can any of you suggest an efficient way of capturing the heat from a stove in the basement and directing it evenly to the floors above it? stove placement is on opposite end of house as the kitchen, i would like to have a cozy kitchen and my sons room is directly above the kitchen. are floor vents good enough or can a stainless steel hood placed over the stove help direct it? my house is approx 1400 sq ft with the a nice sized 1st floor and smaller bedrooms on the second. i figure that if i can effectively heat the first floor from the basement that a few well placed floor vent in the second floor would take care of heating the second. any ideas or pictures of setups would be great. thanks!
directing heat from the basement?
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Swedishchef
Minister of Fire
Some people do install those famous hood vents over the stove. I won't be doing that: it ruins the look of the stove if it is in a basement room that is used (which mine is).
I believe that there is an SBI stove that has a kit you can buy for it that has 2 ducks. In essence, the blower pushes hot air through the ducts to the vents.
We would need to see a setup of your house to get advice.
Personally, my stove is in my basement and installing some strategically placed vents will be my fall project. I will aslo ensure that there are fire dampers in them for safety reasons. Some inspectors (most) don't like big gaping holes that allow fire to spread (nor do I!).
Using fans can also help in the stairwell. But again, some pictures would be needed.
Andrew
I believe that there is an SBI stove that has a kit you can buy for it that has 2 ducks. In essence, the blower pushes hot air through the ducts to the vents.
We would need to see a setup of your house to get advice.
Personally, my stove is in my basement and installing some strategically placed vents will be my fall project. I will aslo ensure that there are fire dampers in them for safety reasons. Some inspectors (most) don't like big gaping holes that allow fire to spread (nor do I!).
Using fans can also help in the stairwell. But again, some pictures would be needed.
Andrew
As Andrew said, if floor vents are installed make sure they are fused fire dampers.
If a hot air vent is cut an equal amount of cold air returns need to be installed. What sometimes works is having a fan on the cold air ducts push down. The hot air wants to come up but is less dense so it works better making the heavier cold air displace the lighter hot air.
A lot of this come from location and insulation. My stove is in my basement and heats my house well. Basement will be 80's rooms directly above the stove and stairwell will be 70's, and the rooms on the far side of the house from the stove and stairwell will be 60's. For me, those are bedrooms so it's perfect sleeping.
My stove is right next to the stairwell which helps me out. The stairwell leads to a foyer with a ceiling fan which helps spread the heat in the adjoining kitchen, living room and dining room. Also, my basement is only 1/2 concrete as it's a walk out basement. So having concrete up 3.5 feet and the rest being insulated stud wall helps keep the concrete from soaking up lots of my heat.
You may benefit from simply taking a fan and directing it at the bottom of the stair well and blowing air down from the top.
pen
pen
If a hot air vent is cut an equal amount of cold air returns need to be installed. What sometimes works is having a fan on the cold air ducts push down. The hot air wants to come up but is less dense so it works better making the heavier cold air displace the lighter hot air.
A lot of this come from location and insulation. My stove is in my basement and heats my house well. Basement will be 80's rooms directly above the stove and stairwell will be 70's, and the rooms on the far side of the house from the stove and stairwell will be 60's. For me, those are bedrooms so it's perfect sleeping.
My stove is right next to the stairwell which helps me out. The stairwell leads to a foyer with a ceiling fan which helps spread the heat in the adjoining kitchen, living room and dining room. Also, my basement is only 1/2 concrete as it's a walk out basement. So having concrete up 3.5 feet and the rest being insulated stud wall helps keep the concrete from soaking up lots of my heat.
You may benefit from simply taking a fan and directing it at the bottom of the stair well and blowing air down from the top.
pen
pen
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
I have to step in here with the ghost of Elk (old timers may know what I mean)....
I think, and think is the key word, that it is against most all building codes to cut grates in the floor of a basement in order to let heat escape upstairs. It is also against code to put the receiving end of such outlets (or, in fact, any return to a heating system) within spitting distance (6-10 feet) of a stove......
I don't have the specific code references, but I believe there are two parts to this....one involves the fact that a basement is not part of a house living space (officially) and therefore must be closed off for fire, etc.
The other involves smoke and CO, etc...that is, a vent or return which can suck up heat....can also suck up smoke of Carbon Monoxide.
Carry on.......
