Blazeking or Pacific Energy - 1st time buyer

[EatenByLimestone]

Box elder burns just fine. It’s the red headed step child of the maple family. As much as maple doesn’t want to claim it, funny leaves and colorful wood, it’s there every family get together.

 

[begreen]

I don’t know if you ever burned Boxelder but it’s a far cry from your Western Doug Fir.

I haven't, but have burned alder, soft maple, hemlock in the past. Of those, alder is probably the closest. Now that I am paying for my firewood, I don't touch it.

This would be disappointing. As much as I've been back and forth between the 2 stoves. I was really leaning towards the BK, in part because its $2000 cheaper after the rebate. But missing the rebate may not be a bad thing. Since my basement is currently unfinished, putting it off another year would give me time to complete my basement before I installed the stove. Which would eliminate some headaches trying to work around the stove. So to some extend, forgoing the rebate just buys me time. But its expensive time

So that's part of the reason I'm trying to find the best stove for my needs and not just looking for the cheapest option. I see it as a long term investment.

Consider getting an inexpensive stove to learn on. This could be a used stove or a basic good new stove from Drolet. The first few years of burning will be a learning experience. Burning habits will be learned and refined. Eventually, you might refuse to burn box elder except during milder weather. Put the money saved into insulating those basement walls. That's really important. Otherwise about one out of 3 cords burned will go to heating the outdoors due to heat loss through the walls. The investment in insulation is also tax deductible. At this point it sounds like the best investment if the basment is to be used as a living space. Otherwise, put the stove where the heat is wanted, on the main floor.

 

[EbS-P]

Its interesting that you said the BK required a more dedicated schedule.

It’s probably not really required but more a result once you get used to consistent heat. You never want to be without and you accomplish that by a strict loading schedule. Where as the heat cycling of a tube stove is a fact. And even a schedule won’t change that.

 

[BKVP]

To be clear, it is a tax credit, not a rebate. It reduces tax liability. See your tax preparer for how it would benefit you.

BKVP

 

[tabner]

The "30 minutes" is when you have a cold start. Just load it while the cat is active and interface duration may be 5 minutes.

BKVP

i almost said this, but didn't want to be yelled at for doing something wrong 🤣 But i would say from a cold start i can walk away from my Ashford 20 in about 20 to 25 mins and it's set for 8 to 18 hours (depending where i put the dial). if it's on continuous usage (usually is) meaning it's all up to temp and has coals, i can reload, close bypass, char the load, set it to cruise, and walk away inside 10 mins no problem. Especially if the wood is good and dry. I find maple and pine and ash all work really well for this. Sometimes Oak or Hickory i have to break in the load a little bit longer. But definitely during my usual 12 hour load cycle i run for most of the season, my reloads are inside 10 mins.

 

[Fargo]

Put the money saved into insulating those basement walls... The investment in insulation is also tax deductible.

Oh good point! My basement is insulated with fiberglass insulation, but it was a quick temporary job I did. I was considering tearing it out and going with spray foam. That stuff is not cheap. I never thought about offsetting the spray foam with the tax credit. Thank you.

 

[EbS-P]

All of this discussion is pointless if you can’t get a BK now. Call now say you want one only if they can install by 12/31.

 

[Fargo]

Conversation is still valid even if the tax credit is not available to me. I'm not basing my decision on the credit. Its just a huge bonus and a big reason to go with the BK. Even without the credit, the BK is $200+/- cheaper than the PE (Probably due to tariffs on Canadian built PE).

I just had my contact for the stoves out here over lunch break to verify the installation location. He is going to check on availability and get me the final quotes tomorrow. I told him I would need to get the BK installed before 12/31. So he knows. But your right that I should make sure I'm perfectly clear.

 

[Highbeam]

I have a BK princess, similar to the 30 box BKs, in a 1700 SF home in a much warmer climate. Heating 3400 in fargo is asking a lot of any stove so be sure that you have a good second source of heat. Have you considered a wood furnace?

