In an attempt to be more green, I am considering converting my splitter to electric. I have a speeco 25 ton with a 9hp briggs on it. Has anyone attempted such a conversion. It seems from what I have found on the internet that I will need one heck of an electric motor to maintain comparable power, most likely 220v. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Converting gas splitter to electric
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It will be interesting to see what others say, but I wouldn't try it.
Several reasons. First, you will doubtless lose some capacity (9 HP is equal to about 12 KW, so even at 220V you probably won't have proper wiring to power it; you'll end up with a much smaller motor. Secondly, it would cost a lot. Third, unless you are getting your power from wind or hydro or some "green source" you probably won't cause that much difference in pollution / consumption, you'll just move it to the powerplant.
Spend the money on insulation and really help your wallet and the planet!
Several reasons. First, you will doubtless lose some capacity (9 HP is equal to about 12 KW, so even at 220V you probably won't have proper wiring to power it; you'll end up with a much smaller motor. Secondly, it would cost a lot. Third, unless you are getting your power from wind or hydro or some "green source" you probably won't cause that much difference in pollution / consumption, you'll just move it to the powerplant.
Spend the money on insulation and really help your wallet and the planet!
On the forum at arboristsite.com, one individual has a hybrid splitter. It can run off of the gas engine or electric motor. He says it works well.
aussieblake
aussieblake
I think its a good plan. quieter for the neighbors and lets you split when you want.
Just size your new pump and motor together for the hp you can supply. Won't be as much as the gas engine, but as long as the pump and motor are sized to each other, you will be fine. Two stage pump for sure.
Then run each pump (gas one and the electric one) through a large check valve at each pump, then to a tee and on to the manual lever valve. Typically checks need to be sized one or two sizes larger than line size because of the restriction. One guy on AS had that problem with checks being too small. Once corrected worked fine.
Personally, I'd put a relief valve on the outlet of the pump before the check in case the checks malfunctioned and restricted flow, but not totally necessary. I am just a worrier....
Whichever pump is running simply free flows through its own check, backseats the check to the other pump, and supplies the splitter.
I would NOT use quick couplers though. a. chance of outlet line becoming disconnected, then being a blocked line, and blowing the pump b. Too much restriction on the inlet line, possibly cavitating the pump. Just leave both hooked up all the time. You could probably tee into the same suction line.
In some scenarios, if the rest of the lines and suction were sized high enough, you could run both together for some serious speed (no change in force) but that is a topic a bit advanced for discussion now.
k
Just size your new pump and motor together for the hp you can supply. Won't be as much as the gas engine, but as long as the pump and motor are sized to each other, you will be fine. Two stage pump for sure.
Then run each pump (gas one and the electric one) through a large check valve at each pump, then to a tee and on to the manual lever valve. Typically checks need to be sized one or two sizes larger than line size because of the restriction. One guy on AS had that problem with checks being too small. Once corrected worked fine.
Personally, I'd put a relief valve on the outlet of the pump before the check in case the checks malfunctioned and restricted flow, but not totally necessary. I am just a worrier....
Whichever pump is running simply free flows through its own check, backseats the check to the other pump, and supplies the splitter.
I would NOT use quick couplers though. a. chance of outlet line becoming disconnected, then being a blocked line, and blowing the pump b. Too much restriction on the inlet line, possibly cavitating the pump. Just leave both hooked up all the time. You could probably tee into the same suction line.
In some scenarios, if the rest of the lines and suction were sized high enough, you could run both together for some serious speed (no change in force) but that is a topic a bit advanced for discussion now.
k
I wouldn't do it...that machine has engineering requirements that have to be carefully factored in. If you want to go green just sell you Speeco with the coin you get from that you can buy 2 electric splitters and maybe a new chain saw.
My new Ramsplitter has a 3 HP electric motor on it and definitely isn't oversized. It will pull way over nameplate amps when I bury it in a knot, but motors can usually handle intermittent overloads without harm. I think I would go right foe a 5 HP motor in your situation. Motor HP and engine HP seem to be two different things. The eqivalent gas Ramsplitter has a 5 HP engine.
