Blaze King Ashford Or Hearthstone Manchester

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Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
Yes, they can, but based on the requirements it doesn't sound like a cat stove is needed. The Lopi Liberty, Osburn 3500, Pacific Energy Summit or Alderlea T6, all fall in the 12 hr. mild weather burn and 8 hrs in cold weather but they have a higher top-end output. In hybrids, the Manchester or GM80, the Regency 3500 are available options.
Yeah definitely don’t need a cat for extended burns. Controllability is what I’m ultimately after. That was part of my interest in the hybrids. More output for shorter periods like a non cat, but maybe more control? We’ve discussed the T6, but do you feel those other non cat stoves are that controllable? I’ve ruled the Regency out for fitment reasons.
 

Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
Yeah definitely don’t need a cat for extended burns. Controllability is what I’m ultimately after. That was part of my interest in the hybrids. More output for shorter periods like a non cat, but maybe more control? We’ve discussed the T6, but do you feel those other non cat stoves are that controllable? I’ve ruled the Regency out for fitment reasons.
I guess where I’m coming from is that with my current stove:
With a small load I can get a lot of heat for a short period or a little heat for a medium period.
With a large load i get a lot of heat for a short period, followed by medium heat for a short period, and low heat for a short period.
There’s no option for medium heat for a long period, or high heat for a medium period, if that makes sense.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,339
Long Island NY
For your placement options, get a large cardboard box, fold it open, and cut it into the shape of the stove.

Tape on the floor works too but cardboard gives you a better impression of the size.imo.

Regarding controllability, I would suggest that few if any stoves are as even and controllable as the BKs due to the thermostat. Even if you don't need the low and slow shoulder season heating, the excellent even temperatures of BKs are unsurpassed, imo.

Example, I've been heating (Chinook) these days for 20 hrs or so per load, and the temperature fluctuates between 70.5 and 71 over that course of time. Of course this also depends on heat loss of the home, and thus outside temps. They went from 50 to 28 F these days.

I've seen owners of other modern brand stoves say they fluctuate between 68 and 72 or so. A four degree swing to me would mean quite different levels of comfort; imagine a 66 f sitting down versus a 70 F vacuuming. (The other way around is better, but there are limitations to how well reloading (and associated temp swings) can be controlled to match other daily activities.)

My $0.02
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,483
South Puget Sound, WA
An Ashford or Chinook 30 will easily provide medium heat for a long period. The T6 does too but more like soapstone, releasing heat over time as the fire burns down. Steady heating with little room temp swing is one of the first differences I noticed in comparison to the F400 it replaced.
 
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EatenByLimestone

Super Moderator
Staff member
Was it Jotul that made the side loading stove? That could give N/S loading to a stove that appears E/W.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,339
Long Island NY
An Ashford or Chinook 30 will easily provide medium heat for a long period. The T6 does too but more like soapstone, releasing heat over time as the fire burns down. Steady heating with little room temp swing is one of the first differences I noticed in comparison to the F400 it replaced.
That may be. It shows that all is relative - as apparently that improved from a worse (in this aspect) stove you had before. It was you who I referred to who had said that they had a 4 deg temperature swing. And I compared that to the absence of one when using anstove with a thermostat.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
20,022
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
No problem, my wife is of the same mindset. She does not like the look of soapstone and gives a strong thumbs down to the quirky steel stove styling. Their engineering is good. It's too bad they don't collaborate with nearby VC for a nicely styled cast iron jacket.
That would be a lovely collaboration. The looks of a VC with the smarts of a Woodstock.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,483
South Puget Sound, WA
Yes, I try to avoid hyperbole. That is before startup and peak heat in the stove room. The rest of the house is more evenly heated but if I err in running the stove, a 4 or more degree swing is possible. Normally while the stove is running the temp range could be 3-4º but the difference from 70 to 74 is not unpleasant, especially when it's cold out. Many run their stove rooms much hotter. If you're vacuuming, take the long sleeve shirt off.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,483
South Puget Sound, WA
That would be a lovely collaboration. The looks of a VC with the smarts of a Woodstock.
Yes, that would be very attractive to me.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
20,022
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
You guys have introduced me to a lot of stoves I didn’t know existed and I’ve had fun researching all of them. With the requirement that it doesn’t stick into the room too far (which is reasonable considering the room size and layout), I think I’m mostly going to be stuck with E/W loaders. That eliminates a lot. I looked at a T5 in person (they didn’t have a T6 on the floor)- really liked it but definitely too deep.

