yeah, and I don't ever expect the blackened glass to burn off cause that requires heat when in downdraft that this stove is incapable of, the ash pan could be a little bigger, and knobs and levers could be a little more heavy duty, more like old school stuff., but whatever, it's the poor heat production and smoke leak that are the real issues.
Another Vermont Castings Dauntless Problematic Stove
- Thread starter j.boyles
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
maybe in NJ you need a different sort of heat source than folks up north.... who need a fire that actually puts out heat.
The best I can tell you is to just take your time, and work with the stove.
Read the manual again, trust the start up sequence for the most part.
Make sure your wood is <20% moisture content. I know you said yours was dry wood, but my neighbors definition of dry wood is wood that was split last week that isn't wet from the rain. That wood would NEVER burn in my stove, ever. Well, it might but Id be paying for it. Bring a few larger pieces in from the cold for 24 hours, split in half then measure the MC of the wood just to be sure.
It sounds like you may have a draft issue honestly based on what you are describing. While it could be the stove, what happens when you have the damper open and the air control wide open?
These are little stoves. While many will say they heat their entire home, my cabin is too leaky and spread out rather than air tight and built vertical. BUT, it will heat me out of a 670 sq ft room with cathedral ceilings, keep the adjacent two rooms at a tolerable (with blankets) temperatures. Once it gets going and stays going. I expected a bit more, but it is what it is. I loaded 4 medium/large pieces of oak Saturday morning ish (10:30am?) and had that room at 76, the adjacent room at 70, and it remained like that until we ate dinner. That's pretty damn good when it was 16 degrees outside.
Yes, it is still a sometimes challenging stove to operate but over time you will get adjusted to its quirks. I still cannot have anyone else operate the stove which in the end may be the demise of the stove at the end of the year, but for me as long as I dont go far after a reload for a couple of hours, I can then walk away from it at a certain setting for hours. Would I trust it to leave it alone for 8 hours, yes only if I had it burning low. But you would need to learn the stove and how it reacts to how you load it as well as how big of pieces you are using.
I also find that using larger splits makes it more predictable. You can throw a medium or two in there as well, it wont hurt but for example if you load it with nothing but smaller/medium pieces and walk away after 30 minutes thinking that will be the steady state burn, you will quickly smell the smell of an overheated stove and maybe a burning plastic smell from the overheated stove pipe. You must learn how the stove will react to different wood. And it will overheat quickly. At least mine does.
I have a 15' from stove top chimney to cap. Live in a valley of two tight mountains near three bodies of water (one river, one stream, one pond). I have sub optimal conditions I believe for burning with this stove, and am making it work ok. If I can you can.
Im not saying the stove is good, great, or even acceptable in comparison to other products, Im saying you can make it acceptable and at times you might even like it (then the next day it will do something to make you hate it again though)
Going from 6 to 8 is definitely hurting you. That will definitely reduce the draft and is actually a code violation. So I would honestly have the setup looked over by someone else
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
The best I can tell you is to just take your time, and work with the stove.
Read the manual again, trust the start up sequence for the most part.
Make sure your wood is <20% moisture content. I know you said yours was dry wood, but my neighbors definition of dry wood is wood that was split last week that isn't wet from the rain. That wood would NEVER burn in my stove, ever. Well, it might but Id be paying for it. Bring a few larger pieces in from the cold for 24 hours, split in half then measure the MC of the wood just to be sure.
It sounds like you may have a draft issue honestly based on what you are describing. While it could be the stove, what happens when you have the damper open and the air control wide open?
These are little stoves. While many will say they heat their entire home, my cabin is too leaky and spread out rather than air tight and built vertical. BUT, it will heat me out of a 670 sq ft room with cathedral ceilings, keep the adjacent two rooms at a tolerable (with blankets) temperatures. Once it gets going and stays going. I expected a bit more, but it is what it is. I loaded 4 medium/large pieces of oak Saturday morning ish (10:30am?) and had that room at 76, the adjacent room at 70, and it remained like that until we ate dinner. That's pretty damn good when it was 16 degrees outside.
Yes, it is still a sometimes challenging stove to operate but over time you will get adjusted to its quirks. I still cannot have anyone else operate the stove which in the end may be the demise of the stove at the end of the year, but for me as long as I dont go far after a reload for a couple of hours, I can then walk away from it at a certain setting for hours. Would I trust it to leave it alone for 8 hours, yes only if I had it burning low. But you would need to learn the stove and how it reacts to how you load it as well as how big of pieces you are using.