FYI, If I was going to do something like this, I would first determine that there really was vast amounts of extra heat to be captured. If the purpose of the stove downstairs was to heat the upstairs, I would buy a furnace or a boiler which is designed to move the heat elsewhere. If, however, I had a finished basement with a oversized stoves I would confirm that this was the case by checking the temp at the ceiling while the stove was running on a very cold day. If it was 80-82 degrees plus, and I didn't need the heat in the basement, I could consider a through the floor vent with a fan which worked on a switch or a thermostat. For those with fire concerns, you might even be able to find one with a fire damper in it or that one could be adapted for.
I think, and think is the key word, that it is against most all building codes to cut grates in the floor of a basement in order to let heat escape upstairs. It is also against code to put the receiving end of such outlets (or, in fact, any return to a heating system) within spitting distance (6-10 feet) of a stove......
I don't have the specific code references, but I believe there are two parts to this....one involves the fact that a basement is not part of a house living space (officially) and therefore must be closed off for fire, etc.
The other involves smoke and CO, etc...that is, a vent or return which can suck up heat....can also suck up smoke of Carbon Monoxide.
Carry on.......
FYI, If I was going to do something like this, I would first determine that there really was vast amounts of extra heat to be captured. If the purpose of the stove downstairs was to heat the upstairs, I would buy a furnace or a boiler which is designed to move the heat elsewhere. If, however, I had a finished basement with a oversized stoves I would confirm that this was the case by checking the temp at the ceiling while the stove was running on a very cold day. If it was 80-82 degrees plus, and I didn't need the heat in the basement, I could consider a through the floor vent with a fan which worked on a switch or a thermostat. For those with fire concerns, you might even be able to find one with a fire damper in it or that one could be adapted for.
my original plan was to install a furnace but the cost of the furnace and duct work was way over my budget. also i realized there were major safety concerns with duct work clearances which would force me to hire someone to do it and that would require even more money. i am getting very discouraged but i will figure something out that is safe and warm. i may end up with a fireplace insert and a new stove in my backroom. i want my house to be warm but safety is first. i didnt think that installing vents in the floors would not be up to code.
Swedishchef
Minister of Fire
Hey guys
Not to go against one thing that Craig said but I gotta give my 2 cents.
Basements, once upon a time, were not considered part of living space. They had dirt basements and were not finsihed. Times have changed and now they are considered living spaces, great ones at that.
I believe you can add registers/grates. However, codes mu be followed and those vary from place to place.
Staircases in houses are the biggest gaping holes of any floor. Yet there is no requirement to have a fireproof door at the top or the bottom to prevent fire from spreading.
Here is a great link to a forum that discusses the same topic (regarding code). Most people believe that there is no problem with cutting holes in the floor. It also depends if the ceiling below is finished or not.
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_...n/11122-open-circulation-floor-registers.html
However, Craig is right. A furnace would be more efficient. Some Drolet wood stoves have a duct kit that you can connect the stove to. One end is the stove and it goes to 2 floor grates above.
Considering the fact that I am thinking of doing the same thing, some comments suggesting that it would not work are making me think twice about it...
I will be calling a building technician (friend) and a provincial building code expert next week.
Andrew
Not to go against one thing that Craig said but I gotta give my 2 cents.
Basements, once upon a time, were not considered part of living space. They had dirt basements and were not finsihed. Times have changed and now they are considered living spaces, great ones at that.
I believe you can add registers/grates. However, codes mu be followed and those vary from place to place.
Staircases in houses are the biggest gaping holes of any floor. Yet there is no requirement to have a fireproof door at the top or the bottom to prevent fire from spreading.
Here is a great link to a forum that discusses the same topic (regarding code). Most people believe that there is no problem with cutting holes in the floor. It also depends if the ceiling below is finished or not.
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_...n/11122-open-circulation-floor-registers.html
However, Craig is right. A furnace would be more efficient. Some Drolet wood stoves have a duct kit that you can connect the stove to. One end is the stove and it goes to 2 floor grates above.
Considering the fact that I am thinking of doing the same thing, some comments suggesting that it would not work are making me think twice about it...
I will be calling a building technician (friend) and a provincial building code expert next week.
Andrew
Craig has it correct I think. This gets discussed at least 10 times a year it seems. If I recall, the 10ft distance from a return duct rule is part of NFPA 211 and the floor penetration is part of the IBC. Floor penetrations can be made safely if the registers have fusible link dampers that automatically spring closed if the link is melted.