I looked at the VC defiant as well. It had a lot of cool features but sounds like a lot of maintenance and potential for problems I want to stay away from.

The Jotul F55 is intriguing. Good box size, emissions and output and would fit my space. The HHV efficiency seemed disappointing considering everything else. I wonder if this affects the new rebate starting Jan 1?

I was interested in the Woodstock Ideal Steel until the wife shot it down for appearance.

After considering everyone’s thoughts, here’s where I’m at. I need more heat and more controllability than what I have. Case in point last night. I loaded the box N/S instead of E/W. I also didn’t have as big of splits as I normally do at night and I was too lazy to go outside to restock. I put in seven 3-3.5 inch x 16 splits (normally pack it with six to eight 4-4.5inch splits). I let it get going then gradually shut it down completely at 400 degrees. It went along there for an hr, then it ramped to 650. Had to shut the damper to get it to calm down and ran the fan to cool the box some. Of course it was too hot in the house but by 2am it was a bit chilly. (Went to bed at 30 degrees, woke up at 7 to 22 degrees). I still had lots of coals and 300 degree stove by 7am.
When I get it right with log orientation and size it ramps to 500-550. Again too much at first for mild nights and doesn’t last as long as I’d like.

I need more control and more even heat distribution over time. Also I need to get more heat when it’s -15 outside.

The reason I keep coming back to the Chinook is controllability. I think I could talk the wife into it even though it would take up more room in the space. It has 50% more btu at the high end so I think it would provide enough heat. It has a 2.9 box so it should be able to provide heat through the night. I don’t burn in the shoulder seasons-I don’t burn above 35 degrees. So I don’t need a super long burn. I tend to need 10-12 hrs of medium heat or 8hrs of high heat. It seems the BKs can do this?

Still thinking about the Manchester as well. Would fit my space great. Like the looks, soapstone lining, cast jacket and convection ducts between the box and jacket. Seems it should have similar heat output. I was wrong earlier- the box is only 2.45 which is the same as mine now. Interestingly my manual says capacity is 35lbs while the Manchester says 60lbs but same box size. Obviously depends on species, etc. I weighed my typical nighties splits and I usually pack 50-60#s in of Cherry, maple, birch, ash and oak. The box being same as mine makes me worry about burn time. A review I’ve heard elsewhere says he only gets 6-8 hrs of burn. I also suspect it still doesn’t have great control. Also, I have a wall to the left but not right. 16 inches of clearance is fine to the left but I suspect that means I couldn’t use the side door. Sounds like previous versions of the Manchester had left and right options but not the 8632.

I briefly looked at the GM 80. Again, love the looks and would fit my space. Same output as the Manchester and Chinook. 3cuft box is a plus. I actually like the sounds of all that better than the Manchester. I stopped looking when I saw the 8inch flue. My chimney (framed, inside, about 26ft) and current double wall pipe is 6 inch. I’m assuming it’s not a good idea to reduce the 8 inch outlet to a 6 inch pipe. Any thoughts on this? Would that increase or decrease draft? Make the stove not function properly?

Overall that’s where I’m at.

Happy Turkey Day everyone
I owned a hearthstone and actually measured the firebox and it was way way smaller than what the specifications listed. Some brands flat out lie about this so be sure to double check. The BK and my Englander are spot on. Woodstock has been shown to be optimistic as well but all of their stoves are pretty small.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,339
Long Island NY
Yes, I try to avoid hyperbole.
Me too. That is why I measure the temperature and have a 60 hr graph of 5 temperatures in my home.

Regardless of the differences in evenness (is that a word?) of temperatures, between BK and PE it appears no mistake can be made regarding quality of the stoves.
 
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Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
For your placement options, get a large cardboard box, fold it open, and cut it into the shape of the stove.

Tape on the floor works too but cardboard gives you a better impression of the size.imo.

Regarding controllability, I would suggest that few if any stoves are as even and controllable as the BKs due to the thermostat. Even if you don't need the low and slow shoulder season heating, the excellent even temperatures of BKs are unsurpassed, imo.

Example, I've been heating (Chinook) these days for 20 hrs or so per load, and the temperature fluctuates between 70.5 and 71 over that course of time. Of course this also depends on heat loss of the home, and thus outside temps. They went from 50 to 28 F these days.

