Battery Chain Saws

[salecker]

The best modification to any saw is getting the chain sharp

 

[armanidog]

The best modification to any saw is getting the chain sharp

Since you are in northern Canada, do batteries even make sense with the cold weather in winter?

 

[DeadTreeBurner]

I was very surprised how quick the Husqvarna went through the log. I guess a 16" Stihl battery saw would do the same.

That reminds me, I have a corded Poulan in the garage. I should sharpen the chain and try it. I see some tools come without batteries, need to read the fine print. But as stated, might as well invest in a brand where the batteries are interchangeable between tools.

Thinking about the tool suite ecosystem is the way to go if battery tools will work for you. I decided on greenworks a few years ago, starting with their 60v weed trimmer. Soon after I bought the blower. Then a hedge trimmer, 16" chainsaw, and just the other day the pole saw. I bought them all during this time of year when they were discounted, the chainsaw heavily. The hedge trimmer and pole saw w/out a battery, but I scored an extra 2.5 amp battery last year by buying a seriously discounted blower and parting out the battery and selling the blower on ebay. The battery ended up costing me nothing, and those things are expensive.
I've been pretty pleased w/ the greenworks tools. I track battery usage and rotate them out so that they are used evenly and I'll maximize lifespan over the entire set.

 

[DeadTreeBurner]

The best modification to any saw is getting the chain sharp

Yes, ESPECIALLY for a battery saw!

 

[SpaceBus]

I just saw Stihl has an electric kombisystem motor now, so I can't see any point going with anyone else for electric saws or outdoor tools.

 

[EbS-P]

1/4 “ pitch just isn’t something I’d ever want. I have the time to wait for .325 or 3/8 LP. Durability and longevity over speed.

 

[SpaceBus]

1/4 “ pitch just isn’t something I’d ever want. I have the time to wait for .325 or 3/8 LP. Durability and longevity over speed.

I'm a big fan of the 1/4" micro picco on my Stihl pole saw and top handle. I really did not like it that much until I got the Super Jolly grinder, now it's a breeze to clean it up. The cutters can somehow go for tanks and tanks before sharpening, so long as you don't hit a rock or nails.

 

[DodgyNomad]

I think that Stihl Kombi system makes sense if you have smaller property, issues with room, etc.., but they are always a compromise vs. a standalone dedicated piece of equipment. Lots of good choices out there for systems these days. I just can't get away with battery powered outdoor equipment on my acreage with the kind of work I do.

 

[SpaceBus]

I think that Stihl Kombi system makes sense if you have smaller property, issues with room, etc.., but they are always a compromise vs. a standalone dedicated piece of equipment. Lots of good choices out there for systems these days. I just can't get away with battery powered outdoor equipment on my acreage with the kind of work I do.

I don't know, I have a gas KS and it does as good a job on hedge trimming, string trimming, pole sawing, and leaf blowing. I've used stand alone versions of each and my KS is just as good, but only one gas engine to maintain. The only exception would be a backpack leaf blower being better than the KS blower.

 

[salecker]

Since you are in northern Canada, do batteries even make sense with the cold weather in winter?

An old friend of mine uses on on his snowmobile as a trail saw,he can charge it on his sled as well.He likes it,but he has issues with his hands.
Myself i don't see getting one anytime soon,i bought my second Stihl MS150 as my tiny saw.Have a very nice one that i gave to my girlfriend to use as her small saw,she has a mint Husky 55.The ugly one will be my 150 to not care about the aperance of it so it can rattle around in my bush truck

 

[NorMi]

Same here, I only manage 40 acres so gas/commercial logging power tools are not needed. I charge the batteries off my truck/tractor/electric golf cart. I have an inverter/aux lifepo that I use as a portapack that charges off the alternator for the truck/tractor and gets plugged in to the barn when I don't need it. The electric golf cart i just tap the lithium batteries in it directly for a permanently installed inverter. Technically I can work/saw all day/indefinitely but i rarely spend more than a few hours at a time in the woods. I usually try to use the golf cart for hauling duties though since I put a solar panel on the roof I basically never have to plug it in except in winter.

 

[SpaceBus]

Same here, I only manage 40 acres so gas/commercial logging power tools are not needed. I charge the batteries off my truck/tractor/electric golf cart. I have an inverter/aux lifepo that I use as a portapack that charges off the alternator for the truck/tractor and gets plugged in to the barn when I don't need it. The electric golf cart i just tap the lithium batteries in it directly for a permanently installed inverter. Technically I can work/saw all day/indefinitely but i rarely spend more than a few hours at a time in the woods. I usually try to use the golf cart for hauling duties though since I put a solar panel on the roof I basically never have to plug it in except in winter.

Those LiFePO batteries are getting really affordable. I'm thinking about picking one up soon for running my chainsaw grinder and some other things. With a decent inverter you have a portable power station far cheaper than Dewalt or anyone else is offering. Then you can charge with pretty much any battery trickle charger/tender, any vehicle, etc. There are also kits on Ebay with small solar panels and charge controllers for solar charging batteries. I think about rigging something up on my chicken coop to run a solar door.