Mike, I wouldn't get discouraged, at least it looks like you have options. A fireplace insert, stove in the back room, or basement.
The key thing here is that you asked for "an efficient way". A wood stove is an area heater. As soon as the stove is placed in another area, there is some reduction of heating efficiency. Add cooler basement walls sucking out the heat, fans for moving heat, etc. and efficiency starts going way down. You may be able to heat from the basement, but it will not be as efficient as moving the heat to the first floor. If the basement walls are not insulated expect about a 30% loss of heat to the basement walls and earth surrounding the foundation.
One option not discussed, if the basement location is strongly desired, what about putting the stove under the kitchen and near the staircase? That would at least maximize the convection of heat to upstairs.
Mike, I wouldn't get discouraged, at least it looks like you have options. A fireplace insert, stove in the back room, or basement.
The key thing here is that you asked for "an efficient way". A wood stove is an area heater. As soon as the stove is placed in another area, there is some reduction of heating efficiency. Add cooler basement walls sucking out the heat, fans for moving heat, etc. and efficiency starts going way down. You may be able to heat from the basement, but it will not be as efficient as moving the heat to the first floor. If the basement walls are not insulated expect about a 30% loss of heat to the basement walls and earth surrounding the foundation.
One option not discussed, if the basement location is strongly desired, what about putting the stove under the kitchen and near the staircase? That would at least maximize the convection of heat to upstairs.
BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
laynes69
Minister of Fire
I know we talked about some furnaces before in a different forum. One furnace that I forgot about is the mini-caddy. Its EPA Certified, and is made for smaller homes. There is a plenum package that can house 5 or 6 ducts off the plenum. This wouldn't be difficult to duct, and you could place them where needed. I think some of the other furnaces you were looking at were too large. There are other furnaces that would fall within your budger also. The Englaner 28-3500 is a budget friendly furnace, but may be too large for the home. I also don't know if it can be installed as a stand alone with a plenum due to the btus it produces. Also usstove has some furnaces like the 1300 hotblast, but they are terrible on efficiency. I would see if there are any dealers around and see if there are prices for the mini caddy. It would allow you to do what you want, but may fall on the high side of your budget.
http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=16&Id=374
http://www.englanderstoves.com/28-3500.html
https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=307&product_id=483
http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=16&Id=374
http://www.englanderstoves.com/28-3500.html
https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=307&product_id=483
The topic of floor registers comes down to local building codes IMHO. I read the local codes at one point and dbl checked with an hvac co. to confirm that in my area, registers are legal, so long as: if the basement cieling is unfinished - there are basically no restrictions, a register can be put anywhere with the exception of within 6 ft of the stove downstairs. If the basement cieling is finished the register must have a metal duct between floors, and a fusible damper is recommended.
Our basement is finished and insulated, but the cieling is a dropped cieling, so I removed most of the tiles around the stove to allow convection heat to rise up through the floor. I also made 2 cutouts, 1 closer to the stove (but more than 6 ft away, the other near the LR windows. For about a year we were running a small vent fan pulling hot air up from the register nearer the stove. This seemed to work fairly well and it along with the removal of the baement cieling tiles seemed to keep the main floor nice and warm. We have since installed an insert in our main floor living room and have nooo problem keeping the house warm. Don't really use the stove downstairs much, except when the temps are gping down below -30C
Bottom line, if you are thinking about registers, check your local building codes carefully.
Our basement is finished and insulated, but the cieling is a dropped cieling, so I removed most of the tiles around the stove to allow convection heat to rise up through the floor. I also made 2 cutouts, 1 closer to the stove (but more than 6 ft away, the other near the LR windows. For about a year we were running a small vent fan pulling hot air up from the register nearer the stove. This seemed to work fairly well and it along with the removal of the baement cieling tiles seemed to keep the main floor nice and warm. We have since installed an insert in our main floor living room and have nooo problem keeping the house warm. Don't really use the stove downstairs much, except when the temps are gping down below -30C
Bottom line, if you are thinking about registers, check your local building codes carefully.
mike8937 said:
Putting all the code issues aside (not that they aren't important), I think your going to have a real, real hard time getting heat up to the 3rd floor no matter what you do. This is from a guy who struggles heating a ranch house from the basement with some vents and whatnot. I live in a pretty moderate heating zone, fairly well insulated house, and have a BKK that I run the b@lls off of, and still need help from the furnace when it gets below 10*.
