clearance confusion

[nu2wood]

Hello all,
I have a hearth wall between two doorways. The doorways have wood trim. The trim is not directly behind the stove, but offset slightly, see pic. Would I use corner clearances for this measurement? I am confused because I see the corner clearances in the manual only listed for a corner install. It seems like I would use side clearances? I am thinking that either way I will need a side heatshield on both sides.

 

[Poindexter]

Is the wall between the two doorways flat? Same question a different way, are the two doorways in the same wall, just tiled behind the stove between the two doorframes?

I suspect you will need to re-trim those two openings with something not flammable and maybe take the actual doors off during heating season.

From the pic I think you have a flat wall behind the stove and -most likely- you will need non flamable door trim and non flammable doors.

 

[begreen]

What is the diagonal distance from the rear corner of the stove to the wood trim?

 

[kennyp2339]

I vote rear clearance only, if the stove was against a whole back wall as long as the minimum clearance is met there would be no issue, so just because theres a door way on either side, nothing changes.

 

[nu2wood]

Is the wall between the two doorways flat? Same question a different way, are the two doorways in the same wall, just tiled behind the stove between the two doorframes?

I suspect you will need to re-trim those two openings with something not flammable and maybe take the actual doors off during heating season.

From the pic I think you have a flat wall behind the stove and -most likely- you will need non flamable door trim and non flammable doors.

Same wall. I thought about removing wood trim like you suggested and replacing with tile but I would rather not if I don't have to.


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[Poindexter]

I vote rear clearance only, if the stove was against a whole back wall as long as the minimum clearance is met there would be no issue, so just because theres a door way on either side, nothing changes.

On the one hand it sounds good, but my caution flags are at full alert. The manual for my stove, different from the OPs make/model has both wall clearances and clearance to combustibles.

If i tried to put my stove on that hearth i would likely make the wall clearance ok, but the wood trim on those door openings would not meet the clearance to combustibles in my manual.

@begreen or @bholler ?

 

[nu2wood]

What is the diagonal distance from the rear corner of the stove to the wood trim?

I'm not home right now so I can't measure but I think I remember it was either 9 or 13 inches. Definitely not the 26 inch corner clearance jotul was calling for. I'm thinking rear and side heat shield at minimum will be necessary and then careful monitoring of the trim temp to touch.

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[kennyp2339]

Heat isn't trapped in a corner that's why I'm saying rear clearance only, what I would do to be extra sure is get the manual out, read the rear clearance requirement and then the side requirements, triangulate from there, I'm willing to bet that the trim is further away than the corner clearance requirement if its done that way.

 

[nu2wood]

Heat isn't trapped in a corner that's why I'm saying rear clearance only, what I would do to be extra sure is get the manual out, read the rear clearance requirement and then the side requirements, triangulate from there, I'm willing to bet that the trim is further away than the corner clearance requirement if its done that way.

Ok, I'm no rocket scientist. You lost me. By triangulate you mean like Pythagorean type calculations???

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[kennyp2339]

Ok, I'm no rocket scientist. You lost me. By triangulate you mean like Pythagorean type calculations???

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No, just with your approved clearances take the measure off the side of the stove, put a piece of tape on the ground, then measure strait back for your rear clearance, I'm willing to bet that the wood trim is outside of that tape mark.

 

[nu2wood]

Is the wall between the two doorways flat? Same question a different way, are the two doorways in the same wall, just tiled behind the stove between the two doorframes?

I suspect you will need to re-trim those two openings with something not flammable and maybe take the actual doors off during heating season.

From the pic I think you have a flat wall behind the stove and -most likely- you will need non flamable door trim and non flammable doors.

Is the wall between the two doorways flat? Same question a different way, are the two doorways in the same wall, just tiled behind the stove between the two doorframes?

I suspect you will need to re-trim those two openings with something not flammable and maybe take the actual doors off during heating season.

From the pic I think you have a flat wall behind the stove and -most likely- you will need non flamable door trim and non flammable doors.

Is the wall between the two doorways flat? Same question a different way, are the two doorways in the same wall, just tiled behind the stove between the two doorframes?

I suspect you will need to re-trim those two openings with something not flammable and maybe take the actual doors off during heating season.

From the pic I think you have a flat wall behind the stove and -most likely- you will need non flamable door trim and non flammable doors.

What is the diagonal distance from the rear corner of the stove to the wood trim?

12.5 inches from corner of stove to trim in a bee line diagonal.

 

[nu2wood]

No, just with your approved clearances take the measure off the side of the stove, put a piece of tape on the ground, then measure strait back for your rear clearance, I'm willing to bet that the wood trim is outside of that tape mark.

Ok. Did that and trim falls just at the minimum clearance but without the heatshield. And that is a heat shielded clearance so when I add that shield my trim will then be inside that zone by whatever additional width that the shield adds. I am assuming the heat shielded clearance measurements are taken from the outside of the shield and not the stove, right?

 

[kennyp2339]

Ok. Did that and trim falls just at the minimum clearance but without the heatshield. And that is a heat shielded clearance so when I add that shield my trim will then be inside that zone by whatever additional width that the shield adds. I am assuming the heat shielded clearance measurements are taken from the outside of the shield and not the stove, right?