You will need a lot of current for it to work. Don't even think about running it on 120V. I would plan on a 60 amp 240V circuit and 6 ga wire to stay out of trouble with a 5 HP motor.
Are you going to use the same pump? If it is belt driven, a motor should be easy to bolt on, but a direct drive setup is possible if you can find the right adaptor and coupling.
I won't argue the "green" factor, but show me a gas splitter that costs less than 50 cents an hour to operate. Definitely quieter, too!
I ran into a lot of naysayers when I was researching the electric option, but I am a believer now. FWIW, I think I would see how much you can get for the Speeco and look at the Ram. $1550 delivered for a pre-engineered solution might be attractive if you can get a grand for the old one.
Chris
You will need a lot of current for it to work. Don't even think about running it on 120V. I would plan on a 60 amp 240V circuit and 6 ga wire to stay out of trouble with a 5 HP motor.
Are you going to use the same pump? If it is belt driven, a motor should be easy to bolt on, but a direct drive setup is possible if you can find the right adaptor and coupling.
I won't argue the "green" factor, but show me a gas splitter that costs less than 50 cents an hour to operate. Definitely quieter, too!
I ran into a lot of naysayers when I was researching the electric option, but I am a believer now. FWIW, I think I would see how much you can get for the Speeco and look at the Ram. $1550 delivered for a pre-engineered solution might be attractive if you can get a grand for the old one.
Chris
my gas splitter isnt much ove 50cents hr
60 amp wire is very expensive
zero savings switching a good running machine out
60 amp wire is very expensive
zero savings switching a good running machine out
I think I will leave well enough alone. I figured it would take one heck of a motor to supply sufficient power. If it needs to be 220 that will definately limit where I can use it. The splitter is only $1100 new, so resale will not be great. It meets my needs, but I don't want to give up any of the power. There are times when it seems to need that power(twisty stumps). Thanks for the opinions.
bjorn - don't know if you are aware of this, but the Ramsplitter that is being referenced is in our very own town (Rockford). You might want to stroll down there and take a look.
I bet you could pull 900 out of your splitter used. For 750 it would be a firesale and people would be ringing your phone off the hook!
Sometimes when I'm cutting those huge boundary trees I'll bring the splitter in the woods cause the tree is too big to drag with the tractor...gas splitters have definite advantages. esp if you're cutting your own wood. Now if you're always buying log loads (which is the smart wood burning move) and cutting 'em outside your garage then an electric splitter would be perfect for you. As far as the expense goes yeah electric is less expensive but I don't think I use that much gas for 20 cords...not 15 gallons, maybe 10 but the way I'm looking at it is that I save 3k a years and I'm warm enough to walk around the house like I do in the summer time...and that's a true luxury.
sounds like staying with gas is better option.
I'd like an electric option because of noise, but right close to neighbors.
Just to clarify, you don't give up FORCE with smaller pump. That is determined only by operating pressure (usually 2500 psi) and piston area (cylinder bore area).
Whether running 1 gpm hand pump or 100 gpm, the force is the same and determined only by cylinder and maximum pressure.
Horsepower is (flow gpm x pressure psi ) / 1714 unit conversion.
More horsepower allows more flow which is more speed.
Your current engine was many gpm. A small electric might be 5 gpm. Same force, just much slower.
It just bugs me no end to hear people talking (not this thread) of 5 hp splitter vs. 12 hp splitter as though it makes a force difference. Or, people upgrading the engine, or even pump and engine, and expecting more force. Not.....
More hp is more speed for sure.
kcj
I'd like an electric option because of noise, but right close to neighbors.
Just to clarify, you don't give up FORCE with smaller pump. That is determined only by operating pressure (usually 2500 psi) and piston area (cylinder bore area).
Whether running 1 gpm hand pump or 100 gpm, the force is the same and determined only by cylinder and maximum pressure.
Horsepower is (flow gpm x pressure psi ) / 1714 unit conversion.
More horsepower allows more flow which is more speed.
