Beginner Woodstove Suggestions

[stoveliker]

I would not get a 20 firebox as the low end of the output is quite similar so you don't gain much there, but the firebox is smaller and thus you will have 1/3 shorter burn times.

 

[begreen]

That was not the info I was getting on the Woodstock stoves, but they don't seem to have the same range of BTU output as the BKs.

They do. The low-end output is why I suggested the Fireview. Specs are on their website:

• Absolute Steel - BTU Output: 10,000-48,000/hr (per EPA tests)

• Fireview - BTU Output: 7,606-46,460/hr (per EPA tests)

 

[EbS-P]

I vote Drolet and a heatpump mini split. Heatpump means you don’t need to be concerned about the low end output. Drolet 1800 is probably over sized but I have one (insert) in my 1000 sq ft basement and the the 10-20 loads the first year I never found it too hot. We buried it only on the coldest days. With 2,4 cu ft it’s a 6-8 hour realistic time between loads. The depreciation of a stove after a year or two would really have me thinking about getting what I wanted the first time around.

What are your cold winter temps at your location? How about hot summer temps?

 

[rijim]

I would not get a 20 firebox as the low end of the output is quite similar so you don't gain much there, but the firebox is smaller and thus you will have 1/3 shorter burn times.

Problem is the size of the existing area he has. All things being equal, I agree, I went with the 30.2 for that reason but I had options, my install area allowed for the larger stove.

 

[Harpspiel]

Without getting into construction/demolition, I can install a Drolet Escape 1200 or that line, possibly a 1500, a BK 20.2, a 30.2 if I add ember protection in front of my current pad, or a Woodstock Survival. I’ll have to look at the dimensions of the Woodstock Fireview. For the BKs and maybe the Woodstocks though, I doubt I have the chimney height required at this elevation. I have to measure still.

My winter temps are an average low of 20F and high of 40F the coldest month of the year. I think getting into heat pumps and mini-splits is way more expense and complication than I need. It’s a small house, I already have a forced air heating system (which I want to avoid using, but can use in a pinch) and cooling system. The swamp cooler only needs to be running for about a month mid-summer, and I don’t need any further cooling. With a stove on the north end, a greenhouse on the south end, some strategically placed fans, and a propane central air system that kicks in if it goes below 55 or so, I think I will be all set.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I think that looking at stoves with good turn down—Blaze King and perhaps Woodstock—would really allow you to use the stove more often in your warmer environment, especially since you don’t know what your solar heat gain will be when you add the greenhouse. (My mother has a sun porch on the south side of her house in Virginia. It definitely adds a lot of heat at times to that end of the house. She uses an old Lange Woodstove all winter on the other side of the house.)

I live in South Central Texas, and we need a lot more air conditioning than you do, but we do get cold in the winters. Having wood heat has been nice down here. I looked really hard at installing a freestanding Blaze King (Sirocco 30) in our house, but it didn’t end up working for the place where we needed the stove. If it had been as simple as installing ember protection and replacing chimney pipe, that would have been great, especially at this time when all parts of the installation qualify for the tax credit.

The advantage to the Blaze King is that it has a thermostat that allows you to determine how much heat output you want, and my understanding is that this gives much more low-end heat output to the stove. I don’t know how that compares to the Woodstock Fireview that Begreen cites above. I haven’t used either a Blaze King or a Woodstock, so I’m talking here just from my (pretty hefty) reading on this forum. The downside to the thermostat on a BK is that at low burn rates, the stove basically smolders the wood (but the cat cleans up the emissions) so there isn’t a view of lots of flames. You would definitely want an adequate chimney installation and would need to figure out how your altitude would affect the minimum height requirement.

The 20.2 might be all that you would need size-wise. We decided against that smaller model because we wanted the larger firebox to make it easier to provide our own wood. The wood that grows on our property is gnarly and twisted, and we preferred to have extra room inside the stove rather than trying to have to play Jenga or Tetris and be frustrated by having odd-shaped wood. I don’t know what your wood situation is, but it’s something to consider.

I feel a bit odd pushing you to look at a stove that we didn’t actually buy, but from the research we would have bought it had we been going the freestanding route. We ended up needing an insert, and nothing by Blaze King fit our dimensions. I do think that a BK 30 box (Sirocco, Ashford, or Chinook) or perhaps a Woodstock could be a really good fit for you, so it would be worth it to read some threads and ask some questions of owners of those stoves. I recall that NM has Blaze King dealers. I don’t know if any are close enough for an easy visit for you, but it might be worth a phone call to a couple of dealers to find out what they have to say.

