Blaze King Uphoria

[BKVP]

I will assume in PA you are mostly burning hardwoods. Rake your coals to the front. The air into the firebox enters top front. If you want the coals to burn down, to make room for more fuel, turn up the burn rate and lay a few pieces of softwood (pine) east/west on top of the coals. I have been using this technique for the past 3 seasons to help make room for more (larger) pieces of wood. You will find that in N/S loading, the glass will stay cleaner and you'll be able to fit more fuel into each load. Keep a good supply of seasoned softwoods in your wood shed for this process and also for getting a new fire started.

I'm fortunate that I have exhausted my entire inventory of hardwoods. I am running, for the next 4-5 years nothing but Douglas Fir and Western Larch (Tamarack), neither of which have much of coaling properties!

 

[stoveliker]

As a rule do you load East West?

No, almost exclusively north south. Easier, get more in.

Occasionally when I have splits that are a tad too long, I go east west.

I also have done a true north south (shorties standing up).

But north south is the way to go.

Also, the "catalyst thermostat" doesn't exist in a BK. That's a thermometer. The thermostat is the knob in the back.

 

[Ashful]

For the most part do you load East West?

No, I load all wood north-south. The only time I ever put anything east-west is if I'm loading a single split while trying to burn down a load of coals, all full loads go north-south.

As BKVP noted, build-up of hot coals is always an issue if you're pushing the stove hard on good hardwoods, although I don't push it hard as often as I used to, so it's not been much of an issue for me in recent years.

 

[bholler]

As a rule do you load East West?

I always load north south. And either rake to the front or spread them out never to the back

 

[MissMac]

MissMac,
In general what clock reference would say your catalyst thermostat be for most of your reloads saying that the one in my pic was suggesting a 9:30 position

Well that really depends, but I think my best answer is that when i'm burning pine, I pay more attention to what wood is/isn't left in my firebox and pull the trigger on a reload based on having a decent bit of coals to light off the next load, more than I look at the cat needle. I suppose the cat needle would be somewhere around 10:30. And again - this is only when i'm burning loads of just pine. Fiddle with your stove and you'll find a good routine of how much coals helps you get that next load going quickly and efficiently while meeting your heat needs and jiving with your schedule. One thing I can tell you with certainty is that I always regret when I let the stove burn down too much, even though it's still active and my house is still comfortable. Reloading on a bed of good coals is key in terms of being able to get the next load up and running and dialed down efficiently.

 

[Old Log House]

Well that really depends, but I think my best answer is that when i'm burning pine, I pay more attention to what wood is/isn't left in my firebox and pull the trigger on a reload based on having a decent bit of coals to light off the next load, more than I look at the cat needle. I suppose the cat needle would be somewhere around 10:30. And again - this is only when i'm burning loads of just pine. Fiddle with your stove and you'll find a good routine of how much coals helps you get that next load going quickly and efficiently while meeting your heat needs and jiving with your schedule. One thing I can tell you with certainty is that I always regret when I let the stove burn down too much, even though it's still active and my house is still comfortable. Reloading on a bed of good coals is key in terms of being able to get the next load up and running and dialed down efficiently.

Good info, the cat needle seems to drop quickly from 12’oclock especially if thermostat is dialed down, like you said just a matter of finding the sweet spots I guess…….

 

[stoveliker]

I think the crucial piece of info there was "when I'm burning pine". Pine does not give a lot of coals, and thus the drop in output will be faster than a species with a long coaling stage.

I can be hours and hours and hours from 12 o'clock to inactive - when using oak.

 

[bholler]

Good info, the cat needle seems to drop quickly from 12’oclock especially if thermostat is dialed down, like you said just a matter of finding the sweet spots I guess…….

You really are over thinking this. I load either when the house starts to get cold or when it's time to do it so that my next loading will work out either when I am home or awake. That means if it's 8 hours untill I go to bed and the load isn't going to make it untill I wake up I load it. Etc. It's just a woodstove. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

 

[Old Log House]

I will assume in PA you are mostly burning hardwoods. Rake your coals to the front. The air into the firebox enters top front. If you want the coals to burn down, to make room for more fuel, turn up the burn rate and lay a few pieces of softwood (pine) east/west on top of the coals. I have been using this technique for the past 3 seasons to help make room for more (larger) pieces of wood. You will find that in N/S loading, the glass will stay cleaner and you'll be able to fit more fuel into each load. Keep a good supply of seasoned softwoods in your wood shed for this process and also for getting a new fire started.

