Another Vermont Castings Dauntless Problematic Stove

[bholler]

no, it goes from the 6 on the back of the stove, up about 3 inches then a 45 degree 6 inch pipe another couple inched, then a 8 in flare pipe that's like 6 inches, the 8 inch end going into the wall where the mason put an 8 inch pipe thimble through the block chimney into the larger rectangular ceramic chimney flu. so the amount of pipe I am looking at is just a couple feet, up and over. So there is an air expansion going on at the end of this 90 degree angled pipe. You'd think the guy who runs the place and sold me the pipe would have seen the problem before, if that as a source of this problem. I don;t think running a 6 inch pipe another couple inches out to the flu is going to make that much a difference. I have the same set up downstairs with my yotel, no problems, thankfully. I assume the mason put the 8 inch thimble through the new block chimney as a way of accommodating various pipe sizes.The guys that dropped it off could see very clearly what the set up was too. I don;t think it's that uncommon to have an 8 inch thimble going into the wall through your block/brick chimney.

Oh so it's not a 6" stainless lined chimney. I thought you said it was. How tall is the chimney for the vc?

 

[GrumpyDad]

no, it goes from the 6 on the back of the stove, up about 3 inches then a 45 degree 6 inch pipe another couple inched, then a 8 in flare pipe that's like 6 inches, the 8 inch end going into the wall where the mason put an 8 inch pipe thimble through the block chimney into the larger rectangular ceramic chimney flu. so the amount of pipe I am looking at is just a couple feet, up and over. So there is an air expansion going on at the end of this 90 degree angled pipe. You'd think the guy who runs the place and sold me the pipe would have seen the problem before, if that as a source of this problem. I don;t think running a 6 inch pipe another couple inches out to the flu is going to make that much a difference. I have the same set up downstairs with my yotel, no problems, thankfully. I assume the mason put the 8 inch thimble through the new block chimney as a way of accommodating various pipe sizes.The guys that dropped it off could see very clearly what the set up was too. I don;t think it's that uncommon to have an 8 inch thimble going into the wall through your block/brick chimney.

Glen I would seriously consider posting some pictures as well if you get a chance.
To be honest when you mentioned how you were setup, the first thing that struck me was the fact that this all goes into a clay square chimney flu. That may be acceptable in your area, and I dont know how big that is inside that chimney, but that may also be contributing to poor draft due to the size or maybe the cooling of gases. I would seriously consider getting a second opinion by a certified chimney expert. Certified being the key here. (and there are some on here too, who have given you some thoughts as well)

Also for every 45 I believe you must add some much height to the chimney cap, in order to achieve proper draft. For a 90 degree it's 5', but Im not sure what two 45's would result in. If once it goes into the chimney, if it just dumps off at that point into a large chimney, then that's probably adding more to the problem too. Which may be why you are getting smoke just piling up in that exit point and just pushing back into the house.

you mentioned the Jotul as if it has the same setup. They dont share the same chimney do they?
I think you need to drop the consideration of the Jotul. It's 8' below and has a much better draft. So you are comparing apples to oranges there. And it's a different stove all together.

 

[bholler]

and how would you know there is 8 feet more of chimney for the downstairs stove? If you have been on these boards you would have known these complaints, right?

Well typically if one stove is upstairs and one is down stairs there is about an 8' difference between them. And yes I know of these complaints they are pretty much the same complaints people have about vc stoves for the past 30 years or so. But you can definitely minimize the issues with the best fuel and setup.

 

[stoveliker]

Having a bend in the flue a few inches off the stove also won't help with the draft. (I second the question for pics to clarify the set up, though.)

 

[Woodsplitter67]

the wood is from a local known source, cut and split last winter/spring..... the same wood runs fine in my yotel, downstairs. I am hyper drying the wood next to the stove prior to use and it still doesn't run well. That same hyper dry wood sparks right up downstairs to the point I really have to throttle back my yotel some. It aint the wood, a mix of oak, beech, maple, ash, birch.....yeah, an occasional beech and birch piece might seem a little punky, but they are rare, and any oak is hyper dried to the point of cracking.

Ok.. so what your saying is that you have no idea of what the moisture content is of the wood actually is. You need to get a moisture meter..

