Considering Kedel and Biowin. Pros & cons?

[hopkintonnewhampshire]

Hi, I have been researching pellet boilers for my house in central New Hampshire, and settled on Kedel or Biowin based on my research as well as the many positive reviews of each on this site. I'm looking for a fully automatic boiler with at least a 3 ton hopper (necessary to qualify for the 30% rebate here in New Hampshire).

I was wondering if anyone had advice or opinions on the pros and cons of each. Thanks very much for your help! And also, a huge thanks to everyone who has posted pictures of their installations as well as incredibly detailed accounts...they are really helpful.

 

[velvetfoot]

If they are roughly comparable, it'd be a nice situation to have two bidders for the job. 30% is great.

 

[DZL_Damon]

I think the prices will be comparable with the Kedel being a little less expensive. I've been very happy with my Kedel and would buy one again. The remote monitoring is very handy when I'm away from the house, I can check in on it, make adjustments, or ask my neighbor to put more pellets in it! My neighbor likes it too and is installing one in his house as well.

If you don't care about checking the boiler remotely yourself, it sure is handy for your service provider since they can monitor and adjust your boiler from their shop without coming to you most the time. You can also have alarms go to them instead of you so they know when to call you to check on it, or come over themselves. Other than the remote monitoring/trending feature, I believe both of them have all the same automated features. I do like the burn pot design better on the Windhager from an engineering standpoint.

My advise no matter your manufacturer: DON'T oversize it. Even though they modulate, they are more efficient at higher firing rates than lower, and you'll have less chance of cycling during the heel months if you get a slightly smaller one. If I was to do it again I would get the SMALLEST unit and just use my wood stove on the 3 coldest days of the year if I needed to. I oversized the boiler based on my heat requirement calculations for my house and I could have gone even smaller than that since my calculations were not fully accurate since we hit the design day of -10*F a few times and didn't come close to the heat loss (air infiltration is the biggest unknown factor that I guessed at and guessed high it appears).

So.... I ran heating lines out to my shop since I have plenty of capacity left over!

 

[velvetfoot]

I believe I did get the smallest BioWin sold here. Apparently, you can set it via dip switches to be either a 10 kw or a 15 kw unit. Not sure what the ramifications are.

 

[DBNH22]

The Biowin is one model with a dip switch in it that lets you control the output as velvet stated. Last year was my first year with the Biowin and it went great. I have no reservations about recommending the Windhager Biowin. I guess they have released the Biowin2. I'm not sure if it's available in the US yet but I'm sure Marc could let you know about that.

I don't know much about the Kedel other than the people on here that own them seem to be happy with them.

 

[heaterman]

I believe I did get the smallest BioWin sold here. Apparently, you can set it via dip switches to be either a 10 kw or a 15 kw unit. Not sure what the ramifications are.

Your maximum output can be set to either 34,000 or 51,000 btu with a turndown factor of 3 from each of those numbers.

 

[heaterman]

We have installed 20 Windhagers since November of 2012 and right now, have 5 more scheduled to go in before this winter. (4 of the commercial sized units and 1 residential so far)......... .....We'll see if the weather cooperates with our timetable.......

To date, our customers have not experienced a single part failure of any kind. Nothing. It's pretty boring really, they just sit there and run.
Two of them were installed on a large dairy farm exactly one year ago today. When I went there to check them the first of this month both of them had over 30 tons of pellets through them and both hour meters are in excess of 6,000 hours of run time.
Nothing has been done to these boilers other than routine cleaning every 600-700 hours of run time. This severe duty use is the equivalent of probably 4-6 years of heating a normal house type load and there have been no failures to operate for any reason.

We really like the engineering we see in the Windhagers. A few examples would be........
If you ever need to remove the pellet motor and auger assembly for some reason, it takes about 20 minutes. Pretty much everything is laid out with ease of service in mind. Very easy to take care of.
No O2 sensor to wear out. Their combustion control is based on temperatures at various locations in the boiler, rate the water temperature is changing and actual water temperature along with a few other parameters they are tight lipped about. The feed rate and draft fan speed are variable independently of each other.
The condensation protection is built into the boiler which in most circumstances eliminates the need of a mixing valve or other boiler protection device.
A thorough cleaning takes about 20 minutes once you have done it a time or two.
So far they have been bulletproof and I would give them 5 stars.


