Charnwood Skye 700 - automatic wood burner

[EatenByLimestone]

I’m trying hard to word my thoughts correctly. I tried many times to type it out but kept thinking it’d come off as trolling, which wasn’t my intention.

I see this stove appealing to those who want the convenience of a pellet stove but want to burn lower quality fuel.

The problem I see is they aren’t going to understand that the fuel they bought as seasoned likely isn’t high enough quality for something like this.

Wood burning cordwood is an art based off math. There are too many variables in it to successfully burn kiln dried pine in 1 load and a load of hickory that was in tree form last week in the next load. Over time, we’ve all figured out how to deal with that arm load of hickory. I’m not sure a programmer can write a program for that. Flame health is a judgement call based off experience. A flame that is satisfactory on one load may not be on the next.

One of the reasons why dry wood is so important is it removes a huge variable from the equation and makes it easier to learn to deal with the other variables. Throw wet wood into it and it’ll give you an error code… and limp the stove through the load?

 

[stoveliker]

I’m trying hard to word my thoughts correctly. I tried many times to type it out but kept thinking it’d come off as trolling, which wasn’t my intention.

I see this stove appealing to those who want the convenience of a pellet stove but want to burn lower quality fuel.

The problem I see is they aren’t going to understand that the fuel they bought as seasoned likely isn’t high enough quality for something like this.

Wood burning cordwood is an art based off math. There are too many variables in it to successfully burn kiln dried pine in 1 load and a load of hickory that was in tree form last week in the next load. Over time, we’ve all figured out how to deal with that arm load of hickory. I’m not sure a programmer can write a program for that. Flame health is a judgement call based off experience. A flame that is satisfactory on one load may not be on the next.

One of the reasons why dry wood is so important is it removes a huge variable from the equation and makes it easier to learn to deal with the other variables. Throw wet wood into it and it’ll give you an error code… and limp the stove through the load?

This all depends on *what* they are actually sensing. Exhaust gases? (like your ICE management!)

Moreover, these are marketed in Europe - where there are actually very strict guidelines (I know in the UK and The Netherlands) about wood that one is allowed to burn (and "brother" is "bigger there") and that one is allowed to sell. My brother in law has a stove, buys wood, and I can tell you it's below 18% (properly measured). The law says it has to be below 20%. ANd he randomly buys from different suppliers.

In situations like that this is much less of an issue.
And again depending on the range of control the "brain" of the stove can exert on the fire, and based on what inputs.

 

[begreen]

I’m trying hard to word my thoughts correctly. I tried many times to type it out but kept thinking it’d come off as trolling, which wasn’t my intention.

I see this stove appealing to those who want the convenience of a pellet stove but want to burn lower quality fuel.

The marketing info and video make it clear that dry wood is a priority. No stove performs optimally with poorly seasoned wood. It's unlikely that there would be good secondary combustion in this stove if the firebox doesn't get hot enough. That said, there always will be someone that ignores directions.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Yeah, it doesn’t even have to be on purpose. The more developed (advanced?) the stove is, the stricter the tolerances are for proper operation.

 

[begreen]

Gimme fire in cave, ugga ugga.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The original masonry heater!

 

[qwee]

I wonder exactly how this stove 'thinks' about the burning fire. I see the small holes of different sizes at the top of the firebox in the back. Fire consumes oxygen, so as the oxygen decreases the sensor measures this? How do pellet stoves do this? Or fire creates CO2 maybe it measures CO2, also. If the fire is big and burning good a little pump kicks on and pushes more air into the fire through those back holes?

Those little varying sized holes would be better if they were on all 4 sides (and the top?). I wonder where the chemical rxn in the fire is the highest - 3-6" above the wood? I wonder if this tech could be integrated into a hybrid stove and what % increase in efficiency could be had? 5%? This is probably part of the future of NA wood stoves. 5 year NA lag behind Euro tech? I bet there is a German Stove that resembles this stove (probably better, though).

 

[weee123]

It probably measures based off heat. I think that’s what pellet stoves do.

 

[EbS-P]

I have the same concern. The stove does have a battery backup for power outages though I don't know how long that is good for.

I’m sure it has some power off position that been tested as safe. But anyone relying on this for emergency heat probably should get something like and Ecoflow delta 2 or 3.