Your current engine was many gpm. A small electric might be 5 gpm. Same force, just much slower.
It just bugs me no end to hear people talking (not this thread) of 5 hp splitter vs. 12 hp splitter as though it makes a force difference. Or, people upgrading the engine, or even pump and engine, and expecting more force. Not.....
More hp is more speed for sure.
kcj
Oh and 9 HP is NOT 12 KW, there are 745.7 watts in one HP, so the equivalent motor will consume 6711 watts and using a 220 volt motor will only be 30.5 amps, so you can use an 8 gauge wire (rated for 40 amps) and a 40 amp breaker.
But really, if your pump is an 11GPM model it only needs a 5.5 HP engine if you follow the GPM/2 rule, so a 4101 watt electric motor will work which is only 18 amps of 220 which can be fed by a cheap 10 gauge, 30 amp circuit. A 250 foot roll of 10 gauge wire can be had for small money. I would try and find a motor a little oversized in the 5KW range. I wonder why they used a 9HP engine?
If you use the same pump and just replace the engine with a motor, then it will work just fine since electricity in the US runs at 60Hz which is 3600 RPM which is what that briggs engine is set to run at. The no load ram speed will be unchanged for any size motor.
But really, if your pump is an 11GPM model it only needs a 5.5 HP engine if you follow the GPM/2 rule, so a 4101 watt electric motor will work which is only 18 amps of 220 which can be fed by a cheap 10 gauge, 30 amp circuit. A 250 foot roll of 10 gauge wire can be had for small money. I would try and find a motor a little oversized in the 5KW range. I wonder why they used a 9HP engine?
If you use the same pump and just replace the engine with a motor, then it will work just fine since electricity in the US runs at 60Hz which is 3600 RPM which is what that briggs engine is set to run at. The no load ram speed will be unchanged for any size motor.
Highbeam said:
You are assuming the motor is 100% efficient. Let me know when you find one...
The 9 HP is probably oversized, but I don't know what his pump is rated. The mfr spends a few extra bucks on an oversized motor because it makes for good advertising. If you were comparing splitters and one had a 5 HP and the other a 9 HP, wouldn't you lean toward the bigger engine?
My recommendations come from personal experience with a real electric splitter. You could economize on the motor and wiring, but if I spent the money on a motor and found it was undersized, I'd be pissed. You can't return it after it's been used.
Chris
Ah, this would be if replaced the 9 hp gas engine with electric only.
I would not do that, you are then limited on versatility in using it anywhere else.
I for sure would not try and drive the same pump with either electric or gas. Belts, clutches, etc. more hassle than the second setup, and probably not much cheaper.
I assumed you were adding a second pump, of 11 gpm or probably much smaller, driven by electric motor, but in parallel to gas.
then use electric at home, in the garage or inside, have gas if necessary to go to the woods.
k
I would not do that, you are then limited on versatility in using it anywhere else.
I for sure would not try and drive the same pump with either electric or gas. Belts, clutches, etc. more hassle than the second setup, and probably not much cheaper.
I assumed you were adding a second pump, of 11 gpm or probably much smaller, driven by electric motor, but in parallel to gas.
then use electric at home, in the garage or inside, have gas if necessary to go to the woods.
k
3 years ago I changed my 8hp wood spliter with a 11gpm pump over to a 3hp electric and it works great.
The elec. motor draws around 23 amp. It is run on a 150' #10 SJ cord. When I split my 9 cords of wood my elec. bill never changes.
The pump make more noise than you think.
The pump is driven by 2-B belt to get the RPM's
All of my wood is delivered by log truck. So elec. works for me. No GAS
Marcus
The elec. motor draws around 23 amp. It is run on a 150' #10 SJ cord. When I split my 9 cords of wood my elec. bill never changes.
The pump make more noise than you think.
The pump is driven by 2-B belt to get the RPM's
All of my wood is delivered by log truck. So elec. works for me. No GAS
Marcus
Highbeam said:
Standard motor rpms' range from 1745, 3450 with some advertised rpm of 3600. The motors that are rated at 3600 rpm have a standard "working" or "rated" rpm of 3450. The difference between the 3600 and 3450 rpm will most likely not even be noticeable, but I did want to make sure that an assumption that all motors in the US ran at 3600 rpm was not made.