I can't speak to the Kedel as we have no experience with them

 

[DBNH22]

We really like the engineering we see in the Windhagers. A few examples would be........
If you ever need to remove the pellet motor and auger assembly for some reason, it takes about 20 minutes. Pretty much everything is laid out with ease of service in mind.

That's a big one. Whether we're talking boilers, automobiles on anything else for that matter it's extremely nice when the design engineers consider that their product(s) will have to be serviced at some point in the future. It seems far, far too many products are designed by engineers who either don't consider this or don't care.

By the way heaterman....there is another recent thread where someone was asking about direct venting pellet boilers, the Biowin specifically. I'm told him to ask Marc but to the best of my knowledge the Biowin cannot be direct vented.

 

[JAF]

I am looking at the options between an okefen, and others, but have need of at least 147,000 btu with only a 6 ft high ceiling in the cellar of our small business. It is also damp down there.

 

[Girvil]

Yes, I was the one asking to direct vent the Biowin. I do not have a chimney and installing one inside the house will be almost impossible. An outside one will not get my wife's stamp of approval.

 

[DZL_Damon]

I know you can power vent the Kedel and it has a program built into it to vary the exhaust fan's speed depending on the firing rate to keep the draft relatively even throughout the firing rate range. A chimney is always best, but this is an option if one needs it.

For the Kedel to remove the whole burner, it is one plug for power/communications, remove the drop tube for the incoming pellets, and remove 2 wing nuts. The whole burner is on your bench with no tools at all in less than 60 seconds. The final auger and motor are exposed and easy to service now.

JAF, I answered you PM as well. Kedel has a 54k, 68k, 102k, and 170k model as of now and you can open the cover no problem in a 6ft tall basement. I THINK they are bringing out a larger industrial sized unit that will be atmospheric pressure with heat exchangers, but not sure.

 

[Girvil]

Damon, do you know if they sell just the unit or do I have to buy the installation package also?
My installation is very simple: less than 4 ft of copper pipe and I can drop in the flue vent in less than 2 hours.
Sorry, I did not try to hijack the thread.

 

[DZL_Damon]

Damon, do you know if they sell just the unit or do I have to buy the installation package also?
My installation is very simple: less than 4 ft of copper pipe and I can drop in the flue vent in less than 2 hours.
Sorry, I did not try to hijack the thread.

Girvil, I sent you a PM about my experience so as not to derail this thread.

 

[Markus38]

I would second all that was stated about the Biowin. I love mine. I also would recommend that you do not oversize the boiler. Your goal is to have a "slow trickle"of heat throughout the day not a "hot blast" like with oil.
As for the direct vent, I wanted to go with a direct vent but I chose to "compromise" the beauty of the house to get higher efficiency. I am happy I chose to forgo the direct vent, the Biowin is so quiet compared to my pellet stove and the oil boiler with a direct vent. You can stand next to it and you can barely hear it.

 

[heaterman]

The main issue with a pellet boiler and direct vent is one of safety.
In the circumstance of a power failure during operation, shutdown of a pellet boiler is much different than an oil or gas fired boiler. When power goes off with gas or oil equipment the flame goes out instantly.
This is not the case with a pellet boiler which loses juice while firing. There will be unburned fuel in the firepot so with no natural draft present all the byproducts, combustion gases and heat, have no means of escape. So now we have introduced the possibility of an overheat condition and or CO and other flue gas entering the structure.
A properly sized chimney will always be safer than a direct vent or sidewall vent because it provides natural draft to remove exhaust gases and heat.

To all here, there are priorities that need to be taken into account when selecting equipment for any application and any installation.

These are:
Efficiency
Aesthetics
Convenience of operation
Maintenance requirements
Safety
Durability

You can order those according to personal preference but safety always has to be number 1.
A nice looking boiler install does no good if it kills you or a loved one, or burns down your house.

 

[velvetfoot]

A direct vented oil boiler is not that ugly. That might be the way to go. I was thinking of it, but I was able to fit in another flue.

 

[Girvil]

With a direct vent pellet boiler, an UPS is a must, at least in my opinion. There are multiple ways to interrupt the demand for heat and let the fan take care of the combustion gasses until the fire is extinguished.