Before the BK I had a modern tube stove, a hearthstone, for many years in this home. I'm on year 13 with the BK and am very happy I made the upgrade. The biggest improvement was the 24 hour burn times with low quality woods and a constantly automatically warm home while just having to load once a day. When it's single digit temperatures and windy I load twice a day but not full loads, need to keep the stove hot. The flexibility to burn long and low or hot and fast is what you will miss if you skip the cat stove, and the thermostat means constant heat output vs. the peak and trough of a noncat. On any of these stoves you can load whenever you want, even just to top off the fuel tank so you don't have to do it on a schedule.

I currently also burn a big noncat my shop and know that they have their place. Heating a home full time is better with a thermostatic cat stove in my experience.

The cats need to be replaced when they wear out but you can buy them in advance and they only take a minute to swap out with no tools except a coin to pry it out with if your fingers are weak. It's like changing your shoes, no big deal at all. I perform zero cat cleaning or maintenance until the cat dies. The wood savings with the more efficient cat stove easily pays for the catalysts by a factor of 2x. Even free wood from your property requires effort to process that is greatly reduced with the cat stove.

Really your question is sounding like the typical cat vs. noncat question which has been hashed out many times. You have chosen two excellent stoves the PE and the BK. If I had to switch to a noncat in my home it would be a PE alderlea. You must really like the looks of the ashford but the princess is a bit better in my opinion.

 

[Fargo]

I'm primarily looking for emergency backup heat and some supplemental heat in the coldest couple of months. Along with a nice fire to watch in the evening when its cold outside. So I'm not too worried about heating the entire 3400 sq ft. I do prefer the Ashford to the Princess. Since its primarily for backup and for enjoyment purposes, I'll take the trade off and minor loss of efficiency.

In the end you are correct that I'm really torn between the efficient and consistent heat of the cat versus the simpler to maintain non-cat. My biggest concern is probably knowing that I will slack off on getting my wood seasoned properly. I know both need good wood, but I think the non-cat would handle it better if I run poorly seasoned wood. Its not my intent, but I know how busy I get with other things and caring for wood won't always be priority.

I appreciate the reminder that I'll have to purchase and/or handle less wood with the cat. And having a spare cat on hand alleviates a lot of worry... at least for awhile. I have an inner prepper that I always have to watch for. I don't want to be caught in the blizzard of the decade without my wood stove because my cat failed. In the end, you are basically correct. Its a question of cat or no cat. Do I appease my inner prepper and go simple, reliable, and durable cat free? Or do I appease my modern man, who appreciates technology and modern comforts and being efficient with my time and energy.

 

[kborndale]

I'm primarily looking for emergency backup heat and some supplemental heat in the coldest couple of months. Along with a nice fire to watch in the evening when its cold outside.

I can't tell you hom many times I've heard that and then person fell in love with wood heat and went on to burn 24/7 every winter.

 

[Fargo]

So what happens to something like the T5 or T6 if it burns out overnight? If your just down to a bed of coals in the morning are you loosing ground? Will you get back drafts and cold air down the flue if your fire gets too cool overnight.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm primarily looking for emergency backup heat and some supplemental heat in the coldest couple of months. Along with a nice fire to watch in the evening when its cold outside.

Ooh, if that's honest and true and you have a really good/cheap central heating system then I would go with the PE. My BK is munching on a full load of maple right now keeping my house warm but there's no flames visible, it's just boringly effective at keeping the house warm day after day. Dogs are all sprawled out on the hearth basking.

Also, no rules against changing your mind in the future if you decide full time heating makes the upgrade to a cat stove a worthwhile trade.

The cat stoves are more complicated. You need to look at thermometers and flip levers at certain times or you could cause permanent stove damage. I have to teach a freaking class each time for my wife to run it. That same wife understands intuitively how to run a noncat with a single air control. For the primary, daily, operator it becomes second nature but honestly the cat stove is more complicated to run.