 

[begreen]

It looks like the backup is 9v. A battery bank of sufficient size could handle it. Or put the stove on a decent sized UPS. The power draw appears to be low.

 

[qwee]

It says patented microprocessor technology. It does not have anything to do with oxygen levels. Maybe weee is right, it bases airflow on temperature? So the stove starts out cold, and the processor says 'more air' and the internal fan kicks on. The stove hits a certain temp and the fan slows down or goes off. This seems too simple. I was hoping for something more complex. Ya, it would increase efficiency a little bit.

 

[stoveliker]

I'm not sure the combustion air is fanned in versus sucked in by natural draft?

Microprocessor merely processes the data from sensors and gives output signals to actuators. While that may be temperature, controlling only in that is not likely to give good (complete) combustion I think. I suspect there is also different inputs in their control module.

Edit: I do think there is a fan, given how quick the flames go up when the setting is increased (on the app).

 

[EatenByLimestone]

So the outdoor wood burner was brought inside! Sweet!

 

[Highbeam]

The wood furnace and wood boiler guys have automated wood burning already.

Some designs use an oxygen sensor, some use temperature sensors at different places to trigger opening and closing of NA or forced air inlets for the fire. A stove could easily apply the same proven principles and wood quality is not especially important, no more than usual.

I’ve embraced and enjoyed thermostatic air control on my woodstove. Seems like a logical step for all stoves.

 

[begreen]

There are a flame, firebox temperature, door, and room temp sensors as far as I can tell. I don't see any air supply fans in the system. One small but nice feature is a draft testing port from which the plug can be removed for testing.

 

[qwee]

I found this - I'm just trying to learn about the electronics/sensor tech of wood burning - it is confusing. An electronic combustion control system measures the temperature in the combustion chamber, regulates the air supply fully automatically, and ensures optimal combustion and heat retention at all times. Note, this can be translated from German to English. https://www.ofen-schraps.de/kamin-und-kachelofenbau/elektronische-abbrandsteuerung/

By using a combustion control/regulation system for your stove, you can achieve firewood savings of up to 30%. It costs $700 US dollars + vat(?).

The fire on the left has the electronic combustion control system. I don't think this can be translated to English. But I get the idea - 28 extra minutes of burn time. I wonder if this could be made into a wood stove? Maybe something similar in the Skye E700?

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[qwee]

What is the max sensors can do? Sensors in the firebox measuring temp and O2 levels. Sensors in the flue measuring gasses, temps, and particulates. Sensors in the living space measuring temperature. And some sort of air pump to push air into the firebox on command. And all of these sensors tied together - being told what and when to adjust.

This German unit claims to do this. 30% increase. I guess even a masonry heater/kachelofen can be optimized to burn more efficiently. So an average efficiency stove with this tech hooked to it will outburn the most efficient stoves (like Blaze Kings) that are hand controlled. Some North American stove builders companies need to bring this tech to life especially since it is already out there.

 

[BKVP]

Habt keine angst mein Freund. Die US amerikanischen Hersteller sind bei diesem konzept bereits weit voraus.

Yes, my mother was from Wiesbaden and taught me some German!

BKVP

 

[begreen]

Habt keine angst mein Freund. Die US amerikanischen Hersteller sind bei diesem konzept bereits weit voraus.

Ist dies derzeit auf dem Markt erhältlich? Wird es als eigenständiges Produkt verkauft?

My Google taught me nothing, but translates for me.

 

[qwee]

Good. Give us a recap of what she is saying in that side-by-side burning video - in English, please.

 

[BKVP]

Ist dies derzeit auf dem Markt erhältlich? Wird es als eigenständiges Produkt verkauft?

My Google taught me nothing, but translates for me.

Within the industry, we have quarterly meetings, sometimes virtually, other times in person. The bright young folks in the engineering side of this great industry have some brilliant new ideas. What prohibits them from coming to market is the lack of flexibility in the test methods. This is when we use ATM's (Not for cash) but Alternative Test Methods. But these too have to be approved which is not a piece of cake. You've been to Expo, well in March many new concepts will be on display.

BKVP

 

[BKVP]

Good. Give us a recap of what she is saying in that side-by-side burning video - in English, please.

Tron is fluent, I am not....

BKVP