BK Ashford 30 Install

[AlbergSteve]

Also, this corrugated Selkirk DSP is horrible pipe. It clearly provides no sealing of the air, just "directs" the smoke. Look at what came out when I blew a hair dryer up the flue.

What the hell- that ain't right. Nothing should be coming out of that pipe. What's the short piece of pipe between the dsp and the stove?

 

[Ashful]

Also, this corrugated Selkirk DSP is horrible pipe. It clearly provides no sealing of the air, just "directs" the smoke. Look at what came out when I blew a hair dryer up the flue.

Houston, we have a problem. Even if the pipe has a chitty seal, all junk should fall back down inside pipe, never come outside. Paging @bholler, possible install issue in post 125.

 

[bholler]

I agree it is pretty shty pipe but something isn't right there. Although blowing up the pipe creates a positive pressure not the normal negative pressure. So a little dust wouldn't surprise me. That is quite a bit though.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Also there was a downdraft since the stove was cold. I was reversing it with the dryer and as soon as I turned it on high the stuff puffed out. That is likely where the smell is coming. It can also come out around cat probe if the draft is low. BTW, it is not dust. If you can't make it out there is a lot of black "crumbs", pretty sure they are creosote crumbs.

That connector is Selkirk 6" DSP Stove Adapter. It looks like that's how it's supposed to be installed according to their manual. I've seen every seam burst with smoke when the draft was too low and it ignited gas in the pipe (the first week I think). I'm not sure there is anything specifically wrong with this connector. The only obvious one is that they didn't install the finishing collar over the chimney connector, which specifically is mandated in the manual.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Also there was a downdraft since the stove was cold. I was reversing it with the dryer and as soon as I turned it on high the stuff puffed out. That is likely where the smell is coming. It can also come out around cat probe if the draft is low.

That connector is Selkirk 6" DSP Stove Adapter. It looks like that's how it's supposed to be installed according to their manual. I've seen every seam burst with smoke when the draft was too low and it ignited gas in the pipe (the first week I think). I'm not sure there is anything specifically wrong with this connector. The only obvious one is that they didn't install the finishing collar over the chimney connector, which specifically is mandated in the manual.

I'd try removing the adapter and see if your double wall will fit on to the stove collar without it. That eliminates one joint, a very leaky one by the looks of it. My double wall tele pipe fits very snugly over the collar and tight to the stove top without the use of an adapter. My Regency and PE fit the same way.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

@AlbergSteve That is an option when I get the 45's. I might be able to just remove the adapter and go straight into the same 2' pipe. I think the guys tried that when they put everything together though.

If you think that joint is bad you should see the connections on the 90...

 

[AlbergSteve]

@AlbergSteve That is an option when I get the 45's. I might be able to just remove the adapter and go straight into the same 2' pipe. I think the guys tried that when they put everything together though.

Might help with your draft a bit as well - if it's drawing cold air from that joint.

 

[moresnow]

My double wall tele pipe fits very snugly over the collar and tight to the stove top without the use of an adapter

Same situation for mine. Its actually a challenge re-installing it after each cleaning. A bit of a fight squeezing/wiggling/commenting etc. to get it to finally settle in. Definitely worth a try in my opinion.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Ya, I was considering switching to Duravent DVL (which is what they quoted and supposed to bring) but it's not technically compatible with the Selkirk UT Chimney. The connections are relatively snug but just do not seal well with this crappy corrugated design. I'm sure they are letting in tons of cool air.

 

[95XL883]

VCS, if you will permit a remark from a lurker. I run an old smoke dragon zero-clearance and am nowhere near as knowledgeable as most who are trying to help. That said, I've been around construction my whole life and most of my professional life. While most construction is at least passable and some is truly outstanding, I've seen some unbelievable screw-ups. It certainly sounds like your chimney is poorly constructed. Obviously, all the joints need to be closely checked but I can think of three other things you may want to check.

First, put a level on the horizontal pipe. (Don't eyeball it, use a level.) I've seen drainpipes installed wrong and one that even passed inspection. (That was an expensive fix as it was under concrete in a highly finished basement.)

Second, it is possible the installers left something in the pipe, a tool, a rag, something that partially blocks the flow. I've seen that happen more than once.

Finally, this may be a reach but check the pipe diameters. I've never seen it but I can easily imagine some doesn't care about it installer, putting in an 8" pipe when it should be 6". (My understanding is the Ashford's are designed for a 6" flue but check the manual.)