I can say this for certainly .. if what your describing is true regarding your wood source.. you wood is definitely subpar.. The wood your purchasing is less then a year split.. guaranteed..its sitting in a pile.. not stacked.. wood doesn't truly season like that PERIOD..

There is not such thing as hyper drying the wood neither.. by sitting the wood near the stove you will help dry the outside to some degree but that is it.

Oak in my area will season in 18 months if set up properly.. your farther north as you suggested.. so your probably closer to 24.. but yet your burning oak of less then 12 months.. so yeah.. your wood sucks..

There are a a number of really smart people here trying to help you out.. you may want to try to come off a little more receptive and appreciative.. all here donate there time to people like yourself that are obviously struggling..

If you want to learn how to really season wood in a short period of time.. look in my signature and follow the instructions ..

I know that one of your replies was how wrong I was about your situation.. Im not wrong at all.. you definitely have draft and subpar wood issues.. the thing is.. will you start to recognize it and help yourself fix it

 

[glensimpson]

And about 8' more chimney for downstairs right?

I'm not defending the vc. They certainly have issues but your setup makes no sense. What jotul is it btw?

wow, my dauntless is not going out in down draft today. I can actually feel heat coming off it. What is different? Not the flu, chimney, wood... it's the weather.... we have a high pressure system over head with expanding, cooling air. This would explain why a couple evenings the Dauntless seemed to want to run somewhat like a normal stove. Anytime low pressure systems have been over head with descending, compressing air, this dauntless struggles. Would running a 6 inch pipe all the way to the flu (another few inches), rather than the 6 to 8 expander, solve the problem. Is there an 8 to 6 sleeve for this purpose, because it's known as a potential problem in the industry? I doubt it as the pressure from the weather system is omnipresent, so to speak. It's hard to accept a stove that only runs OK when high pressure weather systems are present.

Back to the 6 to 8 expansion pipe going into the wall.....why would the guy who sold me the stove and served me the pipe not have run into this problem before, if in fact it is part of the problem? Why was the necessity of the catalyst minimized in the sales process, if in fact it is important? If I had heard, " you really need this for the stove to run right and it's something that is expensive and has to be replaced," I surely would had some important information to consider in my purchase decision. Is the crushed element that looks like it's a hook up for a fan part of the problem? It was delivered that way, and with no intent to put a fan on the stove, I thought it was insignificant. ??

The yotel doesn't have a name on it, maybe on the back I can't see well..... it's the smallest one that they make ...the little square box with all glass front.

 

[bholler]

wow, my dauntless is not going out in down draft today. I can actually feel heat coming off it. What is different? Not the flu, chimney, wood... it's the weather.... we have a high pressure system over head with expanding, cooling air. This would explain why a couple evenings the Dauntless seemed to want to run somewhat like a normal stove. Anytime low pressure systems have been over head with descending, compressing air, this dauntless struggles. Would running a 6 inch pipe all the way to the flu (another few inches), rather than the 6 to 8 expander, solve the problem. Is there an 8 to 6 sleeve for this purpose, because it's known as a potential problem in the industry? I doubt it as the pressure from the weather system is omnipresent, so to speak. It's hard to accept a stove that only runs OK when high pressure weather systems are present.

Back to the 6 to 8 expansion pipe going into the wall.....why would the guy who sold me the stove and served me the pipe not have run into this problem before, if in fact it is part of the problem? Why was the necessity of the catalyst minimized in the sales process, if in fact it is important? If I had heard, " you really need this for the stove to run right and it's something that is expensive and has to be replaced," I surely would had some important information to consider in my purchase decision. Is the crushed element that looks like it's a hook up for a fan part of the problem? It was delivered that way, and with no intent to put a fan on the stove, I thought it was insignificant. ??

The yotel doesn't have a name on it, maybe on the back I can't see well..... it's the smallest one that they make ...the little square box with all glass front.

The fact that it runs ok with colder outside temps tell me you have marginal draft. Lower outside temps increases your draft and makes it work better. Running 6" all the way to the chimney will help some. Not sure if it will be enough though because your still going into an oversized uninsulated chimney. How tall is the chimney?