I think the expectation that you can heat 3 levels is probably unreasonable, no offense. They may be some out there who can, but for every 1 guy who does, there are probably 20 or more who can't.
Best of luck. I hope you are able to make it work, but think the deck is stacked against you on this one.
i may have to up the budget and go with something like the mini caddy form my main source of heat and run the fireplace and other stove when temps call for it. i read the install manual for the mini caddy and i think i have the clearence available to install this one. i just hate spending so much of my hard earned cash all at once but i know it will pay for itself in the long run. i would rather spend 5 grand on a wood furnace over spending the money to fill the oil tanks.from what everyone has said, the floor vents dont help much to begin with so i need to just bite the bullet and get a furnace. i hope the mini caddy will provide enough heat. i looked at us stove and the other cheap ones and they seem like a waste of my money, maybe im wrong
laynes69
Minister of Fire
Here is a heat loss calculator. Try to keep things as accurate as possible. Then play around with the infiltration levels. This should give you a rough idea on your heat loss. From there size whatever unit you are looking at based on average output. When I used this tool, it's pretty accurate for the outputs of our wood furnace. I haven't seen the mini caddy in person, but it sounds like it will be close. I have the Caddy and I think it would be too much for 1400 sq ft. Sized right, you won't need another wood stove or fireplace going to heat the house. If you need ductwork, sometimes you can find it cheap on craigslist.
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/HeatLoss/HeatLoss.htm
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/HeatLoss/HeatLoss.htm
i had my mind set on the mini caddy untill i found out i dont have the room in my basement to install it. this unit requires 66 inches of hieght and i only have 62. yet another hurdle. i am concidering still going with the mini caddy but installing it in my back room but then routing the ducts becomes more complicated. i still want to route some of the heat to the basement, im not sure if running ducts down below the furnace is a good idea or not. im hoping i can find a friend who has a friend that knows hvac to do the duct work or at least walk me thru it. i really dont know what to do at this point. if the mini caddy would work in the basement it would be a done deal.
remkel
Minister of Fire
I just let the heat rise up the basement stairway and then move it with fans once it is upstairs....nothing too crazy here.
weatherguy
Minister of Fire
My BIL has the Englander heating his 2000+/-sf house from the basement, he has one duct connected to the top that goes into the the living room in the middle of his house and it heats it no problem, he has an open floor plan but his basement is unfinished so he loses some heat there.
http://www.englanderstoves.com/28-3500-lg.html
http://www.englanderstoves.com/28-3500-lg.html
i think for now i am just going to buy a new epa stove for the back room. i am currently looking at the lopi republic and the enviro kodiak 1700. both seem nice. i like the slightly bigger firebox of the kodiak, i cut my wood at 18'' which is the max log size of the lopi. 18'' logs stack well too. im not sure if .3 cuft would make a world of a difference but i never like the idea of jamming every last inch of wood i can into a stove. knowing the cost difference would probably make my mind up quick. i still need to do some comparing of build quality. the lopi puts out less emissions, it seems to be one of the lowest available. im still searching other manufactures. i wish companies would atleast put an msrp on their products. if you guys have any input to either of these stoves or other let me know.
Dune
Minister of Fire
The second thing I would do is put cold air return ducts from the coldest rooms into the basement.
Use inductor fans if you want it to do anything.
The first thing I would do is insulate the basement walls or not bother with the stove in the basement.
Use inductor fans if you want it to do anything.
The first thing I would do is insulate the basement walls or not bother with the stove in the basement.
remkel
Minister of Fire
Link for the Jotul 500 manual http://www.jotul.com/FileArchive/Te...ul F 500 Oslo/Manual_F_500_USA_P15_310111.pdf
I takes a moment to load (I had to go to the fridge, grab a beer, and come back for it to be up) I don't know why, but for some reason the Jotul manuals always make it look like my browser is hung up, PDF's usually don't give me that problem but these do for whatever reason.
pen
I takes a moment to load (I had to go to the fridge, grab a beer, and come back for it to be up) I don't know why, but for some reason the Jotul manuals always make it look like my browser is hung up, PDF's usually don't give me that problem but these do for whatever reason.
pen
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