Do I need an insulated liner for a Regency ci2700 insert?

[Baudi]

I just purchased a Regency ci2700 wood stove insert. I was charged $700 for a 25 foot, 6 inch liner, 16"x16" plate, and cap. My installation is scheduled for next week. While setting up the install, I asked if the liner was insulated and the installer informed me it wasn't and that an insulated liner would be a lot more expensive and he doesn't typically recommend them for installations like mine in New Jersey. I currently have a stone/masonry fireplace with a 12" round clay flue liner and the chimney is on an interior wall.

I checked the installation manual and it says:

"In the U.S.A., a 5.5 inch (140 mm) or 6 inch (152 mm) diameter, stainless steel, full-height chimney liner that meets type HT (2100F) requirements per UL 1777 must be installed. The full liner must be attached to the insert flue collar and to the top of the existing masonry chimney. "

I don't know the manufacturer of the liner they're going to install so I'm not sure if it's rated up to 2100F. Should I insist on the use of an insulated liner?

 

[begreen]

The requirement for insulating the liner is not based on location or climate zone. It is based on code requirements for chimney clearance to combustibles. An interior chimney requires 2" clearance all the way up. An exterior chimney requires 1" clearance. Insulated or not, the liner should be specific for solid fuel burning. Normally insulating the liner adds about $300 to the cost of installation in a large flue if there are no complications.
Will they be doing a complete cleaning of the current chimney clay liner and fireplace before installation?

 

[Baudi]

The requirement for insulating the liner is not based on location or climate zone. It is based on code requirements for chimney clearance to combustibles. An interior chimney requires 2" clearance all the way up. An exterior chimney requires 1" clearance. Insulated or not, the liner should be specific for solid fuel burning. Normally insulating the liner adds about $300 to the cost of installation in a large flue if there are no complications.
Will they be doing a complete cleaning of the current chimney clay liner and fireplace before installation?

Thanks! Yes, they confirmed they'd be doing a full cleaning of the fireplace and chimney before installing the insert and liner.

 

[bholler]

Yes you should insist on it being insulated you have plenty of room for it. It is most likely required by code. And it will make the whole system safer and perform better.

 

[Baudi]

That seems to be the consensus on most of the posts I'm reading. Is there a particular brand of insulated liner that you recommend? The installer said it would be a lot more expensive but from what I'm seeing most of the pre-insulated liners are only a few hundred dollars more than the uninsulated ones the same size.

 

[bholler]

That seems to be the consensus on most of the posts I'm reading. Is there a particular brand of insulated liner that you recommend? The installer said it would be a lot more expensive but from what I'm seeing most of the pre-insulated liners are only a few hundred dollars more than the uninsulated ones the same size.

I generally just wrap uninsulated liners myself.

 

[kborndale]

With a 12" flue there is no reason an insulated liner should be a lot more expensive as there is ample room to fit it in.

 

[begreen]

That seems to be the consensus on most of the posts I'm reading. Is there a particular brand of insulated liner that you recommend? The installer said it would be a lot more expensive but from what I'm seeing most of the pre-insulated liners are only a few hundred dollars more than the uninsulated ones the same size.

Your best bet is to get a medium or heavy-duty liner that is wrapped on-site. Avoid 2 ply liners that claim to be heavier.

 

[Baudi]

Your best bet is to get a medium or heavy-duty liner that is wrapped on-site. Avoid 2 ply liners that claim to be heavier.

I spoke with the store where I bought the stove and liner kit today and asked their thoughts on insulated liner vs. uninsulated. They agreed with the installer, saying since it's a stone/masonry chimney, on an interior wall with an existing clay liner that is in good shape that they don't typically recommend insulation. The store owner said that since the top of the chimney will be sealed at the new plate and the bottom will be sealed around the stove that the inside of the chimney will stay relatively warm and I'm not gaining much by insulating it.

I looked up the wrap kits like this one: https://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf...tQuGbh12lIfsaAkQfEALw_wcB&refnum=May-027-4487

For $355, I'm still thinking it might be worth it to buy one and either wrap the liner myself or ask the installer how much more he would charge to wrap it for me. I watched some videos about wrapping it and it seems very straight forward.

 

[mellow]

Wrapping it isn't that hard, the hardest part is getting it down a tight chimney which you won't have an issue with. With 2 people it should take maybe 20-30 minutes with taping it and putting the chicken wire on.

Wear gloves and wear a mask if you do it, that spray glue is no joke.

 

[bholler]

I spoke with the store where I bought the stove and liner kit today and asked their thoughts on insulated liner vs. uninsulated. They agreed with the installer, saying since it's a stone/masonry chimney, on an interior wall with an existing clay liner that is in good shape that they don't typically recommend insulation. The store owner said that since the top of the chimney will be sealed at the new plate and the bottom will be sealed around the stove that the inside of the chimney will stay relatively warm and I'm not gaining much by insulating it.