I have no idea how to delete that unrelated image below but hey, ND looks like a cheap place to live!

 

[Highbeam]

So what happens to something like the T5 or T6 if it burns out overnight? If your just down to a bed of coals in the morning are you loosing ground? Will you get back drafts and cold air down the flue if your fire gets too cool overnight.

It just gets cold but your furnace will kick on. Flues don't backdraft unless you have a problem. Would be the same for any stove.

I recommend you not consider the t5 at all. You need as big a stove as possible due to your huge area and the low BTU wood. Plus, life is just better with more room in the firebox.

SInce you mention spray foam and are seem like the kind of guy to have a well sealed home. You should be sure to feed your stove with an outside air connection. The BK has an excellent outside air connection with 100% of intake air coming through that connection. Not sure about the PE outside connection. The outside air connection greatly reduces the chances of backdrafting.

Will you have an ERV to maintain pressure in the home ?

 

[drumbum]

How does the install by work?

We are planning to move and was considering spending the money on a stove and liner now, for where ever we go. Would rather have a tangible if the money goes regardless (i.e. stove and liner co. instead of fed)

I don't recall the installed hoop the last round.

 

[EbS-P]

It just gets cold but your furnace will kick on. Flues don't backdraft unless you have a problem. Would be the same for any stove.

I recommend you not consider the t5 at all. You need as big a stove as possible due to your huge area and the low BTU wood. Plus, life is just better with more room in the firebox.

SInce you mention spray foam and are seem like the kind of guy to have a well sealed home. You should be sure to feed your stove with an outside air connection. The BK has an excellent outside air connection with 100% of intake air coming through that connection. Not sure about the PE outside connection. The outside air connection greatly reduces the chances of backdrafting.

Will you have an ERV to maintain pressure in the home ?

Isn’t this a basement install??

 

[Fargo]

Ooh, if that's honest and true and you have a really good/cheap central heating system then I would go with the PE. My BK is munching on a full load of maple right now keeping my house warm but there's no flames visible, it's just boringly effective at keeping the house warm day after day. Dogs are all sprawled out on the hearth basking.

Also, no rules against changing your mind in the future if you decide full time heating makes the upgrade to a cat stove a worthwhile trade.

The cat stoves are more complicated. You need to look at thermometers and flip levers at certain times or you could cause permanent stove damage. I have to teach a freaking class each time for my wife to run it. That same wife understands intuitively how to run a noncat with a single air control. For the primary, daily, operator it becomes second nature but honestly the cat stove is more complicated to run.

I have no idea how to delete that unrelated image below but hey, ND looks like a cheap place to live!

Well, I'm not intentionally lying. LOL I am primarily looking for emergency backup heat and some supplemental heat in the coldest couple of months. But, the BK sounds so tempting to run all winter. But the reality is, I don't harvest that much boxelder and at $200 a cord for oak (mixed birch, poplar, ash, maple is cheaper), buying enough wood to run all winter could cost me more than my electric heating system does. So really, its probably best to consider it as a backup and supplemental for the coldest 2 months. As you pointed out with your wife, the simplicity of the cat is really appealing.

SInce you mention spray foam and are seem like the kind of guy to have a well sealed home. You should be sure to feed your stove with an outside air connection. The BK has an excellent outside air connection with 100% of intake air coming through that connection. Not sure about the PE outside connection. The outside air connection greatly reduces the chances of backdrafting.

Will you have an ERV to maintain pressure in the home ?

My windows are all wood casement(crankout) 2 pane windows. So they are pretty good quality. My basement is 3 walls ICF and the 4th is a wood wall with walk out sliding patio door. Those vinyl sliding doors really don't seal that well. So I don't think my home is overly tight. But its not drafty either. Except for the room with the walk out which will hold the stove.

I'm not familiar with what your referring to with ERV. Is that an air exchanger or something? I don't have an air changer or any fresh air intake

 

[Fargo]

Isn’t this a basement install??