 

[bholler]

wow, my dauntless is not going out in down draft today. I can actually feel heat coming off it. What is different? Not the flu, chimney, wood... it's the weather.... we have a high pressure system over head with expanding, cooling air. This would explain why a couple evenings the Dauntless seemed to want to run somewhat like a normal stove. Anytime low pressure systems have been over head with descending, compressing air, this dauntless struggles. Would running a 6 inch pipe all the way to the flu (another few inches), rather than the 6 to 8 expander, solve the problem. Is there an 8 to 6 sleeve for this purpose, because it's known as a potential problem in the industry? I doubt it as the pressure from the weather system is omnipresent, so to speak. It's hard to accept a stove that only runs OK when high pressure weather systems are present.

Back to the 6 to 8 expansion pipe going into the wall.....why would the guy who sold me the stove and served me the pipe not have run into this problem before, if in fact it is part of the problem? Why was the necessity of the catalyst minimized in the sales process, if in fact it is important? If I had heard, " you really need this for the stove to run right and it's something that is expensive and has to be replaced," I surely would had some important information to consider in my purchase decision. Is the crushed element that looks like it's a hook up for a fan part of the problem? It was delivered that way, and with no intent to put a fan on the stove, I thought it was insignificant. ??

The yotel doesn't have a name on it, maybe on the back I can't see well..... it's the smallest one that they make ...the little square box with all glass front.

And the people selling you the stove were trying to make a sale. Telling you you should pay more for a cat could make them loose the sale. Telling you you need to line your chimney with an appropriately sizer liner might make them loose it

 

[glensimpson]

Ok.. so what your saying is that you have no idea of what the moisture content is of the wood actually is. You need to get a moisture meter..

I can say this for certainly .. if what your describing is true regarding your wood source.. you wood is definitely subpar.. The wood your purchasing is less then a year split.. guaranteed..its sitting in a pile.. not stacked.. wood doesn't truly season like that PERIOD..

There is not such thing as hyper drying the wood neither.. by sitting the wood near the stove you will help dry the outside to some degree but that is it.

Oak in my area will season in 18 months if set up properly.. your farther north as you suggested.. so your probably closer to 24.. but yet your burning oak of less then 12 months.. so yeah.. your wood sucks..

There are a a number of really smart people here trying to help you out.. you may want to try to come off a little more receptive and appreciative.. all here donate there time to people like yourself that are obviously struggling..

If you want to learn how to really season wood in a short period of time.. look in my signature and follow the instructions ..

I know that one of your replies was how wrong I was about your situation.. Im not wrong at all.. you definitely have draft and subpar wood issues.. the thing is.. will you start to recognize it and help yourself fix it

dude,

The wood is parched dry, cooked. Come take a look. Yeah, last summer's wet, humid weather affected people's wood piles... I am well aware of this, as others have this issue too this winter with their wood....and their solution as is mine, is to make absolutely sure their wood is good and dry by stacking wood near heat for many, many days I have cut, split, stacked, and burned wood for over 4 decades now, k. If you saw my yotel downstair running on the same wood you'd take your "many smart people trying to help" comment back. Do you communicate with others this way? Had to ask! Reaks a bit of gaslighting.,... come see my yotel run on the same wood, k buck-o.

 

[bholler]

dude,

The wood is parched dry, cooked. Come take a look. Yeah, last summer's wet, humid weather affected people's wood piles... I am well aware of this, as others have this issue too this winter with their wood....and their solution as is mine, is to make absolutely sure their wood is good and dry by stacking wood near heat for many, many days I have cut, split, stacked, and burned wood for over 4 decades now, k. If you saw my yotel downstair running on the same wood you'd take your "many smart people trying to help" comment back. Do you communicate with others this way? Had to ask! Reaks a bit of gaslighting.,... come see my yotel run on the same wood, k buck-o.

Ok your jotul isn't a down draft stove and is on a taller chimney. You wood may be perfectly dry we don't know. But we know you have draft issues.

I would bet if you switched the less draft sensitive jotul to the shorter chimney and the vc to the taller one it would work better.