I'm fortunate that I have exhausted my entire inventory of hardwoods. I am running, for the next 4-5 years nothing but Douglas Fir and Western Larch (Tamarack), neither of which have much of coaling properties!

Yes mostly oak, hickory and ash since the arrival of the ash bore…..historically soft wood’s especially pine were frowned upon….I grew up with natural gas so was new to wood burning 20 years ago when we bought our farm which came with the old house

You really are over thinking this. I load either when the house starts to get cold or when it's time to do it so that my next loading will work out either when I am home or awake. That means if it's 8 hours untill I go to bed and the load isn't going to make it untill I wake up I load it. Etc. It's just a woodstove. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

That was pretty much my first week, then I noticed the bold do not load unless the catalyst needle was barely in the active range, so I didn’t want to have $300 catalyst repair because I was treating it like a wood stove and mistreating the catalyst but it sounds like you all are regularly “hot loading” with success……..and not destroying the cat………I burn mostly oak, hickory and thanks to the ash bore some ash…….

 

[bholler]

Yes mostly oak, hickory and ash since the arrival of the ash bore…..historically soft wood’s especially pine were frowned upon….I grew up with natural gas so was new to wood burning 20 years ago when we bought our farm which came with the old house

That was pretty much my first week, then I noticed the bold do not load unless the catalyst needle was barely in the active range, so I didn’t want to have $300 catalyst repair because I was treating it like a wood stove and mistreating the catalyst but it sounds like you all are regularly “hot loading” with success……..and not destroying the cat………I burn mostly oak, hickory and thanks to the ash bore some ash…….View attachment 293973

I throw the bypass and the cat temp comes down some if I have to hot load. But really I don't very often. And I got about 2.5 years out of my cat which is pretty standard.

And the softwood thing is an old wives tale. There is nothing wrong with burning softwood

 

[stoveliker]

Indeed, open the bypass for a minute or three or so before opening the door. Cat won't be so hot any more, even if the gauge won't show it yet (because it's slow)

 

[Old Log House]

I throw the bypass and the cat temp comes down some if I have to hot load. But really I don't very often. And I got about 2.5 years out of my cat which is pretty standard.

And the softwood thing is an old wives tale. There is nothing wrong with burning softwood

I guess I wasn’t expecting that short of a cat life…….2.5 standard huh?……
Blaze King Wood Limited 5 Year Warranty
Blaze King is the manufacturer of the Blaze King line of heating products. At Blaze King, our commitment to the highest level of quality and customer service is the most important thing we do. Each Blaze King stove is built on a tradition of using only the finest materials and is backed by our limited warranty to the original purchaser. With Blaze King, you’re not just buying a stove; you’re buying a company with years of unequalled performance and quality.
Limited Six (6) Year Warranty:
The CATALYTIC COMBUSTOR is under warranty by Blaze King for six (6) years from the date of original retail purchase. The purchaser shall pay the following share of the then current retail price for the combustor: The first three (3) years
no charge, 4th year 60%; 5th year 70%, 6th year 80%. The Combustor must be returned to your dealer along with a completed COMBUSTOR FAILURE REPORT and original proof of purchase document.

 

[bholler]

I guess I wasn’t expecting that short of a cat life…….2.5 standard huh?……
Blaze King Wood Limited 5 Year Warranty
Blaze King is the manufacturer of the Blaze King line of heating products. At Blaze King, our commitment to the highest level of quality and customer service is the most important thing we do. Each Blaze King stove is built on a tradition of using only the finest materials and is backed by our limited warranty to the original purchaser. With Blaze King, you’re not just buying a stove; you’re buying a company with years of unequalled performance and quality.
Limited Six (6) Year Warranty:
The CATALYTIC COMBUSTOR is under warranty by Blaze King for six (6) years from the date of original retail purchase. The purchaser shall pay the following share of the then current retail price for the combustor: The first three (3) years
no charge, 4th year 60%; 5th year 70%, 6th year 80%. The Combustor must be returned to your dealer along with a completed COMBUSTOR FAILURE REPORT and original proof of purchase document.

Yes all that means is you will get your first replacement free. The lifespan is 12000 to 15000 hours

 

[Ashful]

And the softwood thing is an old wives tale. There is nothing wrong with burning softwood

Nothing wrong with softwood, as long as it's dry.