Yes, basement install. I'm on the side of a hill and I have a walkout patio door in the room with the wood stove.

 

[EbS-P]

Yes, basement install. I'm on the side of a hill and I have a walkout patio door in the room with the wood stove.

Makes fresh air intake as it must stay at or below intake of stove.

 

[Highbeam]

Isn’t this a basement install??

Daylight basement with floor level doors so not like a hole in the ground basement that has the more common draft issues. More like a two story home with dirt around most of the bottom floor. It's always funny what people call basements in other parts of the country. Or whether or not they consider that square footage as part of the home. In my area we call the described basement a daylight basement and they're awesome because three sides are earth sheltered so stay warm but you can load firewood in without having deal with stairs.

If the stove is on the non ICF wall you can just poke out the wall with an intake to the stove.

 

[BKVP]

You can run 4" F/A along baseboard to outside wall. The only challenge is to make certain snow doesn't cover the inlet.

BKVP

 

[begreen]

So what happens to something like the T5 or T6 if it burns out overnight? If your just down to a bed of coals in the morning are you loosing ground? Will you get back drafts and cold air down the flue if your fire gets too cool overnight.

Only if there is a problem in the house to start with. The same thing is a concern with any stove if the basement is a negative pressure zone.

@$200/cord of oak, stock up now. I am a bit envious.

 

[Woody Stover]

its nice to know the T5 and non-cat stoves can still have heat in the morning. But how much heat is still left? It sounds like just coals, so I assume the secondary burn is not happening.
So what happens to something like the T5 or T6 if it burns out overnight? If your just down to a bed of coals are you loosing ground? Will you get back drafts down the flue if your fire gets too cool overnight.

I appreciate knowing the wood you use. I keep looking at BTU charts to see how it compares to my boxelder.
Most of the BTU charts I've seen show Boxelder around 18 and Doug fir above 20. So it does seem to be a better wood.

A sizeable amount of time in consuming a load of wood is spent in the coaling phase, with no secondaries or cat burn. The stove is still doing plenty of heating, though, until the stove top falls below 300.
As long as the temp in the house is higher than it is outside, the stove is still drafting. Remember that when you brush your chimney, so that soot keeps moving up and out. I like it down in the mid-40s outside when I sweep.

I perform zero cat cleaning or maintenance until the cat dies. The wood savings with the more efficient cat stove easily pays for the catalysts by a factor of 2x. Even free wood from your property requires effort to process that is greatly reduced with the cat stove.

I pull the cat and gently brush the face, then gently blow it out. I'm not sure what would happen if I didn't do that, but that's what they tell you to do, so I figured there must be a benefit to it. From what I've seen, fly ash starts building up on the face of the cat, and assumed that eventually it would start to inhibit the flow through the cat.
As far as cat wood savings paying for replacing cats, twice over, and greatly reducing the amount of wood you use, that might be a stretch. I've seen several people here, who've burned both types of stoves, several of each, say that they didn't really notice a difference in the amount of wood burned, cat or non-cat. My SIL went from a cat to the T5 and I didn't see an increase in wood used.

 

[Woody Stover]

@$200/cord of oak, stock up now. I am a bit envious.

Sounds like a deal to me, as well. That was the price for mixed hardwoods here, years ago; I haven't checked lately.
Don't expect wood from a dealer to be dry, though. Here, I need two years split, stacked and top-covered, at least, for most woods, three years for Oak. Now, if your stacks get a lot of wind and you have low humidity most of the time, you may be able to get wood dry faster. Regardless, I'd start stacking some of that Boxelder ASAP; That should dry pretty quickly, I'd think.

 

[Burnin Since 1991]

But the reality is, I don't harvest that much boxelder and at $200 a cord for oak (mixed birch, poplar, ash, maple is cheaper), buying enough wood to run all winter could cost me more than my electric heating system does.

Wood here in the Boston area is $450 a cord seasoned mixed hardwood.