 

[BKVP]

Herr Harpspiel,

The information provided by Stoveliker on the inverse heat output and emissions profiles is spot on.
Reading test reports will demonstrate/confirm the information. When you reduce burn rate and decrease air intake, the flow rate through the combustor slows increasing residence time of emissions within the combustor. Counter intuitively, combustors can get much hotter in lower burn rates as a result of increased chemical reaction/conversion.

Secondary combustion stoves typically burn cleanest at their peak burn rate.

Regulators and industry, as well as consumer polling data, suggest 80% of wood burners operate their wood heaters on low and medium low 80% of the time.

This is where "weighted average emissions" comes into play. From all the multiple emissions test done when seeking certification, 80% of your weighted emissions is based upon the units low and medium low test results.

What is important to one person may not be as important to another. Set your priorities, such as:

Possible/achievable low burn duration
Efficiency
Emissions
Appearance
Ease of use
FBV
Etc.

Then once you have your list, look for the stove that most qualifies. That way, with good seasoned wood, you should be pleased.

100% of the 2020 EPA Certified wood stoves are good heaters with varying USP's (unique selling propositions).

As Stoveliker ALWAYS suggests, go cut, split and stack wood NOW. That way, regardless of which model you purchase, you'll get the most from that stove.

Auf Wiedersehen Herr Harpspiel,
BKVP

 

[Harpspiel]

Some measurements:
Floor to chimney opening: 92”
Chimney opening to top of chimney: 96”
Opening diameter: 8”
So that complicates things.

If I’m focused on heating the open living/kitchen area and the bedroom and laundry room next to that area, i.e. just the north end of the house (850 sq ft), I want something that can produce approximately 7k BTUs to give me 10 degrees of heating on a warm day, up to about 45k on an extremely cold day for 60 degrees of heating.

There are a few Woodstock models that meet the criteria, and the BK 30.2 comes close without being able to run quite as low. But with all of these, I believe I will need 18’ of chimney, not the less than 14’ that I have now. Are there fans or anything that can encourage draft with a shorter chimney?

There’s a local Blaze King supplier, so I’ll definitely be talking to them about my options.

 

[Harpspiel]

Herr Harpspiel,

The information provided by Stoveliker on the inverse heat output and emissions profiles is spot on.
Reading test reports will demonstrate/confirm the information. When you reduce burn rate and decrease air intake, the flow rate through the combustor slows increasing residence time of emissions within the combustor. Counter intuitively, combustors can get much hotter in lower burn rates as a result of increased chemical reaction/conversion.

Secondary combustion stoves typically burn cleanest at their peak burn rate.

Regulators and industry, as well as consumer polling data, suggest 80% of wood burners operate their wood heaters on low and medium low 80% of the time.

This is where "weighted average emissions" comes into play. From all the multiple emissions test done when seeking certification, 80% of your weighted emissions is based upon the units low and medium low test results.

What is important to one person may not be as important to another. Set your priorities, such as:

Possible/achievable low burn duration
Efficiency
Emissions
Appearance
Ease of use
FBV
Etc.

Then once you have your list, look for the stove that most qualifies. That way, with good seasoned wood, you should be pleased.

100% of the 2020 EPA Certified wood stoves are good heaters with varying USP's (unique selling propositions).

As Stoveliker ALWAYS suggests, go cut, split and stack wood NOW. That way, regardless of which model you purchase, you'll get the most from that stove.

Auf Wiedersehen Herr Harpspiel,
BKVP

Helpful priority list, thank you! We won’t have time or energy to chop our own wood for burning this year, but perhaps we can start looking for wood to buy now and put some effort into seasoning it. The price difference is so great that even when purchasing wood, we will be saving a lot of money by using a woodstove this year.

And it’s Frau Although I am only German by descent, just plain ol’ American by birth.

 

[stoveliker]

Indeed, you'll need a taller chimney (most likely) then.
8" diameter is also larger than what most stoves want (to function properly); standard is 6".
In fact, 8" (inner diameter) is mostly (only?) used for big stoves. Such as the BK King (and others). Big stoves have a higher low end of the output.
So if you indeed have 8" inner diameter (diameter of the "hole"), that will conflict with a low output wish.