 

[GrumpyDad]

wow, my dauntless is not going out in down draft today. I can actually feel heat coming off it. What is different? Not the flu, chimney, wood... it's the weather.... we have a high pressure system over head with expanding, cooling air. This would explain why a couple evenings the Dauntless seemed to want to run somewhat like a normal stove. Anytime low pressure systems have been over head with descending, compressing air, this dauntless struggles. Would running a 6 inch pipe all the way to the flu (another few inches), rather than the 6 to 8 expander, solve the problem. Is there an 8 to 6 sleeve for this purpose, because it's known as a potential problem in the industry? I doubt it as the pressure from the weather system is omnipresent, so to speak. It's hard to accept a stove that only runs OK when high pressure weather systems are present.

Back to the 6 to 8 expansion pipe going into the wall.....why would the guy who sold me the stove and served me the pipe not have run into this problem before, if in fact it is part of the problem? Why was the necessity of the catalyst minimized in the sales process, if in fact it is important? If I had heard, " you really need this for the stove to run right and it's something that is expensive and has to be replaced," I surely would had some important information to consider in my purchase decision. Is the crushed element that looks like it's a hook up for a fan part of the problem? It was delivered that way, and with no intent to put a fan on the stove, I thought it was insignificant. ??

The yotel doesn't have a name on it, maybe on the back I can't see well..... it's the smallest one that they make ...the little square box with all glass front.

The guy who sold you the stove, did he come out and do an inspection or have a certified chimney expert determine what was required to safely and properly install this stove? It really sounds like you have a drafting issue. You have not mention how tall the chimney is from the stove pipe if you drew an imaginary line from the top of the stove to the top of the chimney. That's rather important.
And it sounds like your stove pipe just dumps off inside a larger chimney, which isn't permitted in my area but maybe it is yours. However that will impact draft as well for you.

And as mentioned by others and myself, get a moisture meter, please. Wood split by a guy you know is meaningless, even if he goes to church twice on Sunday and volunteers at the local homeless shelter on Saturday. The wood split sitting in a pile in the open in the NE states will never season enough for today's stoves. It really starts to season once it is stacked, covered on top and exposed to the sun and the wind.

Im personally more worried about your chimney setup than your wood and would be more than curious to see what the inside of your flue looks like at this point. It is probably in need of cleaning too.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

dude,

The wood is parched dry, cooked. Come take a look. Yeah, last summer's wet, humid weather affected people's wood piles... I am well aware of this, as others have this issue too this winter with their wood....and their solution as is mine, is to make absolutely sure their wood is good and dry by stacking wood near heat for many, many days I have cut, split, stacked, and burned wood for over 4 decades now, k. If you saw my yotel downstair running on the same wood you'd take your "many smart people trying to help" comment back. Do you communicate with others this way? Had to ask! Reaks a bit of gaslighting.,... come see my yotel run on the same wood, k buck-o.

Seriously.. I wouldn't take back the smart people are trying to help you.. because they are.. your trying to add credibility to yourself with the 4 Decades statement.. just do yourself a favor.. buy a moisture meter.. its like 20bucks on amazon.. Youll actually see how wet your wood actually is.. and again.. sitting the wood by the stove produces very little in the way of results.. If you listen to the others.. you can't compare the one stove to the other because.. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.. and with all of you 4 Decades worth of experience you might know that..

 

[SkipperH]

I bought a Dauntless this last fall. To say I am disappointed would be an understatement. This stove is horrible, absolutely horrible, in so many ways. It's so bad I think there is a legal case for some sort of fraud case. Literally, sitting here in a cold, smoke smelling house with chunks of charcoal that won't burn unless the stove is in updraft all the time. I have a brand new chimney and flu with no draw or draft problems and hyper dry wood. It is sickening to me to think they are getting 3.5k from folks for this piece of junk. VC is apparently not the same VC it once was.... frustrating.

I will never be convinced that the VC Dauntless is NOT a problematic wood stove. This appliance still frustrates its owners despite checking off all the boxes of proper wood moisture content, draft, start-up and reloading procedures found in the owners manual. If it were as some suggest, that this stove is a stove you must learn to master, as it is of a different design all together, then VC would provide after sale extensive guidance to its customers through their dealers. Dauntless customers are seeking but not receiving help from their dealers so they come to these forums out of desperation. Second and third season used Dauntless stoves for sale are becoming plentiful, not a good sign of satisfied customers.

