draft/creosote issue, insulation question, used stove quandary

[sbtcabman]

ok, I am back to the well. and I am really deep down the wood stove rabbit hole and may never be seen again.
I am trying to find a decent USED stove to heat a 1400sqft old stone house and replace the 30 gal redneck barrel which initially worked great but the flue pipe clogged lickety split after 1.5-2 cord of well seasoned, dry ash. clogged may be an understatement, hmmm, completely occluded? it is a 30ft flue through a large stone chimney with about a 10x14 opening as the old, broken, misaligned 1956 terra cotta flue tiles were removed.
before starting the burning man season in november, I had a new 6" Homesaver Roundflex stainless 304 installed in the old chimney flue but the bloke didn't insulate it. do ya think that was part of the clogging issue? I did throttle down the barrel at night and in the beginning got a 12 hour burn from it being stuffed. the draft began to diminish and two days ago there wasn't enough draft to light kindling and not smoke out the room.
I am getting it cleaned and scoped wednesday. why scoped? because the bloke forgot to initially install a damper, returned for "warranty work" and had his beefy 210 pound son who presses 400 pounds on the bench put a two by four at the collar and push it back up into the chimney 9" to create a spot for the damper. I know, I know. seems to be the way of the world these days, no common sense.
I wonder if it kinked and the scope will show that and further explain why the clogging. the bloke is not in the clean/scope phase for obvious reasons!
he is, however, willing to come back and fill the chimney with vermiculite next week.
and on a side note I will be getting a thermometer for the flue pipe just before it heads into unseen territory to aid in correct temp to avoid buildup of creosote.
ok, lots of meat at this table so let me slice off a couple questions:
~ do y'all think the hearthstone heritage 8021 is adequate and long lived? it sure as hell is real purty!
~ what is a used one in matte finish worth? (assuming components all good. used about 7 years it appears, in storage last 3)
~ is vermiculite or perlite better for insulating around the 6" stainless flue insert?
~ which is best
1) vermic/perl poured loose with a bottom plate and top plug? or
2) mixed 6 to 1 with portland? (I've seen 6 to 1 mentioned several times which I hope is correct ratio. I also understand the difficulty if removal required. ugh-ly)
~ will two elbows vs. one cause a serious impact on the draft?
~ what should the flue gas temp be just before it exits the hearth and heads up the chimney?
~ also considering a VC Vigilant or Defiant. do will they size well btu wise for the house?
~ anything else I am missing besides my brain which is lost in the rabbit hole?
thanks for the help! right now I am sucking propane at a pricey rate. 🥴
burn on!
peace, steve

 

[Woodsplitter67]

ok, I am back to the well. and I am really deep down the wood stove rabbit hole and may never be seen again.
I am trying to find a decent USED stove to heat a 1400sqft old stone house and replace the 30 gal redneck barrel which initially worked great but the flue pipe clogged lickety split after 1.5-2 cord of well seasoned, dry ash. clogged may be an understatement, hmmm, completely occluded? it is a 30ft flue through a large stone chimney with about a 10x14 opening as the old, broken, misaligned 1956 terra cotta flue tiles were removed.
before starting the burning man season in november, I had a new 6" Homesaver Roundflex stainless 304 installed in the old chimney flue but the bloke didn't insulate it. do ya think that was part of the clogging issue? I did throttle down the barrel at night and in the beginning got a 12 hour burn from it being stuffed. the draft began to diminish and two days ago there wasn't enough draft to light kindling and not smoke out the room.
I am getting it cleaned and scoped wednesday. why scoped? because the bloke forgot to initially install a damper, returned for "warranty work" and had his beefy 210 pound son who presses 400 pounds on the bench put a two by four at the collar and push it back up into the chimney 9" to create a spot for the damper. I know, I know. seems to be the way of the world these days, no common sense.
I wonder if it kinked and the scope will show that and further explain why the clogging. the bloke is not in the clean/scope phase for obvious reasons!
he is, however, willing to come back and fill the chimney with vermiculite next week.
and on a side note I will be getting a thermometer for the flue pipe just before it heads into unseen territory to aid in correct temp to avoid buildup of creosote.
ok, lots of meat at this table so let me slice off a couple questions:
~ do y'all think the hearthstone heritage 8021 is adequate and long lived? it sure as hell is real purty!
~ what is a used one in matte finish worth? (assuming components all good. used about 7 years it appears, in storage last 3)
~ is vermiculite or perlite better for insulating around the 6" stainless flue insert?
~ which is best
1) vermic/perl poured loose with a bottom plate and top plug? or
2) mixed 6 to 1 with portland? (I've seen 6 to 1 mentioned several times which I hope is correct ratio. I also understand the difficulty if removal required. ugh-ly)
~ will two elbows vs. one cause a serious impact on the draft?
~ what should the flue gas temp be just before it exits the hearth and heads up the chimney?
~ also considering a VC Vigilant or Defiant. do will they size well btu wise for the house?
~ anything else I am missing besides my brain which is lost in the rabbit hole?
thanks for the help! right now I am sucking propane at a pricey rate. 🥴
burn on!
peace, steve

so just a head up.. your going to make a tone of creosote, even with dry wood when you cut the air back. Your going to make creosote because a burn barrel has no secondaries to burn the smoke before it goes up the chimney. its late in the season so finding a stove may be hard.. you can get a new one a a big box store non cat for a k get 10 hour burns and not burn the house down..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

2.4 cuft 10 hour burn and under a k

 

[begreen]

If there is enough height, get a decent, clean burning new stove in the $1000- 1500 range. Look at Century, Drolet and Englander models.

As for the liner, how is he going to keep it centered all the way down so that there is an equal and even layer of the poured insulation all around the liner the full 30" length? If it touches the surrounding chimney brick at any point then the insulation is not much protection there.

 

[sbtcabman]

If there is enough height, get a decent, clean burning new stove in the $1000- 1500 range. Look at Century, Drolet and Englander models.

As for the liner, how is he going to keep it centered all the way down so that there is an equal and even layer of the poured insulation all around the liner the full 30" length? If it touches the surrounding chimney brick at any point then the insulation is not much protection there.

thanks BG, I will look at your suggestions. yes, that centering issue went thru my mind, or what's left; but being round even though it touches at least it will be somewhat insulated and even 50% trumps 0%. would really enjoy your feedback on the insulation types and methods purty please if you'd be so kind 😊

 

[sbtcabman]

2.4 cuft 10 hour burn and under a k

thanks splitter! I'll see if my local homer dumpo has one in the pantry 👍

 

[showrguy]

Steve,
I’m not gonna comment on your issues with the stove and search..
But I laughed my ass of reading your stories so far,,,, very funny and well described..
Now I am subscribed to this three so hopefully I won’t miss any well worded responses..
Thanks for the laugh…

 

[sbtcabman]

Steve,
I’m not gonna comment on your issues with the stove and search..
But I laughed my ass of reading your stories so far,,,, very funny and well described..
Now I am subscribed to this three so hopefully I won’t miss any well worded responses..
Thanks for the laugh…

I appreciate you coming out of the shower for me! no problem, who cares about any answers! your smile is worth a thousand words, whereas now, a picture tells a thousand lies. and as smokey the bear said, never buy flowers from a monk. only you can prevent florist friars! or was it elvis?

 

[showrguy]

Haaaa, ya done did it again !! