Im curious if anyone here has experience using quarter sawn flooring, specifically oak, for size (width) stability. Was it worth the extra money?
Anyone with experience using quarter sawn flooring?
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It is far more stable. I never used any for flooring but have used a fair amount for cabinetry
My application will be OSB,1/2Ply, vapor barrier (still not sold on the vapor barrier). This will sit ~4' above a crawlspace that eventually will be well encapsulated at the time of the flooring application. However humidity is humidity, and during the summer I can see a month of 80+% humidity. Im still installing planks in this cabin that Im working on, leaving nice sized gaps based on current humidity, but am terrified of what the flooring may do. I do plan to put in a crawlspace dehumidifier, after learning that mini splits which I also have plans for dont really remove all that much moisture. Thus my thoughts about using quarter sawn oak to avoid too much expansion/contraction.
sneefy
Burning Hunk
OSB is more consistent, flatter, has better shear strength, is more stable and doesn't delaminate like plywood. It's the better product in many situations. If it's kept dry, it's good. If it sees rare moisture, it's more stable than plywood. If it's exposed to moisture often, it swells.
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EbS-P
Minister of Fire
You could vapor barrier under the joists in the crawl space, maybe. I’d get the crawl space done before I bought any expensive flooring. I’m quite happy with the cheapest LVP I could get that i put in my basement. But it’s just that a basement. For the ease of install it’s really hard to beat you just need a really really flat subfloor. I’ve done 3/4” oak install in bedroom. You would have a hard time convincing me to do it again now that the lvp is everywhere.
Subfloor, crawl space encapsulation, then you can put whatever you want down as flooring.
Subfloor, crawl space encapsulation, then you can put whatever you want down as flooring.
sneefy
Burning Hunk
In the home we just built (radiant, slab-on-grade), I opted for LVP in all non-carpeted areas. It's great.
I've considered lvp. I've visited a few places that had rooms done in it, and it just isn't for me.
During the time of construction my brain wasn't thinking and as such osb was laid down first. It was just as COVID came out and there was some relaxing of the bunker in place policies. I was happy to even get materials at the time and pay a small increase compared to months later or even today. Now I could put down hardwood on osb depending on who you talk to , but I would just prefer to lay down a layer of 1/2 ply on top. Yes osb is great for certain applications and some people prefer working with it. I am not a fan. Anything that cannot hold a screw isn't considered wood to me.
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During the time of construction my brain wasn't thinking and as such osb was laid down first. It was just as COVID came out and there was some relaxing of the bunker in place policies. I was happy to even get materials at the time and pay a small increase compared to months later or even today. Now I could put down hardwood on osb depending on who you talk to , but I would just prefer to lay down a layer of 1/2 ply on top. Yes osb is great for certain applications and some people prefer working with it. I am not a fan. Anything that cannot hold a screw isn't considered wood to me.
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The longer you can leave the flooring in the building to acclimate the better it’ll be. Can you leave it sitting in the structure over the winter?
Yes, I need to get it ordered though and am considering the cost of paying upwards of 14 sq ft vs 5 or 6. 5400 difference. Yikes. I'm seriously considering strong dehumidifiers in the crawlspace instead. The idea of it running all the time has me nervous.
USS Constitution was nicknamed "Old Ironside". She's made of Oak. Still sea worthy 200 years later. If this house is your forever home, get the flooring you want, you'll love her all the more. If you plan on selling in a few years, go for the budget. My 2 cents.
Interesting yes we do plan on being there awhile and passing it down to family. It's near a resort and in a great location however I could see a day when the resort wishes to expand and our area would be prime real estate for more ski slopes and accomodations so, who knows if we get the boot one day from local government.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
14 a sq ft!! Wow. Is that finished I hope??? Nobody down here has quarter dawn oak flooring. Mine is over a vented crawl space that the insulation is falling out of. and I don’t have any an issues. If you are having moisture issues you have to address those first quarter or rift. No I don’t see how it’s worth it unless you have a really big room. 30’ or more.
My floor is mix of ash and oak. $1 a finished board foot. The reason why it was so cheap is every piece was exactly 1 foot long. I did my entire living room floor with a herring bone pattern around the edges with walnut insets in the corners and compass pattern in the center. Everyone who saw it when new all had the same comment, my furniture covers up too much of it. The place I bought it from was owned by Ethan Allen Furniture, the took their scraps and ran it through a four sided planer. The wood sat in the living room for a year before I installed it. It tends to swell tight in the summer and gets looser in the winter. There is generous gap around the edges. I also have a Brazilian cherry floor in my second floor bedroom. It has got about 1/16" cherry on top of engineered laminated wood. It moves seasonally and its starting to pop the veneer. Its all nailed down with flooring nails and I really am not looking forward to ripping it out but unless I come up with a fix, its proably going to happen unless I cover it over with something else. I will stick with real wood. I really do not think flat sawn versus quarter sawn is going to make a difference if you have moisture issue.