I believe its from the stove, is this just a rear heat shield or both the rear and sides? if this includes the sides I will prob be better to remove the trim and replace it with something that's not combustible because with the side shields your taking away from the radiant properties of the stove and turning it into a convective heater (nothing is wrong with that, but you may get less heat out of the unit with no blower) Now that's a preference call by you, the user. Also how close out of the clearance parameters was the trim to the stove?

 

[nu2wood]

I believe its from the stove, is this just a rear heat shield or both the rear and sides? if this includes the sides I will prob be better to remove the trim and replace it with something that's not combustible because with the side shields your taking away from the radiant properties of the stove and turning it into a convective heater (nothing is wrong with that, but you may get less heat out of the unit with no blower) Now that's a preference call by you, the user. Also how close out of the clearance parameters was the trim to the stove?

If I "triangulate" like you suggested, the stove would have to be moved forward about 3 inches to make clearance without heatshields.

I believe its from the stove, is this just a rear heat shield or both the rear and sides? if this includes the sides I will prob be better to remove the trim and replace it with something that's not combustible because with the side shields your taking away from the radiant properties of the stove and turning it into a convective heater (nothing is wrong with that, but you may get less heat out of the unit with no blower) Now that's a preference call by you, the user. Also how close out of the clearance parameters was the trim to the stove?

This is an unconventional situation since the trim is to the side and back, so if I consider the side clearance which is 29 inches, I am way too close without heatshields (12 inches). If I triangulate I am still way too close because the stove is only 4 inches to the wall from the rear. Heatshields I think are the only way to go.
Either way, i plan to fire it up really hot ( I am still breaking it in now) and monitor the situation back there to see how hot it really gets. Then I will decide on a course of action.
Thanks for all your input!

 

[Squisher]

I might be seeing the pic wrong. But IMO corner clearances are meant for when there's a corner installation. To me it looks like too like rear clearance is the measurement here. I've been told corner clearances only apply when there is a corner and the stove is installed at a 45 in it. I'm not seeing that here. Also been taught that you don't triangulate your own corner clearance if none is listed. You default to the greater of the two clearances given(side or rear).

Pictures are hard to tell sometimes but why are side clearances being considered? I see no sidewall in the picture?

 

[Squisher]

To me it looks like a rear wall with a piece of trim on it. That doesn't make it a sidewall.

 

[nu2wood]

To me it looks like a rear wall with a piece of trim on it. That doesn't make it a sidewall.

Squisher I have to agree. Corner clearances are always diagrammed with the stove at a 45 to a corner. Also, a side wall clearance takes into account air flow. In my situation the air flow to the side of the stove is much more than would be if there was a wall 12 inches from the side of the stove. The more I think and study the Jotul manual clearances, I might be best off using their Mantel and Surrounding Trim clearances. If I am reading it right, the unshielded clearance is 15 inches to the one inch deep side trim, while the shielded is 9. I am at 12 inches.

 

[begreen]

This is an outlier case. It appears to be right on the cusp, but there are no published tests for exactly this situation.

Question: is there 32" or more between the wood trim strips? If so I would not add shielding unless empirical testing showed it to be warranted. The stove is going to be most radiant directly behind. If this was the original design, F118 or F602 with no rear burn plate inside the firebox, the stove would be quite radiant to the rear. But in the F118CB there is a rear fierbrick which definitely reduces rear heat radiation. In the manual, the minimum wall shield width for this stove is 32". If your back wall is > 32" between the wood strips, then it should be fine.

However, if you have an IR thermometer you can monitor the wood temps during a very hot burn with a 750F stovetop. If the wood temp is below 160F then it is safe. That said, what may be most important here is your peace of mind. A rear shield can be added if you are concerned about protection. I don't think side shields are warranted in either case.

 

[nu2wood]

This is an outlier case. It appears to be right on the cusp, but there are no published tests for exactly this situation.

Question: is there 32" or more between the wood trim strips? If so I would not add shielding unless empirical testing showed it to be warranted. The stove is going to be most radiant directly behind. If this was the original design, F118 or F602 with no rear burn plate inside the firebox, the stove would be quite radiant to the rear. But in the F118CB there is a rear fierbrick which definitely reduces rear heat radiation. In the manual, the minimum wall shield width for this stove is 32". If your back wall is > 32" between the wood strips, then it should be fine.

However, if you have an IR thermometer you can monitor the wood temps during a very hot burn with a 750F stovetop. If the wood temp is below 160F then it is safe. That said, what may be most important here is your peace of mind. A rear shield can be added if you are concerned about protection. I don't think side shields are warranted in either case.

Thanks for the input begreen. The measurement from trim to trim is 37 inches, so it is well above the minimum of 32.
Are the cheap IR thermometers reliable? Obviously you get what you pay for but since I wont be using it often, I wonder if cheap is sufficient.

 

[begreen]

I think you are probably fine. If you can place your hand on the trim and keep it there while the fire has been burning strongly for hours then it is quite safe.

The cheap IR thermometers from Harbor Freight seems to be ok according to most reports. Cheaper units tend to not read as high up on the temperature scale as some of the better units, but for a test like this it would be fine. Do the hand test first. Further testing may not be necessary.