7k BTU output is VERY low for a stove, and in fact is much more amenable to a (minisplit) heat pump. Generally I would not recommend a stove for that range (in the dead of winter you need more, so then the stove would work fine). Especially because a poorly drafting chimney (because too short) will result in a higher low end of the output range, because the draft might stall if you close the air of to the maximum you can. (If the chimney does not suck enough, then the system might not create enough heat to sustain a sucking when you close the air inlet down.)

So, a short chimney and 8" dia plead against a low output stove - in general. I don't know the other brand, maybe they claim it'll work. I'd not be surprised that you run into a bit of trouble if you try.

Note that from 7k to 10k is not "a little" more heat; it is almost 50% more heat.

In general I would not buy a tool or appliance that only works for me if I'm running it at its (one of the two) extreme. That's asking for trouble imo. Given that I suspect that no stove (with decently long reload times, i.e. a decently sized firebox) will have 7k BTU at 1/4 of it's output (i.e. it can go down more), I suggest that this specific situation calls for another solution.

I therefore have to suggest that @rijim 's recommendation is very good.
In fact, some folks like a stove with a large output range (i.e. from very low to "normal high"), others e.g. @EbS-P) ALWAYS (to paraphrase @BKVP) recommend a heat pump with a stove that's good for high output. In this case I concur as the wished low end is too low imo to be workable.

 

[begreen]

Regulators and industry, as well as consumer polling data, suggest 80% of wood burners operate their wood heaters on low and medium low 80% of the time

That's quite normal. There are very few conditions where one would need or want to run on high continuously. Usually, that is a case of a person trying to heat with insufficient BTUs to maintain the temperature in that area.
Regardless of how cold it is outside, our stove has rarely been run with the air at 50% open once it is burning well. The month I did have to run it that way, it was for wood that got wet under the top covers. Normally, running the stove at more than about 10-25% air is inefficient, resulting in undesirably high flue temps and wasted heat.

 

[kborndale]

Helpful priority list, thank you! We won’t have time or energy to chop our own wood for burning this year, but perhaps we can start looking for wood to buy now and put some effort into seasoning it. The price difference is so great that even when purchasing wood, we will be saving a lot of money by using a woodstove this year.

And it’s Frau Although I am only German by descent, just plain ol’ American by birth.

It's a bit late in the year to buy wood that will be ready to burn this winter unless it is kiln dried which makes it much more expensive and still doesn't guarantee they cooked it long enough to get it to 20%. Being that you already may have low draft issues and want to burn low and slow in a cat stove, having subpar wood complicates those issues even more.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

It's a bit late in the year to buy wood that will be ready to burn this winter unless it is kiln dried which makes it much more expensive and still doesn't guarantee they cooked it long enough to get it to 20%. Being that you already may have low draft issues and want to burn low and slow in a cat stove, having subpar wood complicates those issues even more.

This is definitely true in general, but it may be easier to find dry wood in New Mexico.

A moisture meter is a very valuable tool. In order to use one properly it is necessary to make sure that the wood you are testing is not cold or frozen. (In winter most folks will bring wood into the house for twenty-four hours prior to testing.) Temperature should not be an issue for testing wood right now, though. One should split the piece to be tested and insert the pins of the moisture meter into the freshly split face (most meters specify running with the grain, I believe, but check the instructions of any meter you use). You don’t want to test the ends of a piece or the outside of a piece that is not freshly split.

When we moved to Texas from Virginia about five years ago, my husband and I were shocked how quickly our wood seasons here in comparison to our climate back east. We get much more sun, higher temperatures, and there is simply less humidity. Even very dense live oak can season rather quickly in the right conditions. (Much of our wood is cedar, though.) Back east oak would take at least two summers for us, and that was when we split it small and stacked it near a south-facing brick wall that helped bake it.

I don’t know how New Mexico compares to my location, but you’re farther west of the “dry line” in the country. I just wanted to encourage you to get a moisture meter so that you know where you stand with any wood you buy or process yourself. It is a useful tool for learning how truly seasoned (dry) wood feels and sounds in comparison to fresh/green/wet wood.

You definitely don’t want to try burning wet wood in an EPA stove. It will give very disappointing results. It may be that buying a compressed wood product (Biobricks, Redstone Fuel blocks, and the like) could get you through your first season still more inexpensively than propane. It may not be impossible, however, for you to find dry wood now, though, given your location. Get a moisture meter and start learning what’s available.

