Creosote once again

[headrc]

Hi…it has been a while since I have posted on here. But as always this is the best place for answers on problems with wood boiler systems. I thank every one for that here.

I have a Shaver Wood Boiler as a heat source for a radiant heating system. I cut all my wood a year ahead so it is dry. I do not have a secondary storage tank because I do not need it, living in Tennessee.

However, a couple of years ago I chose to just forgo stove pipe to extend the chimney on the shaver. It always clogged so badly I tried getting rid of it and as far as creosote have not had a problem at all with the stack coming out of the unit.

But I would like to revisit this in order to vent the smoke away from the housing structures more. I believe I understand what causes creosote and I really don't want to use more wood to keep throwing heat up the chimney when I don't really need the heat for our system. I have finally conquered the boil-off issues with this boiler after several years and I don't want to increase that problem as well. And yes I know the Shaver is not a premium boiler but it works for what I need. Also, I make sure that the seal on the door is god every year and caulk it again if needed.

My question is, with double walled SS pipe make a lot of difference for this issue? It is expensive only to find I am going to pull it off because of creosote build up again.

Thanks in advance, RH

 

[maple1]

I cut all my wood a year ahead so it is dry. I do not have a secondary storage tank because I do not need it, living in Tennessee.

Just a couple of comments from that. Being cut a year ahead is no guarantee the wood will be dry (that would depend on how long it has been stacked, after splitting, and the conditions it has been sitting in since then), and storage is not a function of where one lives. Not sure exactly what you meant, but if you are saying you don't need storage because it's warmer in Tennessee - then generally speaking, warmer places are ones that would benefit most from storage.

The bulk of your creosote build up would come when the unit is idling - so whatever you can do to lessen the idling will lessen the creosote. Aside from being absolutely sure the wood is dry, the next thing to do would be to not put too much wood in it for the heat load at that time. That likely would mean more frequent tending, but is also the nature of the beast. How much of a length of pipe are you talking about? Not likely going to stainless will help the smoke problem much. It might help creosote buildup, if it's a tall pipe.

 

[headrc]

Hi, thanks for the reply.

The wood is definitely dry Kept under cover for well over a year. Stacked well and kept up off the ground. More storage is just not something I feel I want to invest in at this time ….way too expensive and too much of a hassle. Especially when I find many times that I am not calling for any heat from the boiler due to warmer weather. Which of course is why creosote can be a problem. The boiler is idling. I try to manage the wood in the boiler and probably am doing it a lot better than when I had the creosote problem a couple of years ago.

Regarding length of pipe …probably not a lot. 4 feet to 8 feet maximum. Regular stove pipe previously was rotted out within one season due to the creosote problem. So finally just did away with it and again, now no creosote problem. But the boiler about 30 feet from a parking overhang and the smoke gets under that at times when the wind blows that way. Causing discoloration and discomfort so I would like to try pipe again if I could resolve this issue.

So from your response, I assume the doubled wall stainless would not help with a creosote problem. It would last longer I am sure. I thought being double walled it could help with the problem of the idling etc.

 

[Fred61]

Especially when I find many times that I am not calling for any heat from the boiler due to warmer weather

So help me get this straight. Storage is more of a hassle than fighting smoke and creosote problems? You are also not understanding the merits of storage with the statement in the quote above. That's where storage shines.

 

[headrc]

So help me get this straight. Storage is more of a hassle than fighting smoke and creosote problems? You are also not understanding the merits of storage with the statement in the quote above. That's where storage shines.

Yes IMO it is more of a hassle for my needs. As I understand it from reading on initial installation …large storage tank, where to put it, insulating it, pressurized or non pressurized ... all the while when I do not really need the extra storage of heat. Unless I missed something … I decided against it. Again, right now my only issue is smoke …not creosote. But historically if I put a taller chimney on the boiler then I do have an issue of creosote. Maybe I will just give it a try and see if now being more experienced with how to manage fire in the boiler with wood etc. I won't have too much of a problem. If I were in the Northeast I could see the sense of storage ….but not where I am located.

 

[maple1]

Storage is not for extra heat. It is to give the heat somewhere to go so the boiler can burn wide open. Thereby producing less smoke & creosote.

 

[headrc]

Yes I did not state this correctly. But it would certainly be a lot more expense and hassle …and use a lot more wood. It really is not an interesting proposition for me where I am located.

 

[JRHAWK9]

: popcorn :

 

[Chicken Farmer]

It would definately consume more wood per firing to get the system up to temp with storage, but the beauty of that is time between firings. The question is this: Are you concerned about reducing the smoke output or relocating where the smoke is going? If you want to reduce the smoke production, then you will need a heat load big enough to shunt the BTU production of the fire - storage. If you are more concerned about just getting the smoke up, then the double wall stainless pipe will last much longer than single wall, make sure to orient it the right way or water will lay in the seams.