 

[bholler]

I will never be convinced that the VC Dauntless is NOT a problematic wood stove. This appliance still frustrates its owners despite checking off all the boxes of proper wood moisture content, draft, start-up and reloading procedures found in the owners manual. If it were as some suggest, that this stove is a stove you must learn to master, as it is of a different design all together, then VC would provide after sale extensive guidance to its customers through their dealers. Dauntless customers are seeking but not receiving help from their dealers so they come to these forums out of desperation. Second and third season used Dauntless stoves for sale are becoming plentiful, not a good sign of satisfied customers.

I really don't see anyone here saying they are not problematic. Pretty much everyone is saying they are. But that doesn't mean that there aren't things that can be done to over come those problems like making sure your draft fuel and operation procedure is right.

 

[glensimpson]

Seriously.. I wouldn't take back the smart people are trying to help you.. because they are.. your trying to add credibility to yourself with the 4 Decades statement.. just do yourself a favor.. buy a moisture meter.. its like 20bucks on amazon.. Youll actually see how wet your wood actually is.. and again.. sitting the wood by the stove produces very little in the way of results.. If you listen to the others.. you can't compare the one stove to the other because.. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.. and with all of you 4 Decades worth of experience you might know that..

I know, I think you like to include yourself in the smart people category. If you saw the wood burning well downstairs and not up, would you think it's the wood? The guy I buy it from probably sells 1,000 cords a year. I have bought his hardwood for over 10 years. STack and cover it after delivery. Maybe you think he soaked it for weeks this year before delivery. DO I need to show you a graph of the rate of water loss from an oak log next to the fire? I can do it with a scale, and you can too. Beech is quicker, and birch even quicker, and splitting sure does help. PS. the first 3 weeks of burning this fall was with wood that was in the box in the house since last spring. I suppose you think your water meter would tell me why that wood too burned like crap in the Dauntless.

So 3 and 4 nights ago when a low pressure system was around I couldn't keep the thing lit, even in updraft. Tonight, it is cooking me out of the house in down draft, with a cold, cold high pressure system over head. I suppose you think it's the wood that is causing this stark difference in performance.

 

[glensimpson]

I really don't see anyone here saying they are not problematic. Pretty much everyone is saying they are. But that doesn't mean that there aren't things that can be done to over come those problems like making sure your draft fuel and operation procedure is right.

people should not have to pay attention to their wood stove like they are watching children chalk draw on the sidewalk of a busy street....seriously....nor should they be sold products that require additions for adequate performance..... when the sales guy tells you that you don't need the catalyst yet to run it in downdraft with low oxygen, it really doesn't work well, well?.... and this mean, yeah, it really doesn't work well in certain weather conditions and temperatures, especially when it's only moderately cold out with a low pressure system around...yeah, yeah, it's those times you'll really groan about your Dauntless, yet it's 34 degrees out and snowing.

 

[glensimpson]

I will never be convinced that the VC Dauntless is NOT a problematic wood stove. This appliance still frustrates its owners despite checking off all the boxes of proper wood moisture content, draft, start-up and reloading procedures found in the owners manual. If it were as some suggest, that this stove is a stove you must learn to master, as it is of a different design all together, then VC would provide after sale extensive guidance to its customers through their dealers. Dauntless customers are seeking but not receiving help from their dealers so they come to these forums out of desperation. Second and third season used Dauntless stoves for sale are becoming plentiful, not a good sign of satisfied customers.

thank you

 

[glensimpson]

The guy who sold you the stove, did he come out and do an inspection or have a certified chimney expert determine what was required to safely and properly install this stove? It really sounds like you have a drafting issue. You have not mention how tall the chimney is from the stove pipe if you drew an imaginary line from the top of the stove to the top of the chimney. That's rather important.
And it sounds like your stove pipe just dumps off inside a larger chimney, which isn't permitted in my area but maybe it is yours. However that will impact draft as well for you.

