Considering a Woodsman Stove

[sweetenfamily]

We currently have a vermont castings dutchwest small model with a catalytic, I believe it's a 2000 model. It doesn't heat the whole house and we keep burning up catalytic converters. In past we've had a fisher grandma, and my husband grew up with an earthstove. So we are hoping to sell it and upgrade to something without the converter.

I found a "jotul style" woodsman stove for $90 that needs a few repairs. At first I thought that was a steal.... but doing some research here.... maybe not? Any opinions? If it buys us another 1-2 years until we have to put out more $$$ for a nicer clean burn stove then we can save it for a hunting cabin or something, maybe it will be worth it?

 

[Woody Stover]

I've got a DW 2460, which is what you've got I think. The metal tag on the back will have the model number. The main ways that the cats are wrecked are a) Burning wet wood, thereby subjecting the cat to thermal shock, and b) Flame impingement on the face of the cat, caused by burning a roaring fire with the bypass closed, which sucks flame through the baffle and into the face of the cat. How big a house are you trying to heat? One floor? Open layout? Regardless of what stove you have, if your wood hasn't been split and stacked for a couple years (especially Oak,) you won't get as much heat out of the stove because some is used to cook the excess water out of the wood. You will also have much more creosote in your chimney, a dangerous situation which will require monitoring the chimney and cleaning as necessary, maybe several times a season. Is the stove venting into a masonry fireplace or does it have a dedicated class A chimney that goes through the roof?

 

[sweetenfamily]

Yes it's a 2460. We haven't had much choice in wood the last few years, thought we were ready last year. This year should be different as the woodshed is nearly full already. But it's hard to say if we have another winter like last year. We're tired of fighting this stove and replacing the combuster. Not sure on house sq foot, but I do know it's more than the stove is rated for, unopen floor plan. We do have a dedicated chimney.

Ready to try something else.

 

[begreen]

I found a "jotul style" woodsman stove for $90 that needs a few repairs. At first I thought that was a steal.... but doing some research here.... maybe not? Any opinions? If it buys us another 1-2 years until we have to put out more $$$ for a nicer clean burn stove then we can save it for a hunting cabin or something, maybe it will be worth it?

Welcome. You'll want to be careful. There are a lot of Jotul imitators back in the early 80s. Some are decent and some are junk. We need to know more about the stove before commenting on suitability. Is it this stove? https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/just-sold-my-atlanta-stove-works-woodsman-stove.106329/ If so, NickMystic may be able to tell you more about it. What does it need for "fixing"?

Heating a house with a closed off floor plan can be challenging. One trick that works for more even heat in the house is to put a table or box fan at the far end of an adjacent room or hallway, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the area where the fan is after about 30 minutes running.

 

[sweetenfamily]

(broken link removed to http://images.craigslist.org/00101_fub5Owx9VpJ_600x450.jpg) Hopefully this works.

We are working on putting a fan that will pull air from the woodstove room into the furnace vents. But if we want to avoid buying propane then we still need a bigger stove.

 

[begreen]

I would skip the furnace vent idea. It usually fails due to too much heatloss in the ductwork. I'd also pass on the stove. The door hinge is broken off. Is the Dutchwest still functional? How many years has your wood supply been seasoning before burning?

 

[begreen]

I'm not sure if this is close by, but this is a much better option:
(broken link removed to http://southbend.craigslist.org/for/4589868563.html)

 

[sweetenfamily]

That is close. I'm also looking at this one: (broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/261565459223?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

 

[BCC_Burner]

If you're going to spend $500-700 on a stove anyway, you might as well buy a new one. You'll end up with a cleaner burning unit that isn't going to come with an unknown history. Everyone will tell you they take great care of their things, but the reality is often very different. I would hesitate to buy anything used from a family member, let alone a stranger.

 

[jeff_t]

Yes it's a 2460. We haven't had much choice in wood the last few years, thought we were ready last year. This year should be different as the woodshed is nearly full already. But it's hard to say if we have another winter like last year. We're tired of fighting this stove and replacing the combuster. Not sure on house sq foot, but I do know it's more than the stove is rated for, unopen floor plan. We do have a dedicated chimney.

Ready to try something else.

If you're still filling your wood shed with freshly cut/split wood, you'll be disappointed with any modern stove that you buy.

 

[begreen]

That is close. I'm also looking at this one: (broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/261565459223?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

I saw that one on craigslist too. Had to laugh. Here's a taken apart stove that you have to assemble with a questionable outcome.
(broken link removed to http://swmi.craigslist.org/hsh/4623695737.html)

If you are going to spend that amount of money get an Englander 30NC and be done.