As I said, I'm not very knowledgeable about the newer fireplaces but it sounds like your problem is poor installation. Even worse, it sounds like the installer doesn't care. Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

@95XL883 Of course! Thanks for the suggestions. I will be taking apart/replacing the stove pipe next week and cleaning out the chimney. I would not be completely surprised based on the quality of work. Definitely the diameter is correct at 6". They at least didn't screw that up.

 

[begreen]

Also there was a downdraft since the stove was cold. I was reversing it with the dryer and as soon as I turned it on high the stuff puffed out. That is likely where the smell is coming. It can also come out around cat probe if the draft is low. BTW, it is not dust. If you can't make it out there is a lot of black "crumbs", pretty sure they are creosote crumbs.

That connector is Selkirk 6" DSP Stove Adapter. It looks like that's how it's supposed to be installed according to their manual. I've seen every seam burst with smoke when the draft was too low and it ignited gas in the pipe (the first week I think). I'm not sure there is anything specifically wrong with this connector. The only obvious one is that they didn't install the finishing collar over the chimney connector, which specifically is mandated in the manual.

Would the DSP fit directly into the flue collar without the adapter?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I don't think the DSP pipe fits directly on the stove collar.

So reading through the Selkirk manual I'm pretty sure all of the connections are supposed to be mated tightly against what they call the "bead". That is supposed to form the seal. The corrugated area is just supposed to provide some tension. There is probably the equivalent area of a 1/2"-1" pipe directly open into the flue from each connection. One area I can almost fit my pinky finger into around the 90.

The connections all need to be pushed up to an inch to fully seal. Does that seem like it could be the root cause of these draft issues? If so, this is a very sloppy install. A second tech came to "check" and said it was installed properly. I feel like they should be reported to the CSIA and FPI for a dangerous install. The are registered installers for both.

I will see if some of the connections can be reseated sometime this weekend, but the 45s will be installed next week regardless.

 

[Ashful]

Ya.... I'm sure they are letting in tons of cool air.

This could be your single biggest problem.

 

[Nigel459]

I don't think the DSP pipe fits directly on the stove collar.
...
The connections all need to be pushed up to an inch to fully seal. Does that seem like it could be the root cause of these draft issues? If so, this is a very sloppy install.

I have DSP on a BK Sirocco 20. While I agree that it’s not the best pipe, my run is safe and sealed up well, pipes mated to those beads snugly. Even with two 45s. Sure sounds like your setup needs tightening up.

Also, the stove adapter was not required on my install. I had one on hand but it was not a snug fit and the telescoping fit perfectly and looked cleaner... check that as well... we may be on to something here. Good luck, you should be loving every minute of this stove, hope you get there ASAP.

 

[Nigel459]

Crappy pic I had to lighten to show the pipe, but shows the dsp fully mated and the telescoping pipe right over the stove collar.

It’s not a super long run, has 2 45s in it, and not a whiff of smoke smell. We run it low and slow for weeks and weeks in the shoulder season. Love it. Once again, hope you get it sorted.

 

[Highbeam]

I have DSP on a BK Sirocco 20. While I agree that it’s not the best pipe, my run is safe and sealed up well, pipes mated to those beads snugly. Even with two 45s. Sure sounds like your setup needs tightening up.

Also, the stove adapter was not required on my install. I had one on hand but it was not a snug fit and the telescoping fit perfectly and looked cleaner... check that as well... we may be on to something here. Good luck, you should be loving every minute of this stove, hope you get there ASAP.

Just to add, any leak in your pipe system will suck air in and act to spoil your draft since every bit of room air sucked in means that much less sucking on your firebox to keep the smoke.

Every leak in your flue system is like shortening your stack.

 

[MissMac]

I have the same Selkirk pipe as you, and the same stove-top collar/adapter piece. I think a lot of people use Selkirk without any issues, but like you I’m not thrilled with it, and wonder if it is part of my issue with the char smell that I get. Unfortunately my telescoping pipe does not fit around the stove collar, which is why the adapter is there. If you have Selkirk pipe, i’m sure you’ll find the same thing.