And as mentioned by others and myself, get a moisture meter, please. Wood split by a guy you know is meaningless, even if he goes to church twice on Sunday and volunteers at the local homeless shelter on Saturday. The wood split sitting in a pile in the open in the NE states will never season enough for today's stoves. It really starts to season once it is stacked, covered on top and exposed to the sun and the wind.

Im personally more worried about your chimney setup than your wood and would be more than curious to see what the inside of your flue looks like at this point. It is probably in need of cleaning too.

dude, can you read?... Please, go look at my plugged chimney/flu..............I have repeatedly written.... the chimney and flu are brand new.... the first smoke that clay ever saw was from a smoldering Dauntless fire burning wood that had been cured for one year and then another 6 month inside the house in a box from last spring...... the 1st 3 weeks of burning/smoldering was with that inside wood..... your wrong too, if my wood burns in my Yotel well it is in fact a good judge of whether it should burn well in my Dauntless. Silly you. WHat state is your bright club in?

 

[glensimpson]

Seriously.. I wouldn't take back the smart people are trying to help you.. because they are.. your trying to add credibility to yourself with the 4 Decades statement.. just do yourself a favor.. buy a moisture meter.. its like 20bucks on amazon.. Youll actually see how wet your wood actually is.. and again.. sitting the wood by the stove produces very little in the way of results.. If you listen to the others.. you can't compare the one stove to the other because.. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.. and with all of you 4 Decades worth of experience you might know that..

ps. I have yet to see a yotel run well on poorly seasoned wood, having observed numerous models in family and friend's homes. Yeah, the yotel I own, that's included too. It would never run well on a questionable log that I could throw in my vintage, inefficient VC upstairs. The one I got rid of last spring, before my the tragic, misguided Dauntless choice. SO imagine, after 40+ years of wood burning I now have a way a judging how well wood is cured by using my Yotel downstairs. Bare with the deep stuff here for a minute.

 

[glensimpson]

Glen I would seriously consider posting some pictures as well if you get a chance.
To be honest when you mentioned how you were setup, the first thing that struck me was the fact that this all goes into a clay square chimney flu. That may be acceptable in your area, and I dont know how big that is inside that chimney, but that may also be contributing to poor draft due to the size or maybe the cooling of gases. I would seriously consider getting a second opinion by a certified chimney expert. Certified being the key here. (and there are some on here too, who have given you some thoughts as well)

Also for every 45 I believe you must add some much height to the chimney cap, in order to achieve proper draft. For a 90 degree it's 5', but Im not sure what two 45's would result in. If once it goes into the chimney, if it just dumps off at that point into a large chimney, then that's probably adding more to the problem too. Which may be why you are getting smoke just piling up in that exit point and just pushing back into the house.

you mentioned the Jotul as if it has the same setup. They dont share the same chimney do they?
I think you need to drop the consideration of the Jotul. It's 8' below and has a much better draft. So you are comparing apples to oranges there. And it's a different stove all together.

Flu height top is about 16 feet from stove top for the upstairs stove and 25 for the downstairs stove.... the Jotul (oops I always spell it phonetically yotel) and dauntless share they same chimney structure but each have their own flu....2 flus in a big rectangular block chimney.

there would be a 45 right above the 6 in pipe hole on the stove, then another one where that 8 inch thimble enters the rectangular flu. If there are so many chimney variables related to how these stoves run, ummmm, why are chimney building guys not on board? The guy who put the new chimney in this summer works on million dollar homes around here.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

ps. I have yet to see a yotel run well on poorly seasoned wood, having observed numerous models in family and friend's homes. Yeah, the yotel I own, that's included too. It would never run well on a questionable log that I could throw in my vintage, inefficient VC upstairs. The one I got rid of last spring, before my the tragic, misguided Dauntless choice. SO imagine, after 40+ years of wood burning I now have a way a judging how well wood is cured by using my Yotel downstairs. Bare with the deep stuff here for a minute.

So I completely understand how your struggling with this, its a really hard concept to get. Your wood is a variable in the equation of your stove not running well. I hope saying it this way may resonates with you. Ill explain it even a little bit deeper for you.. Untill its verified with a meter you actually can rule it out. . Sure you can do it your way and wish the wood dry, but that doesn't mean it actually is. Is is really so hard the get a meter off Amazon.. no..