 

[NorMi]

That's what I like about EV's/solar/lithium battery stuff (and wood) in general is you are more energy independent than any other tech. Since lithium became the cheapest deep cycles you could buy since 2013 or so, it's all I've been doing is converting stuff to run off grid solar and batteries. So cheap now it's unreal. I can't believe they can even sell lead acid batteries anymore! The EVE/Lishen CATL relabeled prismatic cells from china are real popular now, but they take an age to ship. I've been buying these from battery hookup for projects where I don't want to wait for that. Sorry for the digression, but it does pair well with cordless electric tools I think.

 

[DodgyNomad]

That's what I like about EV's/solar/lithium battery stuff (and wood) in general is you are more energy independent than any other tech. Since lithium became the cheapest deep cycles you could buy since 2013 or so, it's all I've been doing is converting stuff to run off grid solar and batteries. So cheap now it's unreal. I can't believe they can even sell lead acid batteries anymore! The EVE/Lishen CATL relabeled prismatic cells from china are real popular now, but they take an age to ship. I've been buying these from battery hookup for projects where I don't want to wait for that. Sorry for the digression, but it does pair well with cordless electric tools I think.

Can you share more regarding lithium being the cheapest deep cycle batts? I'd be specifically interested in 12v lithium batteries for my trolling motors, fishing boat and motorhome, etc.. Would very much appreciate some links, thank you!

 

[armanidog]

Can you share more regarding lithium being the cheapest deep cycle batts? I'd be specifically interested in 12v lithium batteries for my trolling motors, fishing boat and motorhome, etc.. Would very much appreciate some links, thank you!

I think you will have sticker shock:
Amazon

 

[NorMi]

Can you share more regarding lithium being the cheapest deep cycle batts? I'd be specifically interested in 12v lithium batteries for my trolling motors, fishing boat and motorhome, etc.. Would very much appreciate some links, thank you!

There's lots of data out there, but the basics of energy storage costs revolve around cycle life and round trip efficiency. Lead acid can usually hit 70% +/- round trip for flooded and north of 80% +/- for more expensive AGMs. So you factor in your system costs for needing to oversize based on throwing away 20-30% of your energy. Lifepo you still lose energy, but they are normally 95-98% round trip efficient, especially if you don't abuse them by charging to 100% full all the time. So you are only throwing away 2-5% of your solar (or whatever) energy.

To hit reasonable cycle life specs on lead acid, you need to limit depth of discharge to a maximum of 50%, and even then the cycle life is usually overstated. So you need at least 2x the rated battery bank capacity to match the same lithium bank performance on daily energy available. An example is you need really 4x Trojan T-105RE's to match one of those 100AH Battleborn's linked. Then, you still lose money on the round trip efficiency losses continuously, and even under ideal no more than 50% discharge *ever* on the Trojan bank, you are supposed to get 1500 cycles +/-... Usually no one achieves that, and the easier you are on your lead acid bank, the more you spent to oversize it, the worse the economics, etc.

Battleborns (or any other lifepo) will do several thousand more cycles than that peak price/performance lead acid will do, cycling 0-100% doesn't really phase them, just keeping them at full charge or under 20-30% for long periods of time, or high temperatures will all increase degradation. So even if you buy overpriced Battleborns, you spend 870$ ($800 factory direct) vs. about $550-600 for the trojans that will last half as long and waste about 6x the power in losses over the cycles they do last. Or, you could buy cells yourself and make a battery from lithium that is just about 3x cheaper than the lead acid up front and take the rest of the long term savings to the bank on top of that. Lead acid is always a waste of money even against shiny overpriced lithiums, and has been for quite awhile now.

edit:

An example is you need really 4x Trojan T-105RE's to match one of those 100AH Battleborn's linked.

I should explain why I said this, because somone is going to be scratching their head as to why 450AH (225AH x 2) of lead is needed to be "2X" bigger than 100AH of lithium. The problem is T-105's aren't really 225AH batteries. The only way you can size them at the nameplate is if you never draw over ~11 amps load per pair at any time, but most off grid installs don't draw from the batteries like that. They use slugs of power when the refer cycles, the microwave gets used, the well pump kicks on. Usually you are using power closer to the 2-5 hour rate, which is 140-180AH when *brand new.* At the mid lifespan, they are basically a 100AH battery. You can use the 10 or 20 hour rating if you are making a bigger, multi day bank for cloudy weather though.

 

[DodgyNomad]

I think you will have sticker shock:
Amazon

That's even a bit more than I had expected. Thank you.

 

[DodgyNomad]

There's lots of data out there, but the basics of energy storage costs revolve around cycle life and round trip efficiency. Lead acid can usually hit 70% +/- round trip for flooded and north of 80% +/- for more expensive AGMs. So you factor in your system costs for needing to oversize based on throwing away 20-30% of your energy. Lifepo you still lose energy, but they are normally 95-98% round trip efficient, especially if you don't abuse them by charging to 100% full all the time. So you are only throwing away 2-5% of your solar (or whatever) energy.