But I like most old wive's tales, there's some true basis for it, even if mis-directed. Because many softwoods actually burn pretty well when wet, folks tended to burn it without proper drying, with the consequence of depositing a lot of creosote in the chimney. We've all discussed the mechanisms before, no need to repeat here, but it's worth noting the source of this old (bad) advice so that people understand.

Yes all that means is you will get your first replacement free. The lifespan is 12000 to 15000 hours

That's the number that's always repeated which seems to be about 3 years for most people using wood for primary heat.

But I'm nearing the end of year 4 with the cats in each of my two stoves, right now. Over 30 cords (and roughly 15k - 20k hours) thru one of them, no sign of trouble, yet. I know some manage to detect some deterioration in performance sooner than that, some as early as 10 - 12 cords, and I wonder if they have a different definition of lifespan than me.

I did replace my last pair at 3.5 years, roughly 21 cords thru the one and 10 cords thru the other, but same number of hours at differing burn rate. I don't know that they needed it, I think I did it more out of curiosity and superstition, than anything else. It is interesting that people always quote hours rather than cords, as one person could be doing 3x more cords than another, in the same hours.

On the flip side, I was thrilled if a cat would last a full season in my Jotuls. 😂

 

[Old Log House]

It is interesting that people always quote hours rather than cords, as one person could be doing 3x more cords than another, in the same hours.

Good point……

 

[bholler]

Nothing wrong with softwood, as long as it's dry.

But I like most old wive's tales, there's some true basis for it, even if mis-directed. Because many softwoods actually burn pretty well when wet, folks tended to burn it without proper drying, with the consequence of depositing a lot of creosote in the chimney. We've all discussed the mechanisms before, no need to repeat here, but it's worth noting the source of this old (bad) advice so that people understand.


That's the number that's always repeated which seems to be about 3 years for most people using wood for primary heat.

But I'm nearing the end of year 4 with the cats in each of my two stoves, right now. Over 30 cords (and roughly 15k - 20k hours) thru one of them, no sign of trouble, yet. I know some manage to detect some deterioration in performance sooner than that, some as early as 10 - 12 cords, and I wonder if they have a different definition of lifespan than me.

I did replace my last pair at 3.5 years, roughly 21 cords thru the one and 10 cords thru the other, but same number of hours at differing burn rate. I don't know that they needed it, I think I did it more out of curiosity and superstition, than anything else. It is interesting that people always quote hours rather than cords, as one person could be doing 3x more cords than another, in the same hours.

On the flip side, I was thrilled if a cat would last a full season in my Jotuls. 😂

I always heard the pine thing came from burning wet hard wood all year filling the chimney with creosote. Then running out and using some pine that was laying around and dries fast. It would burn hot and set the chimney on fire. Your version is just as plausible though.

As far as cat life. Yes some people get longer but most people here get 2 to 3 years. Most of my customers (if they care to replace their cat) get in that range if they heat full time. And the cat manufacturers generally agree 15000.

 

[Old Log House]

Most of my customers (if they care to replace their cat) get in that range if they heat full time.

So I would assume from this you are a stove dealer?

 

[bholler]

So I would assume from this you are a stove dealer?

A chimney sweep who also sells some regency stoves. Not really a dealer though. We only sell a dozen or so stoves a year. No showroom or anything

 

[BKVP]

OP. This is a very finite, obsessive, group of highly experienced wood burners. Some can tell their brand new tires do not have as much traction after 1,000 miles more than new!

And while that is certainly true and it is also true this group VOLUNTEERS their experiences in the aim to help, educate and prevent all sorts of troubles, in the greater, much larger world of wood burners, that use our catalytic stoves (not necessarily all cataltyic stoves), users get vastly more life (however you wish to define it) from their combustors.

Fact: Combustors do become less effective at PM reduction over time. Fact: How you use, maintain and feed your stove will influence life time. Fact: Overplating is what is transpiring in the burning of wood. Some overplating can be eliminated after several years by giving the combustor a very stinky bath, extending its less than perfect performance another year (season) or two.
Fact: Blaze King, since 2012, has offered a 10 Year, 100% no-fault warranty against thermal degradation and delamination on all our combustors.

Please report back with your experience as milage may and will vary.

 

[Ashful]

OP. This is a very finite, obsessive, group of highly experienced wood burners. Some can tell their brand new tires do not have as much traction after 1,000 miles more than new!

You just reminded me that I'm overdue to rotate my tires.