I'm not sure but perhaps the reason you are going through catalysts is wet wood? Normally they would last 4-6 years. How long are you getting out of one?

 

[Woody Stover]

(broken link removed to http://images.craigslist.org/00101_fub5Owx9VpJ_600x450.jpg) Hopefully this works.

I'd pass on the stove. The door hinge is broken off.....I'm not sure if this is close by, but this is a much better option:
(broken link removed to http://southbend.craigslist.org/for/4589868563.html)

(broken link removed to http://southbend.craigslist.org/for/4589868563.html)

if we want to avoid buying propane then we still need a bigger stove.

What part of IN do you live in? If the insulation and leak-sealing in your home is sub-par, doing some easy work there can pay huge dividends, and allow you to heat with a smaller (cheaper) stove. I gained several degrees in room temp last year by sealing some big air leaks I had, putting plastic film on an old window, new door weatherstrip, etc. http://www.homedepot.com/p/MD-Build...ft-Door-Jamb-Weatherstrip-Set-01156/100187929

 

[Woody Stover]

Here's the gasket kit for the Dw. If you are handy, this job isn't too hard. I'd be glad to offer any advice I can if you PM me. (broken link removed)

 

[sweetenfamily]

We've done gaskets once and the converter twice in the 5 years we've been burning the dw. We burn a lot of ash, hardly any oak. A lot of it is dead in our woods, if not it's been seasoned as long as possible. Put in a big pile, then split & stacked in a small open garage when dry. If my husband wasn't so busy farming I would get him on here. He knows better than I do what we've burned.

We aren't opposed to new just trying to save $$. We really like the look of the jotul 118 cb. Need to call around to find out retail.

 

[begreen]

I would also look at the Jotul F500. It's a more reliable stove unless they have changed the secondary rack design on the 118CB.

 

[Grisu]

We've done gaskets once and the converter twice in the 5 years we've been burning the dw. We burn a lot of ash, hardly any oak. A lot of it is dead in our woods, if not it's been seasoned as long as possible. Put in a big pile, then split & stacked in a small open garage when dry. If my husband wasn't so busy farming I would get him on here. He knows better than I do what we've burned.

Firewood dries AFTER it has been split and stacked preferably in an open spot where it gets lots of sun and wind. Piling up logs even from dead trees will do little to get the moisture out. You are wasting a lot of heat when your stove needs to boil off the water first. That will also increase the risk of creosote buildup which may lead to a chimney fire. You may have been lucky as ash has a low moisture content when freshly cut but it should still be split and stacked one year before burning.

You can get a new EPA-approved stove that will heat your home well for less than $1000. The Englander 30NC has already be mentioned; currently $899 at HomeDepot. A very capable heater with lots of satisfied owners here and good customer service directly from the manufacturer. Only drawback is the hearth requirement of 1.5 in r-value. Englander also just came out with the slightly smaller Madison stove which only needs ember protection in its hearth. Currently available from Sunderlands and probably soon also from other places. Then there is the Pacific Energy True North or the Timberwolf stoves: http://www.timberwolffireplaces.com/products/
They may all lack a bit in outside appeal but certainly can heat your home and you get them new with warranty.

 

[Woody Stover]

I would also look at the Jotul F500. It's a more reliable stove unless they have changed the secondary rack design on the 118CB.

The 118CB appears to put out less heat than the 2460, at least according to the EPA test figures, which I know must be taken with a grain of salt. Jotul claims it will heat 2000 sq.ft. Majestic claims 1400 sq.ft. for the 2460. Mfgr. claims are to be taken with a grain of salt as well. (broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/oecaerth/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf)

We've done gaskets once and the converter twice in the 5 years we've been burning the dw. We burn a lot of ash, hardly any oak. A lot of it is dead in our woods, if not it's been seasoned as long as possible. Put in a big pile, then split & stacked in a small open garage when dry. If my husband wasn't so busy farming I would get him on here. He knows better than I do what we've burned.
We aren't opposed to new just trying to save $$. We really like the look of the jotul 118 cb. Need to call around to find out retail.