I also find that using larger splits makes it more predictable. You can throw a medium or two in there as well, it wont hurt but for example if you load it with nothing but smaller/medium pieces and walk away after 30 minutes thinking that will be the steady state burn, you will quickly smell the smell of an overheated stove and maybe a burning plastic smell from the overheated stove pipe. You must learn how the stove will react to different wood. And it will overheat quickly. At least mine does.
I have a 15' from stove top chimney to cap. Live in a valley of two tight mountains near three bodies of water (one river, one stream, one pond). I have sub optimal conditions I believe for burning with this stove, and am making it work ok. If I can you can.
Im not saying the stove is good, great, or even acceptable in comparison to other products, Im saying you can make it acceptable and at times you might even like it (then the next day it will do something to make you hate it again though)
This is pretty well written... good job
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
When you get a chance, take a look at this device. Or search general tools moisture meter in amazon:
Amazon product ASIN B00275F5O2
It's $30 and you'll find out right away what's going on with your wood. It's nice trust me! The newer EPA stoves, you really have to watch what you put in them. I believe you that your wood is dry, but you will need to do this to prove to the company that sold you the stove or the installer that the problem is NOT the wood, with measurable proof they can see for themselves, then and only then will they take your issue seriously.
From there, then you would need to look at draft, and maybe even a defective stove. My air control stuck open once, I wiggled it back and forth until the little flapper closed again. Maybe check behind at the bottom of your stove to ensure when you open the air control that you are seeing it open. Assuming you dont have an outdoor air kit attached.
Also consider cracking a window near the stove and see if that improves, as you may need an outdoor air kit attached.
Good luck!
my local chief didn;t say anything about it....ummm.... it's a brand new chimney and flu done by a recognized guy around here. He put an 8 in the wall(block) and 6 inches beyond that is new standard flu. It;s a 6 off the stove, so hot air expanding should create draw back on the head of the stove,,,,, not sure where your physics is coming from.....what could I do anyway, the stove's a 6 and the hole in the wall 2 feet up and back is an 8..... the mason didn't give me a choice.
it's not affecting my yotel downstair...pretty much same set up going 6 to 8....same new chimney structure, each stove with their own new flu.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
To have the same volume of gases stream through a 6" pipe and then getting loose in an 8" pipe increases the cross section from 28 sq inch to 50 square inch.
For the same mass (of gas) to flow through a larger cross section, it'll slow down.
Moreover it expands, and expanding gases cool down.
So you have colder gas that then also loses more heat traveling up (because it takes longer to get there).
All this decreases draft.
The venturi effect needs laminar flow, and that is unlikely to be present here.
For the same mass (of gas) to flow through a larger cross section, it'll slow down.
Moreover it expands, and expanding gases cool down.
So you have colder gas that then also loses more heat traveling up (because it takes longer to get there).
All this decreases draft.
The venturi effect needs laminar flow, and that is unlikely to be present here.
the kind of stove management you have described is so, so unappealing, and kinda wrong... maybe not wrong what you are saying to do..... just down right wrong in principle.The best I can tell you is to just take your time, and work with the stove.
Read the manual again, trust the start up sequence for the most part.
Make sure your wood is <20% moisture content. I know you said yours was dry wood, but my neighbors definition of dry wood is wood that was split last week that isn't wet from the rain. That wood would NEVER burn in my stove, ever. Well, it might but Id be paying for it. Bring a few larger pieces in from the cold for 24 hours, split in half then measure the MC of the wood just to be sure.
It sounds like you may have a draft issue honestly based on what you are describing. While it could be the stove, what happens when you have the damper open and the air control wide open?
These are little stoves. While many will say they heat their entire home, my cabin is too leaky and spread out rather than air tight and built vertical. BUT, it will heat me out of a 670 sq ft room with cathedral ceilings, keep the adjacent two rooms at a tolerable (with blankets) temperatures. Once it gets going and stays going. I expected a bit more, but it is what it is. I loaded 4 medium/large pieces of oak Saturday morning ish (10:30am?) and had that room at 76, the adjacent room at 70, and it remained like that until we ate dinner. That's pretty damn good when it was 16 degrees outside.