If your wood was so good from the beginning you wouldn't have to dry it at all... you would just be able to put it in the stove.. I have a downdraft stove also.. I dont need to dry my wood anymore then what it is.. and im not having any buildup like from your wet wood either

You really keep putting your foot in your mouth.. if your seller is actually selling 1k cords per year.. its definitely not seasoned.. but you cant understand that because you dont test it.. just because someone like your chimney guy works on so called million dollar homes is only you trying to build credibility with this persons work.. but people do make mistakes.. your comparison of a non downdraft stove with 24ft of chimney to a downdraft stove with only 16ft of chimney and going form 6 to 8 ( with an loss of volume ect) really isnt a good comparison at all.. your really struggling with that concept.

I really cant believe that with you so called 40 years of experience that your actually believe that a downdraft stove with 10 ft less pipe is going to perform as well as a stove that breaths easier.. with 10 ADDITIONAL FT on top of it. Maybe explaining it that way helps you with the concept.. its not a fair comparison.. at all

So what actually is the purpose of your thread.. doesn't really seam like you actually want anyone's help in trying to fix your issues

 

[bholler]

Flu height top is about 16 feet from stove top for the upstairs stove and 25 for the downstairs stove.... the Jotul (oops I always spell it phonetically yotel) and dauntless share they same chimney structure but each have their own flu....2 flus in a big rectangular block chimney.

there would be a 45 right above the 6 in pipe hole on the stove, then another one where that 8 inch thimble enters the rectangular flu. If there are so many chimney variables related to how these stoves run, ummmm, why are chimney building guys not on board? The guy who put the new chimney in this summer works on million dollar homes around here.

16' with your 45s and the 90 up the oversized chimney is not tall enough. You don't have enough draft.

What size is the flue?

 

[bholler]

people should not have to pay attention to their wood stove like they are watching children chalk draw on the sidewalk of a busy street....seriously....nor should they be sold products that require additions for adequate performance..... when the sales guy tells you that you don't need the catalyst yet to run it in downdraft with low oxygen, it really doesn't work well, well?.... and this mean, yeah, it really doesn't work well in certain weather conditions and temperatures, especially when it's only moderately cold out with a low pressure system around...yeah, yeah, it's those times you'll really groan about your Dauntless, yet it's 34 degrees out and snowing.

I agree they have issues. I also agree they shouldn't be sold without a cat. But we are trying to help you make it work as well as it can.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I agree they have issues. I also agree they shouldn't be sold without a cat. But we are trying to help you make it work as well as it can.

It is no easier or harder to run with or without the cat. I can over fire it and stall it just as easy

 

[GrumpyDad]

I know, I think you like to include yourself in the smart people category. If you saw the wood burning well downstairs and not up, would you think it's the wood? The guy I buy it from probably sells 1,000 cords a year. I have bought his hardwood for over 10 years. STack and cover it after delivery. Maybe you think he soaked it for weeks this year before delivery. DO I need to show you a graph of the rate of water loss from an oak log next to the fire? I can do it with a scale, and you can too. Beech is quicker, and birch even quicker, and splitting sure does help. PS. the first 3 weeks of burning this fall was with wood that was in the box in the house since last spring. I suppose you think your water meter would tell me why that wood too burned like crap in the Dauntless.

So 3 and 4 nights ago when a low pressure system was around I couldn't keep the thing lit, even in updraft. Tonight, it is cooking me out of the house in down draft, with a cold, cold high pressure system over head. I suppose you think it's the wood that is causing this stark difference in performance.

I read through your responses and all I can think of is that I sense your frustration but man are you a prick. I really don't want to see you succeed now. Your condescending attitude may have served you well in your life, but obviously right now you are stuck and your pros aren't helping you much. Several people here (including real pros) handed you a paddle and all you've done is tossed it overboard. You are unwilling to look at draft, wood moisture, or anything else as a root cause other than blaming the stove. The stove is challenging, and had I know I would have picked something else, but either take on the challenge and learn to use it within the confines of its capabilities or move on from it. If you have a draft issue or wood issue, you'll have the same problem with another stove most likely. So good luck and good health to you.