Crown Royal Gasifier vs Multi-Pass

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
6,154
NE Ohio
I suppose you can run without storage but it will gunk it up for sure, and yes we are using external storage
I think the new Heatmaster G series are designed to be used without storage...among others...
 
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Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,107
Northern Indiana
I think the new Heatmaster G series are designed to be used without storage...among others...
If you tried to run storage with one of those you would be lighting a fire every time you filled it. And getting a coal bed for it to run would have you so pissed you would never use it.

theyhave the 150-300 gallons of water they need depending on size. Most run from 160 on to 180 off on the controls. It should fire and run a handful of times each day depending on temps and heat load. I adjust my set points so mine runs about once every hour to hour and a half.
 
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E Yoder

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2017
523
Floyd, VA
What stove are you running?
A HeatMaster G7000. As was mentioned a completely different animal than the indoor style gassers with separate storage.
It stays the cleanest loading for 12 hours, but I could do 16/8 with no issues.
My experience over the years has been that conventional style units can tolerate the 24 hour loading pattern better, but the gassers get more forgiving with every year model changes.
You can buy a conventional unit, be aware that burning coal while heating your house or connecting to a commercial building is your only legal use.
 

Deets

Member
Sep 7, 2020
129
Northern IL
A HeatMaster G7000. As was mentioned a completely different animal than the indoor style gassers with separate storage.
It stays the cleanest loading for 12 hours, but I could do 16/8 with no issues.
My experience over the years has been that conventional style units can tolerate the 24 hour loading pattern better, but the gassers get more forgiving with every year model changes.
You can buy a conventional unit, be aware that burning coal while heating your house or connecting to a commercial building is your only legal use.
I’ve been looking at the G7000, you think that would be enough stove for my application?
 

Deets

Member
Sep 7, 2020
129
Northern IL
The 7500 E Crown Royal would be plenty big enough and will probably give you those 24 hour burns unless it got really cold out. Check out Unleashed Outdoors on YouTube for some good videos. He is a dealer and is heating about what you want to.
7400 is the biggest gasser they build, I need to compare the specs on the crown and the heat master. Pretty much narrowed it down to those two brands.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,655
Downeast Maine
I see a lot of misconceptions on the OWB gassers. Yes, you can easily size it to run 24 hours. They do better at the 12 hour mark but, if you did the 16 and 8 you would be fine.
I can load my multi pass once a day and it burns clean still down to about zero degrees before it has too much of a load. I load before work and after work, this will be the first winter in many years I’m not on 24hr shifts.
There is no “idling” with an OWB as it shuts air off to it when it’s not calling for heat and is airtight without the induction fans blowing. The coal bed stays hot and it will fire right up when needed.
As far as the mud around it. No, the line set is insulated enough and goes into the backwhere it is insulated. I have snow under my boiler that never melts. And, I can buy the line sets at$12-$13 dollars a foot all day long.

You will have to buy a Gasser unless you have commercial applications. The 7500 E Crown Royal would be plenty big enough and will probably give you those 24 hour burns unless it got really cold out. Check out Unleashed Outdoors on YouTube for some good videos. He is a dealer and is heating about what you want to.

They are more like a modulated boiler than something that needs storage. The storage route is expensive and will require a pressurized system be open system. Completely different animals.
I meant mud would be caused by a buried tank of water, not an OWB.
 
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Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,107
Northern Indiana
7400 is the biggest gasser they build, I need to compare the specs on the crown and the heat master. Pretty much narrowed it down to those two brands.
I think my phone changed that on man.

I think the Heat Master units are awesome and well built also but, the Crown Royal is a lot more simple and less electronics. Just something to think about.
 
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E Yoder

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2017
523
Floyd, VA
My new house is much better built and insulated. Just over 4000 sq ft and half is forced air and the other half is heated concrete floor. Have a 1200 sq ft out building that insulated well and has pex in the floor for radiant heat but no manifolds or boiler hooked to it yet. Also have plans to pour a new 600-700 sq ft patio with the ability to heat it.
So I’m looking at an OWB that can handle 7,000 sq ft.
I think the house and garage would be a good fit for the G7000. Not sure what you mean by heating the patio- snowmelt?
So that could be a variable, as it would be intermittent.
They do have a G10,000 now also.
If you're gone long days you're still gonna want to check it morning and evening (even if it's 16+ hours apart), if nothing else just to bump the wood together. It takes 2 minutes and it'll burn better. The key thing with the G models I've seen I'd letting it burn down to a coal bed once a day. Don't top it off constantly.
The O2 sensor on the new G's helps it run clean even when loaded heavy, something they didn't have with the 2019 models.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,655
Downeast Maine
I think the house and garage would be a good fit for the G7000. Not sure what you mean by heating the patio- snowmelt?
So that could be a variable, as it would be intermittent.
They do have a G10,000 now also.
If you're gone long days you're still gonna want to check it morning and evening (even if it's 16+ hours apart), if nothing else just to bump the wood together. It takes 2 minutes and it'll burn better. The key thing with the G models I've seen I'd letting it burn down to a coal bed once a day. Don't top it off constantly.
The O2 sensor on the new G's helps it run clean even when loaded heavy, something they didn't have with the 2019 models.
I bet an O2 controlled outdoor gasser is every bit as efficient as the Kuuma VF100, which is to say pretty great. If I needed a wood hydronic system those G series gassers seem pretty nice.
 

