Buying a new boiler need help please

[wattdogg]

I think I am pulling the trigger before the EPA laws change this spring. I have looked at Central Boiler, Portage and Main as well as Timberwolf. I know Central Boiler is the top dog or so I hear but you also pay for the name. I would like to hear your pros and cons of each. I am going to be heating our water, our 30x30 garage and our 1800sq ft house with a full basement. I would also like to heat a pole barn in the future that has yet to be built.

 

[maple1]

I would also consider putting an indoor boiler in the pole barn, along with the whole winters wood, and add storage. The storage could be there too, or it could be in the garage or house basement. You would burn a lot less wood with less smoke & creosote.

Have you gotten prices yet? OWB sellers will be under big pressure to get rid of non-EPA units before they can't anymore, so also beware the sales pitches and hard sell.

 

[Gasifier]

A lot to consider there for sizing the boiler correctly. Sq.ft. of each building, temp you want to keep that Sq.ft. of each building at, insulation factor, etc. Have you done a heat calculation yet?

A boiler inside is nice. Either way, what Maple said is very good. Don't fall for buying a non-gasser at this point. All will put out heat and heat your buildings. But a gasser is much better. And a gasser with storage is where it is at!

Get your wood ready for next season. Dry wood is also where it is at! LOFL!

 

[salecker]

If Central Boiler is top dog...... we are in trouble

 

[pbvermont]

Interesting isn't it, the name and sub-name of this forum: "Hearth" and "The Boiler Room?" Tell me, how exactly does OWB, or OUTDOOR wood-boiler fit in either of these catagories? I get the "wood" and "boiler" commonality.
How about a special category for the outdoor "smoke dragons?" I'm not so interested in the direction the "Boiler Room" is drifting in.

 

[maple1]

I don't see anything wrong with it - in most cases, people who come in posting about OWBs come away with other possibilities/alternatives to consider they never even thought about or knew existed. I don't think I'd say there is widespread support for OWBs here.

 

[Tennman]

I was on my way to buying a OWB before I found this site. It was about this time of year I showed up here as a newby wanting to cut huge fuel bills and only knew what I saw sitting people's back yards. Education is what this site's about. Up to them if they take the advice. But if they do, like I did, will be very thankful.

 

[stee6043]

Interesting isn't it, the name and sub-name of this forum: "Hearth" and "The Boiler Room?" Tell me, how exactly does OWB, or OUTDOOR wood-boiler fit in either of these catagories? I get the "wood" and "boiler" commonality.
How about a special category for the outdoor "smoke dragons?" I'm not so interested in the direction the "Boiler Room" is drifting in.

I think we should be more concerned if the boiler room becomes so elitist we only talk about $15,000+ boilers and attempt to forget who brought the hot water heating market to the United States (hint, it wasn't the uber efficient downdrafters from Europe).

OWB's have their place. If I lived on a bunch of property I myself might have one. But I'd be sure to use it properly. Hate the irresponsible user, not the OWB.

To the OP, you will have a pretty decent load with your future plans. I recall there have been a handful of very happy Portage & Main users that have visited us here in the past. Do a quick search. Seems like a solid brand at least based on what I've heard. But I'm also aware of several Central Boiler's that have been in operation within my community for 15+ years. CB has learned a thing or two over the years and it's not just how to make more money on their boilers. I'd like to think they are building a decent unit for what it is. Dealer support is also widespread. And they are made in the USA...if that's worth anything to you.

 

[Mike Fromme]

Interesting isn't it, the name and sub-name of this forum: "Hearth" and "The Boiler Room?" Tell me, how exactly does OWB, or OUTDOOR wood-boiler fit in either of these catagories? I get the "wood" and "boiler" commonality.
How about a special category for the outdoor "smoke dragons?" I'm not so interested in the direction the "Boiler Room" is drifting in.

Drifting???

I think the boiler room has known for quite a while that OWB owners hate polar bears.

 

[Armaton]

Though I have an indoor downdraft gasification unit, I am not against the OWB's. I have family and friends that utilize them. Be aware that wood consumption with a normal OWB for that amount of space will be prohibitive! Last year my brother used a Global Hydronics GH1000 and went through a1/3 to 1/2 a face cord a day to heat his 1800 sf home with full basement and workshop. Workshop he only heated to 50 degrees while he was there working. He bought a smaller unit this fall, (he also wanted to take advantage of the new law), and his wood consumption is down more than a third, but not quite a half. All old technology OWB's are pretty much the same as to functionality. They are all just a firebox surrounded by a water jacket with a bit of insulation around it. The gasification OWB's are much pricier, and still require lower moisture content wood to perform properly. Or, you could opt, as maple1 pointed out, to install an indoor gasification unit with adequate storage in your projected pole building. Said unit should last at least 20 years, keeping in mind that there will be normal maintenance/consumables involved. My 2 cents, purchase the OWB you like, place it where you plan to build your pole building, bury appropriate underground line, and use it until you do build. Plan for a boiler room in your pole barn where the OWB sits, so you can re-utilize the underground pex. This way you can save some money now and still heat with wood! You will probably also be tired of cutting all the wood needed to feed the OWB by then, and be ready for a gasification unit.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I've always felt that if you burn wood to heat water, you're welcome here. If I can help someone use their OWB more efficiently, that's a good thing. If I can help someone decide to go with a more efficient, cleaner burning boiler, that's even better.