Of everyone I watch on this forum, it seems @Highbeam is very consistently replacing his combustors before 3 years. He'd be the high (or low?) water mark, on that subject, with very long burn seasons at the lowest burn rates. My question above about hours and not cords comes from a prior conversation with him, as he's surely burning more hours than me, but I'm also surely burning way more cords than him. Our un-scientific conclusion was that the cat is "working harder" at his lower burn rates, possibly also influenced by him burning mostly softwoods and me burning only hardwoods, and that possibly my higher burn rates leave less grams of unconsumed fuel going into the cat per cord burned. It sounded like a good theory, with some anecdotal evidence, however many variables we left unchecked.

In any case, if he's not already watching this thread, it will pop up in his notifications now.

Bottom line, you own a cat stove. This comes with several advantages, and one disadvantage: you will need to replace the combustor someday. Blaze King is giving you a free ride for 10 years, or one free combustor, depending on how quickly you ruin them. After that, figure on an amortization of $50 - $60 per year in combustor cost, to offset the several thousands of dollars worth of conventional liquid or electron fuel you've saved in he process of ruining said combustor. If I get 30 cords out of one combustor, and a cord contains roughly the same BTU's as 180 gallons of oil, I've saved $21,600 in the course of ruining a $200 combustor. I'm okay with that. Heck, if oil stays anywhere near it's present $4.69 local average, we could bump that savings to $25k per combustor, but I do expect it will come back down into the $3.60 range before my next replacement.

 

[kennyp2339]

I generally burn my princess using north / south loading, occasionally I'll have a few longer splits and do a burn running E / W method, I feel as though n/s I can get more wood loaded and tightly packed, also it tends to burn hotter.
Boggest thing I learned to do, was to keep my door adjusted properly, I replaced my gasket at the beginning of the season and backed the door adjuster all the way to almost the last thread, then tested, dollar bill felt pretty snug all around, yet the latch / door handle wasnt as stiff, almost like butter when turning the handle, so I hit the sweet spot and have no worries, the previous door gasket and door latch was pretty tight, I thought that was the "right" way of doing things since I had a rather deep grove embedded into my gasketed from the knife edge, now theres still a grove, not as deep but its doing its job just fine.

 

[BKVP]

I am looking for the factual science, backed by testing done at OMNI Test prior to the 2015 NSPS. This paper is the summary, I am looking for actual study. Dr. Jim Houck is and was considered the foremost authority on wood combustion. The CHC, in concert with EPA and their 3rd party contractor, commissioned a study of combustor longevity. It was the results of this study, conducted by OMNI Environmental Labs., that provided the data needed to eliminate the bifurcated standards in wood heaters (between technologies).

No question individual stoves/users have different experiences, however this study was from used combustors, directly from consumer homes to OMNI. The homes included BOTH burners of hardwoods (Northeast) and softwoods (PNW).

 

[BKVP]

Something I found in my files...please remember where this is for the future! It is a correction chart for MC reading based upon outside temps. Delmhorst are the experts and this has come in handy more than once!

 

[begreen]

I am looking for the factual science, backed by testing done at OMNI Test prior to the 2015 NSPS. This paper is the summary, I am looking for actual study. Dr. Jim Houck is and was considered the foremost authority on wood combustion. The CHC, in concert with EPA and their 3rd party contractor, commissioned a study of combustor longevity. It was the results of this study, conducted by OMNI Environmental Labs., that provided the data needed to eliminate the bifurcated standards in wood heaters (between technologies).

No question individual stoves/users have different experiences, however this study was from used combustors, directly from consumer homes to OMNI. The homes included BOTH burners of hardwoods (Northeast) and softwoods (PNW).

The OMNI report mentions only the age of the stoves removed from the houses (who provided them?) and not the hours on the catalyst. An 8 yr old stove only used on nights and weekends could still be under 12,000 cat hours. A cat stove in southern OR is going to see a lot less hours than the same model in AK so the age of the cat is less relevant information than the hours of use.

 

[stoveliker]

Also the "non-catalytic" wood stoves are all lumped together in an average that is contrasted with the catalytic woodstoves.
That suggests to me (given the absence of an explicit noting of the non-catalytic ones being modern tube stoves), that this average for the non-catalytic ones might be relatively high due to the inclusion of old (smoke dragon) stoves, rendering the relative advantage for catalytic stoves artificially high here as compared to when catalytic stoves would be compared to solely modern tube stoves.