Critiques of Blaze King Stoves...Exist ?

[2fireplacesinSC]

Looking for the "eating popcorn" icon. Anyone know where it's at?

 

[DUMF]

Perhaps you should try to pass Method 28R with your "not complicated" observations. If they were simple and passing Method 28R was not difficult using them, would you not expect to many more stoves on the market using them. You are invited anytime to visit with us in Walla Walla. I am 100% certain your appreciation for combustion engineering would be enhanced.

Complex is our new "stealth" warship that lost "combustion engineering" in the Panama Canal.
The O.P. was not just "how much", but why, and what are some of the problems actual users have with BK stoves....as with all stoves, all products.

So BKVP, what's this "Method 28B" ? Can't be the complexity of an F-35. We were just in WALLA WALLA 3 weeks ago on our way to Portland. If I had known that this simple post would have stirred up the hornets' nest, I would have stopped by. Nice invite, thanks.
I think it's about cocktail hour. Time to end this. Thanks for all the more rational evals. ( Mind not made up. )

 

[BrotherBart]

Looking for the "eating popcorn" icon. Anyone know where it's at?

 

[BKVP]

Complex is our new "stealth" warship that lost "combustion engineering" in the Panama Canal.
The O.P. was not just "how much", but why, and what are some of the problems actual users have with BK stoves....as with all stoves, all products.

So BKVP, what's this "Method 28B" ? Can't be the complexity of an F-35. We were just in WALLA WALLA 3 weeks ago on our way to Portland. If I had known that this simple post would have stirred up the hornets' nest, I would have stopped by. Nice invite, thanks.
I think it's about cocktail hour. Time to end this. Thanks for all the more rational evals. ( Mind not made up. )

Well, it is the revised version of Method 28, revised May 15, 2015. It is the process by which wood stoves, all wood stoves that wish to have EPA designation, must pass. The test and the method are the easy part....

When you have a mechanical air control, one that stays where you set it, you can fairly well predict the amount of air that enters into firebox for combustion purposes. When you go to an EPA certified test facility, you must conduct at least four tests. Each test, also called a "run", is defined by the kg/hr consumption rate. There is latitude or range in each defined run. For example, your low run may not exceed .89 kg/hr. If it does, you must repeat two number category 2 runs to replace the low run. Cat stoves generally run well below .89 kg/hr on low because of the chemical nature of destruction requiring only 550F. Secondary combustion stoves run faster, usually 1.15 or higher for the low run, resulting in excellerated burns and correspondingly hotter, typically 1176F.

The very nature of wood makes hitting or staying within the confined (defined) burn rates diffficult. Now try that with an air control that MOVES! For proprietary reasons, suffice it to say if it were easy, we could put new models to market much faster.

As for some of the observations some make to "issues" that we have from time to time. We make and sell a whole lot more stoves than one of those companies. As a percentage of stoves sold, I can assure you our "issues" are vastly less than most if not all other wood stove companies.

We do also conduct extensive beta testing. When you weld metal, things move. And in some cases, when tolerances are very tight, such as maximizing firebox size and tightening up space below the firebox, a bit more tolerance would be nice. That way, instead of a couple of folks having an issue out of thousands of owners, there would be ZERO issues, which is our goal. There were no more than 6 springs that were wound backwards. Again, in 35+ years, not so bad considering we make all our springs in house but ZERO would be better.

In closing, I know each and every stove company management person. Believe it or not, we all get along, especially when you're the one picking up the tab. But we share our issues and based upon this, I am 100% we are doing just fine....but we always wish to do better!

 

[JA600L]

Question for BKVP. Is there any advantage to rich lean pulsing of air/fuel to a woodstove cat?

I've always wondered about this because in the automotive field cats receive rich lean pulses to aid in their efficiency. I've always been curious....

 

[jetsam]

Question for BKVP. Is there any advantage to rich lean pulsing of air/fuel to a woodstove cat?

I've always wondered about this because in the automotive field cats receive rich lean pulses to aid in their efficiency. I've always been curious....

If you're going to put a computer in my woodstove, I want it to regulate input air based on room temperature, target temperature, and cat temperature.... and I want it to save log data so I can graph outputs from its many various sensors!

It should also feature a lithium battery that can run the computer for a day or so, and an integral thermoelectric generator to keep the battery topped up and run the stove fan.

Also little arms and legs so it can run get its own wood, if that's not too much trouble.

 

[BKVP]

Question for BKVP. Is there any advantage to rich lean pulsing of air/fuel to a woodstove cat?

I've always wondered about this because in the automotive field cats receive rich lean pulses to aid in their efficiency. I've always been curious....