 

[Highbeam]

I've always felt that if you burn wood to heat water, you're welcome here. If I can help someone use their OWB more efficiently, that's a good thing. If I can help someone decide to go with a more efficient, cleaner burning boiler, that's even better.

I haven't even used a wood boiler but I have 1800' of pex in my pole barn slab that wants some hot water. All options are worth knowing about.

 

[salecker]

Hi Wattdogg
When i found this site i had no idea on hydronic heating other than i wanted a boiler in a separate building with storage,and use cast iron rads.I had the rads and some tanks to use for storage,and was going to buy a Wooddoctor and some bubble wrapped pipe to bury.
I started to read threads and my choice of boiler/water heater changed.There was a local Centralboiler dealer,but i had already ruled them out from horror stories i had read,and one guy i know who uses 60-80 cords a year to heat his buildings.He has some issues besides the water heater but gets free wood so he is ok with it.
Anyhow i spent a bunch of time reading,and ended up with a Econoburn,wasn't my first choice but a different dealer started carrying them,and i mention different because if the CB dealer carried them i would have kept on looking.Anyhow he was very helpful and had a fair price on it.With his help and this forum i have a working system that i built that works.And i know it will work for years to come and am not afraid to leave on holidays.
Econoburn's are built in USA,and have a good support system,and excellent customer relations.I live out in the middle of nowhere,there is no service guy to call,or supply store around the corner,so i know i can get on the phone with the Econoburn factory and they will get whatever parts i need on the way.
Anyhow hope this makes up for my short comment earlier.
Thomas

 

[huffdawg]

Funny a few the stories here are quite similar to mine. I too was looking into an outdoor boiler while coming upon this forum. I hadn't even heard of a gasser. I did a lot of lurking on here learning about them and was glad I did because had I bought an outdoor boiler and tried to use it in the native village I live in, I'm sure i'd have been buried in the sand facing the sun with my eyelids cut off.

 

[duramaxman05]

I have a portage and main bl2840 and i love it. Its a well built unit and the attention to detail is awesome. This is my first year with it. I have been averaging a 8ft pick up bed load of wooda month. Thats tossed in, not stacked.

 

[wattdogg]

Thanks for the input, I have talked to a bunch of people who have a central boiler and have hear nothing but positive things. My neighbor has one and his brother even sells them & I didn't include them in the people who have had positive experiences. After speaking with the gentleman from Timberwolf there is an EPA rule already in use that prohibits him from selling to Indiana. I am concerned with the price wit he portage and main as well. I agree with putting the boiler in a building as we don't have much wind block I know they are efficient but this would help. I am thinking of putting up a one sided open building facing east with the boiler on one end and the wood on the other. Making it big enough to hold a winters worth of wood. I am leaning toward the Central boiler 6048 anyone have experience with that model?

 

[salecker]

All i can say is keep reading before you spend your money.
From my reading on here over the years,i have seen more threads on bad experiences with the Central Boiler's products and their customer service than any others.
There is a recent thread about the repairs a member has done to his CB because he could not get the Warranty work he should,and i believe it's a fairly young CB.
Even their name is misinformation.Boilers are a pressurized unit.I haven't seen any water heaters that CB builds that are pressurized.
Whatever you buy,this site will be here to help with your problems.Good Luck with your decision.
Thomas

 

[JP11]

OWBs. many are expensive, and use a LOT more wood than a gasser.
Outdoor boiler will mean that you have CRITICAL issues with pipe size, insulation and integration to your home system.

These are major pitfalls. Any seller telling you that they can burn anything less than good, dry wood is selling you a line! Water doesn't burn. Can it burn crappy wood, yes. Can it burn it well?? hell no.

You are looking at the EPA as 'gee, I need to squeak in under this rule change' I'm not a big govt fan at all. But there's a REASON these things have a bad rap and have been attacked by the govt, many suburbs and the like. Some of it is bad operator habits.. but some of it is inherent to the design.

My advice would be to slow down, read a whole bunch! regardless of your future wood burning appliance.. start getting cut, split, and stacked wood put up now. Wet wood doesn't burn well, and unspilt wood doesn't dry or 'season'

JP

 

[Deering]

I agree with putting the boiler in a building as we don't have much wind block I know they are efficient but this would help.

Heat losses due to external airflow are certainly a consideration, but pale in comparison to the poor combustion efficiency you'll experience. Typical OWB's will consume much more wood for the same amount of heat than higher efficiency models. If you have lots of free wood, and really enjoy doing lots of cutting, hauling, splitting, stacking, and frequent feeding, then a CB might be the right choice for you. Oh, and as others have mentioned above, because these units combust so poorly, they generate huge amounts of smoke, so hopefully your family and neighbors don't live downwind.

If wood costs you real money and/or time, you might want to crunch the numbers. A more efficient unit could pay for the extra expense pretty quickly. And before you accept anyone's efficiency claims, ask to see the results of an independent testing lab to authenticate them. Some boiler salesmen claim their units are 110% efficient...and people believe them!

Any boiler will perform better when connected to thermal storage - the more the better.

 

[maple1]

Also, putting it in an open building might reduce some wind-induced loss, but there will still be losses to the outdoors.

If you did go ahead - have you assessed how much wood you would expect to burn per year, and how much you think you want to or can process/get ready in a year?

 

[wattdogg]

Thanks I already have wood cut, about 25 ricks that was cut between July and October I have an endless supply and live in the county 3/4 of a mile from anyone. My sons and I like being outside, last week for example it was 10 degrees and we cut 5 truck loads on Saturday so the work & weather doesn't bother me.