 

[BKVP]

Helpful priority list, thank you! We won’t have time or energy to chop our own wood for burning this year, but perhaps we can start looking for wood to buy now and put some effort into seasoning it. The price difference is so great that even when purchasing wood, we will be saving a lot of money by using a woodstove this year.

And it’s Frau Although I am only German by descent, just plain ol’ American by birth.

Alles Gut Frau Harpspiel!

 

[Harpspiel]

This is definitely true in general, but it may be easier to find dry wood in New Mexico.

A moisture meter is a very valuable tool. In order to use one properly it is necessary to make sure that the wood you are testing is not cold or frozen. (In winter most folks will bring wood into the house for twenty-four hours prior to testing.) Temperature should not be an issue for testing wood right now, though. One should split the piece to be tested and insert the pins of the moisture meter into the freshly split face (most meters specify running with the grain, I believe, but check the instructions of any meter you use). You don’t want to test the ends of a piece or the outside of a piece that is not freshly split.

When we moved to Texas from Virginia about five years ago, my husband and I were shocked how quickly our wood seasons here in comparison to our climate back east. We get much more sun, higher temperatures, and there is simply less humidity. Even very dense live oak can season rather quickly in the right conditions. (Much of our wood is cedar, though.) Back east oak would take at least two summers for us, and that was when we split it small and stacked it near a south-facing brick wall that helped bake it.

I don’t know how New Mexico compares to my location, but you’re farther west of the “dry line” in the country. I just wanted to encourage you to get a moisture meter so that you know where you stand with any wood you buy or process yourself. It is a useful tool for learning how truly seasoned (dry) wood feels and sounds in comparison to fresh/green/wet wood.

You definitely don’t want to try burning wet wood in an EPA stove. It will give very disappointing results. It may be that buying a compressed wood product (Biobricks, Redstone Fuel blocks, and the like) could get you through your first season still more inexpensively than propane. It may not be impossible, however, for you to find dry wood now, though, given your location. Get a moisture meter and start learning what’s available.

New Mexico is the third least humid state in the country, certainly drier than Texas. I already bought a moisture meter, thanks for the moisture meter tips.

 

[Harpspiel]

Anyone else want to chime in on BK 20.2 vs Woodstock Fireview? I just visited the local BK dealer and have a little sticker shock. The local dealer said a 30.2 would be more stove than I need, and seemed confident I can buy seasoned wood for burning this year.

The BKs are not very attractive in person, but the Fireview is a little “formal” looking for my taste, and I’m concerned about its durability with the soapstone exterior. Other than that, I’m attracted to the Fireview’s price and ability to turn way down. The dealer said that at this elevation I’ll realistically get a minimum of 13,5k out of the BK. I suspect that translates to a more realistic output of 9-10k from the Fireview.

If I’m understanding the feedback here correctly, I’m gathering that cats burn a lot cleaner at the low end of their range than non-cats, and I suspect I’ll spend a lot of the season at the low end. If I’m wrong about that, and I can burn a Drolet Escape 1200 around 12-13k cleanly, then it’s still in the running.

 

[begreen]

Not impressed with the dealer. If anything I would think the BTU output might be a bit lower at altitude.

 

[kborndale]

Take what the dealer says with a grain of salt. They are just trying to sell you something and generally aren't very knowledgeable. There are a couple that know what they are talking about but they are few and far between.

 

[Todd]

Non cats also burn cleaner at their lower outputs. Higher air settings with either type of stove will increase the draft and let more smoke up the chimney before the secondary burn can take place.

 

[BKVP]

Read test reports for specific unit/technology burn rate and corresponding emissions.

 

[Harpspiel]

I have settled on the Drolet Deco Nano for this year, reasoning:

• $2k less than the Fireview (factoring in the rebate), and I don't want to commit to a 3k wood stove right now
• Fits better on the existing hearth pad
• Won't be as damaged by less seasoned wood
• Doesn't need the chimney to be as tall - 12' at sea level, I currently have 14' from the stove top, so I'll try it as is and extend if necessary

We may be really annoyed by the short burn times by the end of the season. If that's the case, we have plans to make a 500 sq ft barn on the property into a rentable living space, so we can transfer the Drolet into the barn and buy the Fireview next year.