I looked up the wrap kits like this one: https://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf...tQuGbh12lIfsaAkQfEALw_wcB&refnum=May-027-4487

For $355, I'm still thinking it might be worth it to buy one and either wrap the liner myself or ask the installer how much more he would charge to wrap it for me. I watched some videos about wrapping it and it seems very straight forward.

Did they inspect your chimney to see if it has the required 2" clearance to combustibles from the outside of the masonry structure to combustible materials? If so how did they verify that in hidden areas? Did they verify that the throat of the fireplace has the proper thickness of masonry?

If they didn't do these things they have no clue if your liner needs insulation and they clearly either don't care about code or don't know it. That also means they really don't care about your safety

 

[Baudi]

Did they inspect your chimney to see if it has the required 2" clearance to combustibles from the outside of the masonry structure to combustible materials? If so how did they verify that in hidden areas? Did they verify that the throat of the fireplace has the proper thickness of masonry?

If they didn't do these things they have no clue if your liner needs insulation and they clearly either don't care about code or don't know it. That also means they really don't care about your safety

The store owners haven’t seen the chimney at all. They’re just going by the measurements provided by the installer. Here are some pictures to give some context.

 

[bholler]

The store owners haven’t seen the chimney at all. They’re just going by the measurements provided by the installer. Here are some pictures to give some context.

View attachment 295338 View attachment 295339

Yeah you clearly don't have the required clearances meaning insulation is required by code for safety reasons

 

[Baudi]

Yeah you clearly don't have the required clearances meaning insulation is required by code for safety reasons

Just so I understand which part is the clearance not enough?

 

[bholler]

Just so I understand which part is the clearance not enough?

The wood touching the masonry structure

 

[Baudi]

The wood touching the masonry structure.

Alright so I ordered a 1/2” wrap kit to apply the liner. I’m curious though, what would a house that was up to code look like? Do you have to frame around the masonry with metal studs? What about exterior? I would assume any house with siding wouldn’t be to code.

 

[begreen]

A trim filler is allowed on an exterior chimney to bridge the 1" gap to the siding. On an interior chimney, it takes visual exposure. We had a decommissioned oil furnace chimney in our house that was installed long after it was built. I couldn't tell until I removed the chimney, but it had the required 2" gap all the way up through 2 floors to the roof.

 

[Baudi]

A trim filler is allowed on an exterior chimney to bridge the 1" gap to the siding. On an interior chimney, it takes visual exposure. We had a decommissioned oil furnace chimney in our house that was installed long after it was built. I couldn't tell until I removed the chimney, but it had the required 2" gap all the way up through 2 floors to the roof.

Thanks, I’m just just curious, does the same code regarding a 2 inch gap apply to masonry chimneys using an open fireplace instead of a wood stove insert and metal liner? For example, I’ve been burning fires in the open fireplace with the clay liner for years. As it’s currently set up, is that against code and I really should have a 2 inch gap between the masonry and combustibles?

 

[bholler]

Thanks, I’m just just curious, does the same code regarding a 2 inch gap apply to masonry chimneys using an open fireplace instead of a wood stove insert and metal liner? For example, I’ve been burning fires in the open fireplace with the clay liner for years. As it’s currently set up, is that against code and I really should have a 2 inch gap between the masonry and combustibles?

Yes that code applies to any masonry chimney with a solid fuel burning appliance running through it. Your chimney did not meet code as is for an open fireplace. Now that you are installing a stove and liner you are required to bring it up to modern code

 

[Torgul83]

I'm also in your part of the USA (westchester NY). If code doesn't require it and you are in an interior wall, you really don't need it. In fact, it can increase your draft, effecting burn times. Just a thought.

 

[bholler]

I'm also in your part of the USA (westchester NY). If code doesn't require it and you are in an interior wall, you really don't need it. In fact, it can increase your draft, effecting burn times. Just a thought.

But code does require it. And the increase in overall draft will be very minimal. But draft will gain strength much faster and die off slower with insulation. There is no benifit other than a little cost savings to leaving insulation off.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Just insulate. You won’t regret it and it would be way more expensive to go back to pull liner if you change your mind.

 

[Baudi]

Just insulate. You won’t regret it and it would be way more expensive to go back to pull liner if you change your mind.

Exactly, I bought an insulation wrap kit and called my installer today to tell him I’d like him to put it on when he does my install next week. I’m the type of person who obsesses over chit and it would drive me crazy if I didn’t do it. I would constantly be questioning if performance would be better with insulation and I’d be stuck paying more to have it removed and insulated if I changed my mind later.

 

[bholler]

Exactly, I bought an insulation wrap kit and called my installer today to tell him I’d like him to put it on when he does my install next week. I’m the type of person who obsesses over chit and it would drive me crazy if I didn’t do it. I would constantly be questioning if performance would be better with insulation and I’d be stuck paying more to have it removed and insulated if I changed my mind later.

Now the question is do they even know how to wrap a liner? Lol

 

[stoveliker]

I fixed your post.

......I would constantly be questioning if performance would be better with insulation and I’d be stuck paying more to have it removed and insulated if I decided later to do it correctly after all.