Describe how are you setting the air control throughout the burn. How thick are the wood splits that are being loaded. Are you loading N/S or E/W?

 

[mcgster]

I would say this is exactly the case, just someone going by the numbers and not having hands on experience.

I have called the local shop and spoke with the manager about going to the T6, she is going to have one of their tech's call me before she discusses what it would cost to change out.

I have had heating bills over 800$ / month with electric (i'm running a heat pump for the swing months / 20kw heat coil dec/ jan / feb) so if i had to spend a bit more to get the larger firebox i would find a way to make it work. If it were only the $500 difference i wouldn't be concerned but who knows what they are going to charge. If it is outrageous i may look into doing what BrowningBar suggested.
Thanks again!

 

[begreen]

Getting an Englander 30NC (it will be more like $899 in peak season) is not a bad solution at all. Like I said, there are a lot of good steel stoves out there. The Englander is one of the better, reliable bargains on the market. It will be more radiant than the Alderlea series and with a lot more capacity than the T5. The 30NC has much more stringent hearth requirements. How was your hearth built and what R value insulation does it have?

How much flue from stove top to the chimney cap?

 

[mcgster]

The hearth is porcelain tile 48 by 54, i built it to the spec from the local shop. Any idea what the requirements would be for the t6 / 30NC

 

[begreen]

I think the 30NC requires R= 1.5 hearth insulation. That would mean a few layers of Durock NexGen cement board under the tile. The T6 is ember protection only so the current hearth would work for that model.

How tall is the flue from stove top to the chimney cap?

 

[Hardrockmaple]

The hearth is porcelain tile 48 by 54, i built it to the spec from the local shop. Any idea what the requirements would be for the t6 / 30NC

In Canada you cam buy the Englander 30NC version at Canadian tire:

TimberRidge: http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/t...e-2200-sq-ft-e-p-a-0642845p.html#.Unp4ESSKJUp

At Kent you can get the: Drolet (broken link removed to http://www.kent.ca/kbs/en/product.jsp?skuId=7160302&navAction=jump&navId=1206&prdId=7160302&catalogId=1206)

 

[mcgster]

Hmm good question, it is a fairly tall house. Ceilings in the basement are 10ft main floor 12 ft top floor 10ft so thats 32 ft there (add in 2ft for floor joists) 34ft and i would add on 8 ft for the attic / masonry chimney. 42ft... This seems a bit much but it would be close i'm sure.
The tech called back and disagreed completely with me on the upgrade.. he said he is certain its capable of handling it. Disagreement aside he said they would swap it out for the t6/summit recertify the install and remove the old stove for 1381....

 

[begreen]

I think the chimney is part of the problem. The draft is too strong. I suspect that the flame is being sucked right up the flue. If this is the case a T6 is not going to solve the strong draft issue. Your stove shop should have caught this. Anything over 30ft. is considered too tall. The stove prefers a chimney half the current height.

Before giving up on the T5 put in a simple key damper about 18" above the flue collar on the stove. After the stove is burning strongly, close the key damper all the way. That should slow down the burn a lot and dramatically increase the heat output of the stove.

Note, the Summit should be about $150 less than the T6. What other brand stoves do they sell?