After some more investigation into the insulation and heat loss of the house and potential energy generated by the solar greenhouse, I believe we will only need about 32k BTUs on the coldest day/night of the year (assuming cloudy, no solar gain), and more like 20k on an average January day. That is to heat the whole house, not just the main living room, and we'll be doing some special wiring on the propane heater so it only runs the fan most of the time, to circulate air in the house. The greenhouse will also have duct work running straight to the heater, so heat from the greenhouse can be circulated as well, using the pre-existing central air system.

 

[stoveliker]

I think that's a perfect solution; try something so you can figure out what works, and if it does not you have a secondary use for it.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I have settled on the Drolet Deco Nano for this year, reasoning:

• $2k less than the Fireview (factoring in the rebate), and I don't want to commit to a 3k wood stove right now
• Fits better on the existing hearth pad
• Won't be as damaged by less seasoned wood
• Doesn't need the chimney to be as tall - 12' at sea level, I currently have 14' from the stove top, so I'll try it as is and extend if necessary

We may be really annoyed by the short burn times by the end of the season. If that's the case, we have plans to make a 500 sq ft barn on the property into a rentable living space, so we can transfer the Drolet into the barn and buy the Fireview next year.

After some more investigation into the insulation and heat loss of the house and potential energy generated by the solar greenhouse, I believe we will only need about 32k BTUs on the coldest day/night of the year (assuming cloudy, no solar gain), and more like 20k on an average January day. That is to heat the whole house, not just the main living room, and we'll be doing some special wiring on the propane heater so it only runs the fan most of the time, to circulate air in the house. The greenhouse will also have duct work running straight to the heater, so heat from the greenhouse can be circulated as well, using the pre-existing central air system.

hey so, just consider one thing here for that rentable space. A wood burning stove in the hands of someone that doesn't give two craps about YOUR place, could be a recipe for disaster. Renters in general, aren't going to take as much care about a place they own. When you become an owner, you realize quickly how much care and feeding a property needs. When you are a renter, you feel entitled to a certain level of safety and maintenance. That's just how it goes. So if they over feed it, decide they won't let you in to clean it but keep burning it (and they can do that!), again, recipe for disaster.
At best, I would consider short term rentals like AirBNB , although I absolutely HATE Airbnb renters in my area and the owners, it may be the best option for rentals for you. You can provide guidance, make sure you have smoke/fire/co detectors, make sure you have temperature alarms for the stove, and then that gives you the ability to get in there between guests and take care of it.
Heck do a little video of it on YouTube on how to properly start and take care of a fire. Most guests will buy one arm of wood and expect it to last all night. Kinda how campers do, which his pretty funny.
The very notion of long term renters is terrifying to me. Ive heard too many horror stories.
This one guy I knew had this townhouse new the city. He paid this painter acquaintance he knew and used fairly often to paint the entire place before renting it to the next renter. A couple of weeks go by, he hadn't heard from the guy. He called and never got a reply. Another week goes by, he calls again and texts (this is when texts weren't super common). Again, nothing. So he leaves his business and drives 1.5 hours away, puts his key into the doorknob and it doesn't turn. He looks around to make sure he has the right townhouse lol. Yup, that's his and the workers truck is in the driveway. He immediately starts to panic, pounds on the door and hears people whispering, bangs louder - "FRED GET OUT HERE WHAT IN THE HECK ARE YOU DOING!". Nothing. He calls the cops, they LOL at him and say, that's a civil matter you will need to prove they aren't renting, and don't have squatters rights. WHAT?! SQUATTERS RIGHTS!?
Months go by, he finally gets them out of there after SIX MONTHS. When he arrives, it looks like they held parties in there every night. The carpet has human feces on it, cigarettes were thrown and put out on the floor, alcohol bottles and cans everywhere, drug stuff. He hired a restoration company to basically gut the place, spend another ...at the time, 60k to renovate then quickly sold it and never rented again.

 

[Harpspiel]

That is quite the horror story, but I’m perfectly aware of the potential hazards of renting and how squatter’s rights legally work in my state (in general the painter would have to have been there for a full month). My father is a contractor and landlord and I grew up maintaining and renovating his properties, and I used to work as the maintenance coordinator for a property management company. The barn is near the main house and will be a short-term rental, and how rural it feels should be most of the draw. A non-cat stove is much simpler to operate and I have stayed in a few short-term rentals with stoves, which I found charming. I know what I’m doing and getting into here.

 

[kborndale]

I personally would never have a stove in a rental, too easy to overfire. A fireplace is much safer and something that most renters (especially short term) would rather have.