Yes, it is still a sometimes challenging stove to operate but over time you will get adjusted to its quirks. I still cannot have anyone else operate the stove which in the end may be the demise of the stove at the end of the year, but for me as long as I dont go far after a reload for a couple of hours, I can then walk away from it at a certain setting for hours. Would I trust it to leave it alone for 8 hours, yes only if I had it burning low. But you would need to learn the stove and how it reacts to how you load it as well as how big of pieces you are using.
I also find that using larger splits makes it more predictable. You can throw a medium or two in there as well, it wont hurt but for example if you load it with nothing but smaller/medium pieces and walk away after 30 minutes thinking that will be the steady state burn, you will quickly smell the smell of an overheated stove and maybe a burning plastic smell from the overheated stove pipe. You must learn how the stove will react to different wood. And it will overheat quickly. At least mine does.
I have a 15' from stove top chimney to cap. Live in a valley of two tight mountains near three bodies of water (one river, one stream, one pond). I have sub optimal conditions I believe for burning with this stove, and am making it work ok. If I can you can.
Im not saying the stove is good, great, or even acceptable in comparison to other products, Im saying you can make it acceptable and at times you might even like it (then the next day it will do something to make you hate it again though)
I said kinda venturi....... what should be clear is that the expansion of gas moving from a small pipe to a larger pipe creates draw... the draw in this case going back to the head of the smaller pipe, in this case, the stove body. Yes, in a true venturi set up the angle of the vacuum's induction is most often perpendicular to the flow and only achievable in tight range on your device. It was the outcome of expansion I am moreso focusing on.
Diabel
Minister of Fire
The newer VC stoves (90s up) are like needy girlfriends. Need constant attention😳. I do not miss mine😉
ok, I just read your post.... there's semthing to figure out here..... why the hell would the mason put the 8 in then....and the 6 would enter the flu and experience the same physics you describe.
I am getting to old for a needy girfriend, and a junky stove....... where'd you do your trade in, man.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
I think (but that's not my expertise) that it's feasible to properly mount a thimble for a 6" pipe in an 8" hole... Any left over space can be simply be stuffed with rockwool. So indeed why he would do this is not clear to me.
Well my physics come from at least 5 different chimney physics courses and well over a decade working in the field diagnosing problems. When the gasses expand they both cool down and loose velocity. Those things hurt draft and the turbulence caused does as well.
And im sorry if your local firechief doesn't know the code but you can't increase by more than 1".
So your setup goes from 6" connector to 8" through the wall to a 6" stainless liner? Why?
And about 8' more chimney for downstairs right?
I'm not defending the vc. They certainly have issues but your setup makes no sense. What jotul is it btw?
Woodsplitter67
Minister of Fire
This could be a combination of subpar wood and a bad install.. Most of the initial post suggests draft.. but the wood hasn't been ruled out either..
@glensimpson do you have a moisture meter
@glensimpson do you have a moisture meter
no, it goes from the 6 on the back of the stove, up about 3 inches then a 45 degree 6 inch pipe another couple inched, then a 8 in flare pipe that's like 6 inches, the 8 inch end going into the wall where the mason put an 8 inch pipe thimble through the block chimney into the larger rectangular ceramic chimney flu. so the amount of pipe I am looking at is just a couple feet, up and over. So there is an air expansion going on at the end of this 90 degree angled pipe. You'd think the guy who runs the place and sold me the pipe would have seen the problem before, if that as a source of this problem. I don;t think running a 6 inch pipe another couple inches out to the flu is going to make that much a difference. I have the same set up downstairs with my yotel, no problems, thankfully. I assume the mason put the 8 inch thimble through the new block chimney as a way of accommodating various pipe sizes.The guys that dropped it off could see very clearly what the set up was too. I don;t think it's that uncommon to have an 8 inch thimble going into the wall through your block/brick chimney.
the wood is from a local known source, cut and split last winter/spring..... the same wood runs fine in my yotel, downstairs. I am hyper drying the wood next to the stove prior to use and it still doesn't run well. That same hyper dry wood sparks right up downstairs to the point I really have to throttle back my yotel some. It aint the wood, a mix of oak, beech, maple, ash, birch.....yeah, an occasional beech and birch piece might seem a little punky, but they are rare, and any oak is hyper dried to the point of cracking.
and how would you know there is 8 feet more of chimney for the downstairs stove? If you have been on these boards you would have known these complaints, right?