 

[headrc]

I am just concerned about the smoke. I really don't want to get involved with all the dynamics of adding a storage tank.

 

[Chicken Farmer]

Well, just stick a couple sections of stainless pipe up there and call it a day.

 

[rkusek]

Yes I did not state this correctly. But it would certainly be a lot more expense and hassle …and use a lot more wood. It really is not an interesting proposition for me where I am located.

No, it would actually burn a lot cleaner with less smoke because it wouldn't have to idle. All the heat would go into the storage and you could heat your home for several more hours with no fire at all. You would use less wood and probably have much less cresote. Storage is better in warmer weather because the boiler can run wide open and send all the heat to storage when the home does not need it. Much better than idling and causing cresote. The guys with gassifying boilers and old propane tanks for storage only burn about 8 hrs out of 24 in a day during most of the winter up north. That's usually 2 loads for majority of the days and the firebox holds about 6 cubic feet probably about 1/3rd the size of an OWB like a Shaver. I would think an old dairy bulk tank (unpressurized, stainless steel) would make a better storage for an OWB. Maybe someone that has tried this will comment.

 

[JP11]

You've gotten many good answers with good solid SCIENCE behind them.

If you are determined to not listen to good advice.. not sure how anyone on this board can help you.

JP

 

[maple1]

I am just concerned about the smoke. I really don't want to get involved with all the dynamics of adding a storage tank.

Concerned about where it goes, or that it is being produced?

There is only so much you can do with what you have - so, you can put a taller insulated chimney on it to try to reduce the creosote condensation and send the smoke further away, or, make smaller more frequent fires so it doesn't smolder as much. That will require quite a bit more fire tending. But I don't think you will ever stop it from smoking, or reduce it a significant amount if you're already using dry wood - just the nature of the beast.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

I am just concerned about the smoke. I really don't want to get involved with all the dynamics of adding a storage tank.

Storage will more then likely take care of your smoke and creosote problem .... .

 

[headrc]

I am not saying the advice is not good …but after previously considering extra storage ….it is just too much expense and construction time and effort to install that into the system at this time. I also have space limitations where the boiler is currently located. And I really do not want to think about relocating the boiler at this time. As I stated right from the start of this thread …I have always found the information here to be good and helpful. But we all have different dynamics for installation of our systems. So I guess I will try double walled ss pipe and see how it goes. One question comes up on that then ….what are the feelings regarding different construction of this pipe here? Should inner and outer be stainless? Any recommended manufacturers? Thanks to all here … I don't mean to insult by any means. But the whole extra storage tank idea is just way too involved for me at this time.

 

[OPtaylor]

Hi…it has been a while since I have posted on here. But as always this is the best place for answers on problems with wood boiler systems. I thank every one for that here.

I have a Shaver Wood Boiler as a heat source for a radiant heating system. I cut all my wood a year ahead so it is dry. I do not have a secondary storage tank because I do not need it, living in Tennessee.

However, a couple of years ago I chose to just forgo stove pipe to extend the chimney on the shaver. It always clogged so badly I tried getting rid of it and as far as creosote have not had a problem at all with the stack coming out of the unit.

But I would like to revisit this in order to vent the smoke away from the housing structures more. I believe I understand what causes creosote and I really don't want to use more wood to keep throwing heat up the chimney when I don't really need the heat for our system. I have finally conquered the boil-off issues with this boiler after several years and I don't want to increase that problem as well. And yes I know the Shaver is not a premium boiler but it works for what I need. Also, I make sure that the seal on the door is god every year and caulk it again if needed.

My question is, with double walled SS pipe make a lot of difference for this issue? It is expensive only to find I am going to pull it off because of creosote build up again.

Thanks in advance, RH

Not sure if you got your problem solved since I am late to the game. how old is your Shaver and what if anything have you done to it?

 

[headrc]

Not sure if you got your problem solved since I am late to the game. how old is your Shaver and what if anything have you done to it?

Hi, my Shaver has been installed now for about 7 years. As far as doing anything to it, I have had to replace the pump a couple of times (covered by warranty) and the fan as well (not covered). I also had to replace the hot water loop supplied by Shaver, as it turned out it had been crimped somehow when it was installed. The creosote issue is better due to my better understanding management of the problem. I am using it with a radiant floor heating system. Something Shaver is not really usually used for. As such there has been a lot of back and forth on this. Shaver is probably the cheapest alternative regarding wood burning boilers, but they can and do work if you understand how to manage them. Hope this helps.

 

[OPtaylor]

One thing to help with usage and creosote is to install a solenoid actuated damper on the combustion fan if you have not done so already. It's something they do on the newer stove that wasn't on the older models, i have one so I know. Mines been running for 6-7 years and iv'e modified the fan and the temperature controller to make it more efficient. Some people complain a lot about the stoves but mine was cheap and well built and served me well.