I've seen owners of other modern brand stoves say they fluctuate between 68 and 72 or so. A four degree swing to me would mean quite different levels of comfort; imagine a 66 f sitting down versus a 70 F vacuuming. (The other way around is better, but there are limitations to how well reloading (and associated temp swings) can be controlled to match other daily activities.)

My $0.02
Good idea with the cardboard. Interestingly the Chinook would have the same footprint/location as my current stove. It’s not bad at all. It will be even better once we get rid of the hearth pad and either have a tiled surface flush with the flooring or just a thin ember pad. I think I can talk the wife into it. Anything that sticks further into the room is a no go. The further back it is the better. The Manchester would sit back another 5 inches.

That was my understanding with the BK. Do you find it controls that well on high, too? How long do you get heat on high? How long does it take to warm up once started? Since I often don’t burn during sunny days because of solar gain, I fear a soapstone or perhaps even cast iron stove may take so long to heat up once we need to build a fire at say 3pm. Seems we’d have to anticipate and build maybe a couple hours early in those scenarios.

Would definitely suck to get stuck with a BK at 12k btu on low on a sunny day where it gets 80 inside without supplemental heat. Would have to anticipate that as well.
 

Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
I owned a hearthstone and actually measured the firebox and it was way way smaller than what the specifications listed. Some brands flat out lie about this so be sure to double check. The BK and my Englander are spot on. Woodstock has been shown to be optimistic as well but all of their stoves are pretty small.
Interesting. May measure a floor model if we go that way. My Summers Heat (Englander) is also spot on.
 
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Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
Me too. That is why I measure the temperature and have a 60 hr graph of 5 temperatures in my home.

Regardless of the differences in evenness (is that a word?) of temperatures, between BK and PE it appears no mistake can be made regarding quality of the stoves.
Yes, definitely seems to be the case.
 

Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
Yes, they can, but based on the requirements it doesn't sound like a cat stove is needed. The Lopi Liberty, Osburn 3500, Pacific Energy Summit or Alderlea T6, all fall in the 12 hr. mild weather burn and 8 hrs in cold weather but they have a higher top-end output. In hybrids, the Manchester or GM80, the Regency 3500 are available options.
Is installing a Gm 80 and reducing to 6 inches just above the stove a bad idea? Would there be a way to get the draft right? What other problems could it cause?
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,339
Long Island NY
Space is important and may trump other considerations.

I get about 8, up to 10 hrs running high. But this is different from other 30-box users. So this will depend on the system (wood species, moisture content, chimney (draft of the system), air tightness of the home, heat reflecting to the stove causing the Tstat to dial down a bit, etc.)

Some folks claim they can burn down a box in 4-6 hrs.

How.long does it take to heat up - I think that after 30 minutes it sheds decent heat. That is also the time when the cat should already be engaged (bypass closed).
 

Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
I owned a hearthstone and actually measured the firebox and it was way way smaller than what the specifications listed. Some brands flat out lie about this so be sure to double check. The BK and my Englander are spot on. Woodstock has been shown to be optimistic as well but all of their stoves are pretty small.
Turns out this is excellent advice. Claimed box size on the Manchester is 2.45 but it measures only 2. Claimed box on the GM 60 is 2.0 and measures 1.6. Pretty disappointing.
 
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EatenByLimestone

Super Moderator
Staff member
The number of things guys can’t measure correctly is long. Just look at pics of fish we’ve caught! You always hold the fish as close to the camera as possible!

Rotflmao!
 
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Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
The number of things guys can’t measure correctly is long. Just look at pics of fish we’ve caught! You always hold the fish as close to the camera as possible!

Rotflmao!
Volume of a box doesn’t take a genius to measure and calculate. Interesting how I measured Lopi and Jotul boxes at the same store and measurements matched what they claimed. Same for my Englander as well as Highbeams Englander and BK.

Unless the “guys” you refer to are the “guys” at Hearthstone. And we won’t get into other things you might be measuring wrong…….
 

Jhelmick

New Member
Jun 6, 2022
31
Charlotte, VT
Did you also measure the space above the baffle?
No just below. I wondered that as well but not wouldn’t make sense. None of the other companies I measured included the space above the baffle. The other thing I wondered was about the space that the soapstone liner is occupying. Surely they wouldn’t include that. Who knows.
 

bundy150

New Member
Feb 21, 2021
82
Austin Texas
Don't the EPA reports and tests specify firebox size? GM60 is specified as 2.03 cuft usable volume in the EPA test report.
 
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