Of course you could do it old school with true 1x on a 45 degree angle for the underlayment . It’s very rigid and no delaminating!
I'm curious what does your humidity in house range to and from through the seasons? We drop from really low in the winter to really high and swamp like in the summer. Pillows wet type damp. I run a small dehumidifier in bedroom but it makes it so much warmer and I also run a window air unit but it doesn't help much aside from cooling down the room somewhat.
Super dry in the winter, summers in NH are not as hot as Maryland but can get humid outside. Its pretty much standard that along the east coast, the wet bulb is probably pretty close to dry bulb in summer. If I leave windows open at night during summer, the house gets damp so when it gets hot I run a minisplit which does keep humidity down. I do have dry basement under my floor. I wonder in your situation if you may need a vapor barrier under the flooring to keep basement humidity from getting int to the main living space?
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I don’t know if any products that contain natural materials that wont have issues going from sustained 10-20% rh to 80-85%.
Air seal, air seal, air seal, Insulate, dehumidify. Then spend whatever you want in floors. Yes the dehumidifier will make the rooms hotter but 65-75% of the heat was going to be absorbed by the ac refrigerant and that means that the air won’t be losing that amount of heat. Or in other words it’s energy that was going to be “lost” in the ac system that results in decreased ac performance/efficiency.
We have about 3000 sq ft of quarter saw oak floors here on the Maine coast where humidity varies dramatically from summer to winter. To add insult to injury, we also have in floor radiant heating and 75% of the flooring is installed above crawlspace and we heat at least 2/3 of the season with a wood stove (exclusively). The reason we chose the quarter sawn (6" widths and long lengths up to 16') is: 1) We love the look of the grain 2) It is very dimensionally stable which was a "must have" in this application.
We have been very happy with the result (now we're 3 years down the road from the build). Zero cupping, warping or buckling and no seams have opened up anywhere. It has exceeded our expectations. This wood was milled locally, is very high grade (clear, no knots) and was allowed to season in the living space for about 2 weeks.
It was installed over Advantech subfloor. This is the fifth or 6th build we've done with it and there simply is no better sub flooring available. Negative comments about OSB simply do not apply to Advantech. All high-end builders here have been using it for many years , along with ZIP wall and roof sheathing. Perhaps better to call it "engineered wood products" to distinguish it from the old school osb that got such a poor reputation.
P.S. In the summer we occasionally use our mini splits for cooling, but probably no more than 10 or so days as the coast here is wonderfully cool. We just keep the windows open.
We have been very happy with the result (now we're 3 years down the road from the build). Zero cupping, warping or buckling and no seams have opened up anywhere. It has exceeded our expectations. This wood was milled locally, is very high grade (clear, no knots) and was allowed to season in the living space for about 2 weeks.
It was installed over Advantech subfloor. This is the fifth or 6th build we've done with it and there simply is no better sub flooring available. Negative comments about OSB simply do not apply to Advantech. All high-end builders here have been using it for many years , along with ZIP wall and roof sheathing. Perhaps better to call it "engineered wood products" to distinguish it from the old school osb that got such a poor reputation.
P.S. In the summer we occasionally use our mini splits for cooling, but probably no more than 10 or so days as the coast here is wonderfully cool. We just keep the windows open.
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See this is why I'm considering quarter sawn. But to the other points above, I do need to work on my vapor barrier. What's there is so minimal and doesn't go up along the walls just the floor. I had planned to insulate the walls too but at this point I'm not quite sure why , getting the place warm isn't a problem nor is cooling when needed which is rare, it is the humidity.
We finished a job a year ago where we encapsulated a dirt/ledge crawlspace (very wet) of about 1000 sq ft. Be sure to use quality products (thick plastic made for this application and, importantly, high quality tapes. We used SIGA tapes which are crazy $$, but Zip tape would do just fine as it uses high quality adhesive and is quite durable. Make sure all penetrations are sealed.
You will still need to dehumidify or condition the space, but the energy cost of doing so will drop dramatically. You can also get (fairly pricy - around $1,000-$1,500 or more) dehumidifiers that are much more energy efficient if you can absorb the up front cost, but they are by no means necessary and will have a long payback period if you do a good job with your encapsulation.
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Thanks for the tip.
I found quarter sawn unfinished wood fairly inexpensive now in comparison to what Id pay at the box stores, so..more money in the budget for encapsulation and dehumidification
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