I looked into converting my 6HP splitter to electric. A comparative motor would be 3HP, you need to factor in that an electric motor has considerably more torque than a gas engine so you can get away with a smaller HP. I found a chart somewhere that listed all motor/engine types and gave a better equivelant rating going from one type to another. Anyway ordering from grainger the parts need and cost are:
Part Stock # $
Motor 3HP c-face 6k145 348.75
2 stage haldex pump 4f663 163.50
c-face pump motor adapter 59.95
coupling 10.14
coupling insert 10.74
TOTAL 593.08
I priced the pump but my pump could be used so I wouldn't need to buy it. My splitter is new and I don't want to replace a perfectly good engine. Maybe when the engine dies or the kids get old enough for a go cart I will convert mine. If you do convert be sure and use the adapter as opposed to belts, belts wear out, take up space, and are a hazard to work around
Part Stock # $
Motor 3HP c-face 6k145 348.75
2 stage haldex pump 4f663 163.50
c-face pump motor adapter 59.95
coupling 10.14
coupling insert 10.74
TOTAL 593.08
I priced the pump but my pump could be used so I wouldn't need to buy it. My splitter is new and I don't want to replace a perfectly good engine. Maybe when the engine dies or the kids get old enough for a go cart I will convert mine. If you do convert be sure and use the adapter as opposed to belts, belts wear out, take up space, and are a hazard to work around
clarkharms said:
And the 2 stage splitter pumps do not have bearings designed for side loading pressure that a belt config would give.
Wow, I never expected this topic to stimulate such a response. After thinking about it, the less practical it sounds. To add an additional pump, necessary lines and a motor is a lot more expense than I care to spend. The gas engine is working fine, so I will use it until it dies. I do use the splitter in the woods from time to time. I cut my own wood rather than having anything delivered. I store/season everything I cut at my father-in-law's place for a year before I move it to my house in the city. His place is remote enough where the noise is not an issue for anyone but the splitter operator. Also, this splitter makes it's way around the family. Not everyone has accessible 220, so it may not allow some of them to use it. Of course, that may be a good thing....
Highbeam said:
Highbeam is absolutely correct. I (embarassingly) calculated 9/.746 instead of 9*.746. This getting old stuff ain't easy!
I just wanted to point out that small motors such as those on splitters are usually heavy polluters for their size. The electric grid is a mix of coal, gas, hydro, wind, etc. but even if all your electricity is coming from a coal plant the pollution is less.EngineRep said:
Here is my recent conversion if anyone is interested, an old 6x6 Attex with a heavily polluting 2 stroke now running on batteries. Great for putting around the woods dragging logs back to the house :coolgrin: No more cloud of blue smoke around me though to kill the mosquitoes :grrr:
Hmmm, something happened to the image. Follow the links for pictures:
http://www.evalbum.com/1609
http://amp-phibian.blogspot.com/
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JRP - That is one slick conversion. I will bet that long term you have a more reliable system than the original. How is the performance compared to the original?
Better as far as I'm concerned. I have it geared 16 to 1 so I don't have the top speed of the 2 stroke, which was around 30, but I don't need it either. I top out around 20 I think, but I have so much more low end power for pulling and good acceleration. I haven't yet come close to fully discharging the batteries in daily use though I wouldn't take it on a long trail ride. I'll probably mount a bicycle speedometer to check my range and speed. The electric motor should never need any maintenance at all. Even though it uses brushes since this isn't exactly a daily driver they should last forever.
JRP3:
What a sweet machine!
What year is it?
How many batteries did you install?
What is the range?
(If you don't mind me asking) what did the entire conversion cost, in parts?
Thanks.
What a sweet machine!
What year is it?
How many batteries did you install?
What is the range?
(If you don't mind me asking) what did the entire conversion cost, in parts?
Thanks.
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