Just looked at thread on here about the 118CB...was apparently $1500 several years ago. From what you've said, I agree with Grisu; Wet wood is most likely your problem with the Dw, and will be with any stove. The best way to tell for sure is to get a cheap moisture meter at Harbor Freight, Lowe's etc, re-split a bunch of splits you have stacked, and test on the fresh surface. You will then know about your wood, without a doubt. Anything at 20% or below will burn OK. I like mine below 18%. As I mentioned, you can probably find small, dead trees with the bark gone that may be ready to burn well right now; Mulberry, Sassafras, Red Elm, maybe Dogwood, down Black Locust, etc. May be hard to do, with farm chores to attend to. You seem to want to go to a non-cat but at the same time you want to save money. That's why I've continued to blather on about the Dw, it would be the cheapest way to go (provided it's big enough to do the job, and your fuel is dry.) What did your combustors look like when they were shot? Cracked and crumbled? Scooped out spots? Did you replace the cat probe thermometer as well? On the 2460, I run in bypass until the cat probe gets to around 500, then close the bypass. If the cat is working, the probe should then climb up to about 1200. You can also look up through the glass and baffle, and see the cat glowing early in the burn. When I reload, I will also run in bypass to establish the new load. If you toss wet wood in and close the bypass immediately, they say that can thermally shock the cat and result in damage. Those cats should be lasting five or six years. If you are going to spring for a new stove, maybe a non-cat will do a little better with wood that isn't dry enough, I don't know. begreen and Grisu are two of the most knowledgeable members here, and have made some good stove suggestions. More details on the size and layout of the home, and stove placement, will help narrow down the choices.

 

[sweetenfamily]

You've given us a lot of food for thought..... Keep it coming. . My husband is wood & stove guy, I do the research. Lol sometimes not so good. I'll make sure he reads this. I'm ready to go buy a moisture probe, we do it when making hay makes sense for the firewood as well.

Our stove is in an addition in an old but pretty well insulated 1850s farm house. The main part of the house is opposite end of the addition from the stove. That is why we were thinking of cutting a hole above a door to the main house and putting a fan there to pull the air into the old section.

Just did so some rough estimates our home is over 2500 sq ft, that doesn't count the attached garage or basement....doesn't seem that big we have a lot of empty space only 3 bedroom.

 

[Woody Stover]

You've given us a lot of food for thought..... Keep it coming. . My husband is wood & stove guy, I do the research. Lol sometimes not so good. I'll make sure he reads this. I'm ready to go buy a moisture probe, we do it when making hay makes sense for the firewood as well.
Our stove is in an addition in an old but pretty well insulated 1850s farm house. The main part of the house is opposite end of the addition from the stove. That is why we were thinking of cutting a hole above a door to the main house and putting a fan there to pull the air into the old section.

Like begreen said, moving cool air along the floor toward the stove room displaces the lighter warm air out. If you've got high ceilings, cutting some vents in transoms above doors will definitely help keep the warm air moving, which you need when trying to heat from one end of the house.

Just did so some rough estimates our home is over 2500 sq ft, that doesn't count the attached garage or basement....doesn't seem that big we have a lot of empty space only 3 bedroom.

That's a pretty big area to heat, and more of a challenge from one end of the house. You're right, you probably need a bigger stove than the Dw or small Jotul.

 

[mellow]

Can you post some pictures of your current install?

 

[sweetenfamily]

(broken image removed)

Hopefully these work. This part of the house is single story and the pipe goes straight out.

 

[begreen]

That is handsome hearth. It looks like this might have originally been an 8" flue, is that right? If so, a Blaze King King stove is worth considering. It will provide over a days worth burntime in milder weather and very steady heat throughout the colder weather.

 

[Woody Stover]

That is handsome hearth. It looks like this might have originally been an 8" flue, is that right? If so, a Blaze King King stove is worth considering. It will provide over a days worth burntime in milder weather and very steady heat throughout the colder weather.

This here is Buck 91 country, podner! Actually, you can get BKs here too. They may still want to go non-cat, but if they have dry wood, either would work. I'm a cat guy because I get my own wood (and for the low-burn capability.) Less wood, less work. But back to them...they don't want to spend any more than they have to. The big cats don't come cheap. The hybrid Woodstock Ideal is a little more affordable...

 

[Woody Stover]

looks like this might have originally been an 8" flue, is that right?

I'm assuming they have a tall stack in an old farmhouse. They should be able to get away with a 6" outlet stove and 8" chimney if the stack is tall enough, correct?

 

[sweetenfamily]

Thank you my husband & his dad designed the hearth. Yes the 8" was for the old fisher we had, depending on the stove we get we've discussed re-doing it to all be the same.