To hit reasonable cycle life specs on lead acid, you need to limit depth of discharge to a maximum of 50%, and even then the cycle life is usually overstated. So you need at least 2x the rated battery bank capacity to match the same lithium bank performance on daily energy available. An example is you need really 4x Trojan T-105RE's to match one of those 100AH Battleborn's linked. Then, you still lose money on the round trip efficiency losses continuously, and even under ideal no more than 50% discharge *ever* on the Trojan bank, you are supposed to get 1500 cycles +/-... Usually no one achieves that, and the easier you are on your lead acid bank, the more you spent to oversize it, the worse the economics, etc.

Battleborns (or any other lifepo) will do several thousand more cycles than that peak price/performance lead acid will do, cycling 0-100% doesn't really phase them, just keeping them at full charge or under 20-30% for long periods of time, or high temperatures will all increase degradation. So even if you buy overpriced Battleborns, you spend 870$ ($800 factory direct) vs. about $550-600 for the trojans that will last half as long and waste about 6x the power in losses over the cycles they do last. Or, you could buy cells yourself and make a battery from lithium that is just about 3x cheaper than the lead acid up front and take the rest of the long term savings to the bank on top of that. Lead acid is always a waste of money even against shiny overpriced lithiums, and has been for quite awhile now.

edit:

I should explain why I said this, because somone is going to be scratching their head as to why 450AH (225AH x 2) of lead is needed to be "2X" bigger than 100AH of lithium. The problem is T-105's aren't really 225AH batteries. The only way you can size them at the nameplate is if you never draw over ~11 amps load per pair at any time, but most off grid installs don't draw from the batteries like that. They use slugs of power when the refer cycles, the microwave gets used, the well pump kicks on. Usually you are using power closer to the 2-5 hour rate, which is 140-180AH when *brand new.* At the mid lifespan, they are basically a 100AH battery. You can use the 10 or 20 hour rating if you are making a bigger, multi day bank for cloudy weather though.

Some good info to sort through and contemplate. Depends a lot on your needs, and applications. And your available funds. I have great luck with utilizing East Penn batts through a good contact, and for my equipment needs, they work great and are usually completely functional and stay strong enough for my needs for about 7 years, sometimes even a bit more. But, I do keep them charged, rotate them from app to app, bring them inside over the winter, and use a strict charging and desulfating program for them. But for $100 for the BIG ones, I can't complain a single bit. I have some that are over 10 years old, and still work as starting batteries for my heavy equipment.

 

[SpaceBus]

Can you share more regarding lithium being the cheapest deep cycle batts? I'd be specifically interested in 12v lithium batteries for my trolling motors, fishing boat and motorhome, etc.. Would very much appreciate some links, thank you!

Check out LiFEPO4 batteries, they aren't as expensive, or energy dense, as the Cobalt Lithium batteries, but the difference is pretty small.

 

[SpaceBus]

That's even a bit more than I had expected. Thank you.

You can DIY that for less than half the price.

 

[DodgyNomad]

You can DIY that for less than half the price.

That's good to hear. I'm currently in good shape and set on deep cycles, but that can change in a hurry, and would be very interested in having the links and instructions so I could start collecting parts and supplies to ultimately build, replace and upgrade the ones I have when they start showing their age in a few years. I'm a DIY guy, and love gathering stuff and building things like this on the cheap. If you can PM me or let me know a few simple and well loved combos, sites or videos, I'd like to start going to school on these. I often sell my boats and big equipment with newer and strong batts in them, so might need to build some of these for replacements sooner than I think. Thanks in advance.

 

[SpaceBus]

I suddenly can't find the link another forum member posted in a different thread discussing batteries. I'll try and search for the thread, I just can't remember which one! Apparently I did not bookmark the battery website like I thought I did.

Edit: The link was hiding in plain sight in an earlier post in this very thread...

https://batteryhookup.com/products/new-12v-100ah-lifepo4-kit-w-bms-low-temp

There are a few more parts you need to convert that into something that can deliver power, but you will be all in for less than half of the Battleborn if you are handy with tools.

 

[DodgyNomad]

I suddenly can't find the link another forum member posted in a different thread discussing batteries. I'll try and search for the thread, I just can't remember which one! Apparently I did not bookmark the battery website like I thought I did.

Edit: The link was hiding in plain sight in an earlier post in this very thread...

https://batteryhookup.com/products/new-12v-100ah-lifepo4-kit-w-bms-low-temp

There are a few more parts you need to convert that into something that can deliver power, but you will be all in for less than half of the Battleborn if you are handy with tools.

Thank you. Saw it and already saved and started a new file. Rarely do I find the very first link ends up being the greatest or most complete, but I'll look through it in more detail when I hopefully get some free time after the new year.

If there's any other forums or sites you'd recommend or products that are must have's please feel free to post them up or PM me. Thanks Again!