What's the flow rate in automotive applications? I would think the O2 feeds data to ECM and does this automatically .

 

[webby3650]

No, no, and no.

I wouldn't be posting the question if I had made up the mind ( "...terrible thing to waste." ).

All manufacturers of anything of quality like cars, SmartFons, spend $$$ , testing and research $$$ to go to market, it's business. VC did it way back and failed under a not too bright series of owners. Jotul did it when they dropped their cat, and were successful in the successive line of non cats. It's the cost of business. Woodstock took years and $$$ to go to market and succeeded in their direct selling model. BTW: forcing a consumer to deal ONLY with dealers is not always the better approach. Some dealers just want to sell, not service whether stoves, cars, chainsaws, etc.....

The coil thermostat with a cat is basic engineering; not complicated. It's not nuclear science, or the genomic basics of cancer.

I am impressed that the BKVP is on this open, informative forum with equally impressive responses to problems. Damn, that is not common. Congrads!!

Maybe you should just buy a VC then? They'd love to have a customer!

 

[tarzan]

Maybe you should just buy a VC then? They'd love to have a customer!

It IS a beautiful stove + DUMF lives in Vermont!

A Defiant would be a match made in heaven IMHO!

And cheaper than a BK.

Win, Win!

DUMF could call the owners about pricing issues but the company would likely change hands while he was on hold lol

 

[JA600L]

https://www.discountconverter.com/tech-tips/news_page.cfm?Key=catalytic_converter-&News=218

 

[Woody Stover]

Only recently has another cat stove begun to come close and that brand is relatively obscure for now

Hmmm, do tell! I'm not married to the Woodstocks...always looking for more quality products.

I don't buy a stove by weight. That's silly. List the things important in a stove purchase and weight should not be there. Durability should be on the list

That's what I wonder about; Why does BK feel that the thinner fire box sides are adequate over the long haul, when other companies don't seem to think so? Do the BKs run that much cooler, or what is the reasoning there? Now, BKVP said previously that they have 1/4" for the top of the box, and that's gonna get hot before the sides do....

I was recently looking into new pe stoves and the t5 or t6 I was liking each cost well over 3000$.

Well, those are cast iron jacketed stoves...

Let's just call it as it is, since we see shipping costs most often quoted around $700, if you live any distance from the Woodstock factory. Woodstock PH = $3800, BK Princess = $2750....why does DUMF keep asking the cost question, over and over?

Maybe it's because he has been given these bogus quotes, over and over. You are comparing two stoves of different construction, materials and assembly difficulty. You need to compare stoves of the same plate-steel construction, like the BKs and the Woodstock steel stoves. Then you have to ask, how can the Woodstock steels come in so much lower, with more steel used, a hybrid combustion system, grated ash system, front and rear venting, and on and on?

From what you've seen? You must have ESP.

OK, from what others have seen on their BKs and reported, and from what I've seen in the manuals.
To conclude, my purpose has not been to trash the BKs, as some here seem to think. I've just got what I feel are legitimate questions about the stoves, and have so far been asking the questions without getting a lot of satisfying answers.

Maybe dumf stands for....? I kid I kid.

Uh oh, let's not turn this into an assault on screen names....you would be a sitting duck.

 

[webby3650]

I agree, no need to be mean here...

The Ideal steel is cheaper, who knows why? They do have less people with their hands on it, no dealer network, not available in Canada, not mobile home approved(I assume this). Each and every thing it's approved for means more money was spent on testing.

To be fair, I believe the OP kept comparing the BK's to the Progress Hybrid, not the IS.

 

[Woody Stover]

not mobile home approved(I assume this).

Au contraire...

 

[BKVP]

Hmmm, do tell! I'm not married to the Woodstocks...always looking for more quality products.
That's what I wonder about; Why does BK feel that the thinner fire box sides are adequate over the long haul, when other companies don't seem to think so? Do the BKs run that much cooler, or what is the reasoning there? Now, BKVP said previously that they have 1/4" for the top of the box, and that's gonna get hot before the sides do....
Well, those are cast iron jacketed stoves...
Maybe it's because he has been given these bogus quotes, over and over. You are comparing two stoves of different construction, materials and assembly difficulty. You need to compare stoves of the same plate-steel construction, like the BKs and the Woodstock steel stoves. Then you have to ask, how can the Woodstock steels come in so much lower, with more steel used, a hybrid combustion system, grated ash system, front and rear venting, and on and on?
OK, from what others have seen on their BKs and reported, and from what I've seen in the manuals.
To conclude, my purpose has not been to trash the BKs, as some here seem to think. I've just got what I feel are legitimate questions about the stoves, and have so far been asking the questions without getting a lot of satisfying answers.
Uh oh, let's not turn this into an assault on screen names....you would be a sitting duck.