salecker

Minister of Fire
Aug 22, 2010
1,367
Northern Canada
I take it that you are using extra storage. What you guys are saying is that if a guy was to go buy a new gasification boiler, you can’t run it without extra storage?
Yes i have 1000 gal of storage.
You can run a gasifier without storage but the time you spend cleaning it will make the time spent starting a fire seem minuscule.
I causally go from the end of oct to the middle of April without using the backup oil.When my family was still here we would go on holidays during spring break,then the oil boiler would run for a couple of weeks
 
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salecker

Minister of Fire
Aug 22, 2010
1,367
Northern Canada
Oof, didn’t think about that. Was hoping it would heat the pad some, to keep the firewood nice and dry.
One of the reasons i built a building for mine.
I keep about 4 days of wood in the heated building.I never had a wiood shed for years so in the time the wood was inside it would dry any surface moisture and be at +20 C instead of -40C if brought in from outside.Plus i have a workshop that is warm 24/7
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
6,154
NE Ohio
I bet an O2 controlled outdoor gasser is every bit as efficient as the Kuuma VF100
Probably.
But as far as clean burning, the lamba controlled boiler might win...at least over the span of the whole fire cycle. The VF is controlling the firebox temp, the lamba boiler is constantly adjusting the air to make the emissions as clean as possible.
 
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Deets

Member
Sep 7, 2020
129
Northern IL
I think my phone changed that on man.

I think the Heat Master units are awesome and well built also but, the Crown Royal is a lot more simple and less electronics. Just something to think about.
Simple is good when it comes to replacing electronics. How about overall build quality? One seem better than the other, or is it like a Ford/Chevy thing?
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,655
Downeast Maine
Simple is good when it comes to replacing electronics. How about overall build quality? One seem better than the other, or is it like a Ford/Chevy thing?
I think in this case it's Lambda/O2 controlled vs a more conventional "on/off" style boilers.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,655
Downeast Maine
You might as well be speaking a different language.
The O2 sensor can tell how much unburned fuel there is in the smoke stream and make adjusments to the air intake to clean up the exhaust. A boiler without an O2 sensor will just open up the air when there is a call for heat and then close it. Much like how an auto tune saw can monitor the exhaust and make changes to the fueling.
 
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brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
6,154
NE Ohio
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Deets

Member
Sep 7, 2020
129
Northern IL
So, does the heat master G7000 or the Crown Royal 7400e have an O2 sensor? Or are we talking different stoves all together?
 

E Yoder

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2017
523
Floyd, VA
The HeatMaster G models have an O2 sensor. I don't think Crown does but I haven't seen this year model.
 
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JimBear

Minister of Fire
Dec 15, 2017
631
Iowa
I see you are getting all kinds of answers to your questions Deets. Lots of helpful info but that’s what you joined for. You are even learning a new language. Lol.
 
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Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,107
Northern Indiana
Simple is good when it comes to replacing electronics. How about overall build quality? One seem better than the other, or is it like a Ford/Chevy thing?
To me they are both quality craftsmanship. Of all the OWB on the market those two companies have the best support and will actually stand by their product. The most well known has a track record of piss poor service after the sale, I won’t bash any company unless it’s HY-C.

Reach out to dealers local to you and compare both. There are plenty of good dealers that will tell you straight up what they like about each and what they don’t like. Beware of dealers that only bad mouth the competition, they will be hard to find after the sale is complete.

The HeatMaster G models have an O2 sensor. I don't think Crown does but I haven't seen this year model.
Crown made very little changes to meet the 2020 guidelines. Looks mainly like the nozzle and refractory were changed, actually better now
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,655
Downeast Maine
I see you are getting all kinds of answers to your questions Deets. Lots of helpful info but that’s what you joined for. You are even learning a new language. Lol.
I warned he might get too much advice ;lol
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,655
Downeast Maine
If I were in the market I wouldn't consider anything other than the G series gasser, but I also don't have access to cheap bulk coal deliveries. If you can get cheap coal the multi-pass doesn't seem like a bad deal, but I would stress about the heavy metal content of the coal...
 

Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
1,107
Northern Indiana
If I were in the market I wouldn't consider anything other than the G series gasser, but I also don't have access to cheap bulk coal deliveries. If you can get cheap coal the multi-pass doesn't seem like a bad deal, but I would stress about the heavy metal content of the coal...
I burned coal for a few weeks last year. It’s a different animal and it needs to be pretty cold out to keep it burning. It does burn extremely clean though.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,655
Downeast Maine
I burned coal for a few weeks last year. It’s a different animal and it needs to be pretty cold out to keep it burning. It does burn extremely clean though.
I do like that anthracite is smokeless and I did consider a dual fuel cookstove, but the heavy metals in the emissions turns me off.