I wish I had spent more time lurking on this forum prior to getting my stove installed. I think I would have made a few different choices, one of them being using a different brand of pipe. However, this pipe is what the dealer recommended, so one would think/hope that the people who sell the stove would know a good pipe to go with it. I asked the chimney sweep last spring if it was possible to put Duravent pipe coming off the stove, however I was told that I’d have to replace the whole run of pipe since different brands aren’t compatible.

I have never seen smoke come out of any joints in my system like you have, but i’m interested to know if/how you get a solution to your smell issues. I think that this summer i might try to seal up the seam between the stove top adapter and the stove collar to see if that helps.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Ah ok. It might be a tolerance issue with the stove collar. Some are saying their telescoping pipe fits tightly over the BK collar. My adapter looks to be about 1/4" too large for the collar though. I think that is too loose a fit.

That is highly suspicious you get the same char smell @MissMac. That is a better way to describe it. It's not just that but my stove is also stalling and snuffing the flame below 75% air setting. So I'm almost using it without adjusting the air at all to prevent the smell. It's actually smelling right now at full open when the stove is hot but flames+draft died down.

 

[Ashful]

Ah ok. It might be a tolerance issue with the stove collar. Some are saying their telescoping pipe fits tightly over the BK collar. My adapter looks to be about 1/4" too large for the collar though. I think that is too loose a fit.

Just to be clear, on double wall, the part that goes over the collar is not the flue. That goes inside the collar. The overlap part is just the heat shield on double wall, and does not need to be snug, but it can prevent the inner part from sealing tight if it bottoms out on top of the stove.

 

[begreen]

Try eliminating the DSP adapter.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I got the 45's and started taking apart the pipe tonight.
First thing: there is a lot of creosote buildup in the stove pipe after ~1 cord of well seasoned wood. Not sure how much to expect, but we have been doing a lot of running inactive because of the short burn times. I bet the rest of the chimney is equally coated and limiting the draft like it seemed the past couple weeks.

Second: I'm pretty positive the smoke/creo smell is from the DSP adapter. The major sign is that there is quite a bit of deposits on the outside of the flue collar and the outer wall of the adapter is very loose and essentially wide open. The smoke can easily make it around the outside of the collar connector and unless there is very high draft it seems easy for it to start seeping out around the base. It could also pull a decent amount of air from around the collar and the elbow at other times when the draft is strong.

Third: The 2ft DSP pipe fits very nicely onto the collar (both inner and outer walls) and these installers could have easily used the 3ft section they brought and my hole would have been a ft higher. I said "why use that?!" They said "Oh...you're supposed to use this adapter".

Will update when I get everything together! Looks like I will have to cut some pipe to bridge between the two 45's but the good news it that I will only have about 6-9" of horizontal run. I'm really hoping it runs well after all this!

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I got the 45's and started taking apart the pipe tonight.
First thing: there is a lot of creosote buildup in the stove pipe after ~1 cord of well seasoned wood. Not sure how much to expect, but we have been doing a lot of running inactive because of the short burn times. I bet the rest of the chimney is equally coated and limiting the draft like it seemed the past couple weeks.

Second: I'm pretty positive the smoke/creo smell is from the DSP adapter. The major sign is that there is quite a bit of deposits on the outside of the flue collar and the outer wall of the adapter is very loose and essentially wide open. The smoke can easily make it around the outside of the collar connector and unless there is very high draft it seems easy for it to start seeping out around the base. It could also pull a decent amount of air from around the collar and the elbow at other times when the draft is strong.

Third: The 2ft DSP pipe fits very nicely onto the collar (both inner and outer walls) and these installers could have easily used the 3ft section they brought and my hole would have been a ft higher. I said "why use that?!" They said "Oh...you're supposed to use this adapter".

Will update when I get everything together! Looks like I will have to cut some pipe to bridge between the two 45's but the good news it that I will only have about 6-9" of horizontal run. I'm really hoping it runs well after all this!

Good diagnosis.

I've found doing this sort of stuff yourself so valuable. Hope you are close to your solution.

 

[Ashful]

What Ed said. Also, adjust those crimped ends to get tight fits on the inner tube. More comparing = smaller ID = looser. Smooth them out to make it tighter.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

What Ed said. Also, adjust those crimped ends to get tight fits on the inner tube. More comparing = smaller ID = looser. Smooth them out to make it tighter.

I'm all for mind over matter as a concept, but
you can compare all day, and I don't think it'll change a thing. On the other hand, more crimping might lead to a smaller ID.