Woody,

Stick your head inside one. Interior baffles protect outter steel. If the designs were problematic, I bet we would not be in business.

The bypass is 1/2" steel. That sir is the weak point in most cat stoves. Thermocouple the parts, the build to maximum potential exposures.

Next question please.

 

[Woody Stover]

The Blaze king King is 460lbs according to their brochure.
The Ideal Steel is 620lbs.

On their website, I'm seeing 435 for both the Princess and the King...doesn't seem possible.

View attachment 189368

Hickory-smoked 'corn outta the big honker? Yum!

 

[Babaganoosh]

I said I kid I kid... I was just playing.

Why can't we get an IS with a BK thermostat ? That's what I want!

Woodstock isn't going for the longest, steadiest burn though. They are going for the cleanest.

I'd still love to see a combination. An ISBK hybrid hybrid!

 

[Highbeam]

I said I kid I kid... I was just playing.

Why can't we get an IS with a BK thermostat ? That's what I want!

Woodstock isn't going for the longest, steadiest burn though. They are going for the cleanest.

I'd still love to see a combination. An ISBK hybrid hybrid!

The manufacturer doesn't say so but users are getting some very respectable burntimes from the IS. It's too ugly for us though, and I own an ugly princess!

 

[JA600L]

It would be awesome to have a get together in the summer where we put together a display of blaze kings line next to woodstock's. Then we would have a better comparison of the two.

I think we are all just very curious. If I were ever to jump ship and go to Blaze King I would consider the King. It's a basement install with 7x11 tiles. I've got a liner in it but could pull it out.

The Princess (in my opinion based on my climate) would be a down grade from what I have. The king would definitely be an upgrade no doubt about it. Every once in a while we get enough cold here in PA where I need that Ideal Steel to run full tilt (and it does the job). Or I just fire up the backup Quadra fire. I'm almost certain I would be disappointed in the Princess during those times.

 

[DUMF]

Maybe dumf stands for dumb mother f'er?

I kid I kid...

BINGO BABA ! You win nothing.

I am impressed with BKVP's comments unlike some who have to get ad hominum ( look it up ).
For those of us with less thin skin and years of wood heating experience, it's not the brand enthusiasm that we need, just the facts. Thank you BKVP for your professional approach to real world intelligence.

NO, a VC product is not on the list. Cute and silly. The O.P. is about cat products and the problems with a well regarded stove line like BK....nothing else.

Popcorn please Bartholemew ? End.

 

[kennyp2339]

It would be awesome to have a get together in the summer where we put together a display of blaze kings line next to woodstock's

There is a thread here were a guy bought a new BK for his moms house next door, he currently runs a IS , I'm sure we are just waiting for the cold air to arrive then the reviews will come in.

 

[lsucet]

There is a thread here were a guy bought a new BK for his moms house next door, he currently runs a IS , I'm sure we are just waiting for the cold air to arrive then the reviews will come in.

The thread is AM I A TRAITOR?
and he has the PROGRESS if we talking about the same thread.

If so there is no activity for awhile on that thread.

 

[Ashful]

I bought my princess ultra, fully loaded, all options, for under 3000$ at my local dealer for full price.

My Ashfords were $2750 each, delivered to my hearth.

 

[JA600L]

There is a thread here were a guy bought a new BK for his moms house next door, he currently runs a IS , I'm sure we are just waiting for the cold air to arrive then the reviews will come in.

I'm just going by the specs on both stoves website.
Progress Hybrid-. 80,000 BTU output.
Ideal Steel-. 13,017-60,530 BTU output.
Absolute Steel-. 10,000-48,000 BTU output.
Princess-. 13,612-40,836 BTU output.
King-. 15,475-51,582 BTU output.

I'm assuming that this is the maximum output that the stove can deliver before the smoke starts to slip its emission components. I'm not ragging on any of these models. They are what they are. These are the performance specs that they give us. Everybody has different needs.

 

[Ashful]

I said I kid I kid... I was just playing.

Why can't we get an IS with a BK thermostat ? That's what I want!

Woodstock isn't going for the longest, steadiest burn though. They are going for the cleanest.

I'd still love to see a combination. An ISBK hybrid hybrid!

I see the ultra-long burn times as a bonus side effect of having a thermostat. The primary advantage of the thermostat is that it automatically increases air as the fire is waning, to keep heat output even through the burn.

Nothing is more frustrating to me than having the house warm all day while we're away at work, and then cooling in the hour or two just before we get home. That's how life was with my Jotuls.

 

[kennyp2339]

Yes that's the one, thank you for correcting me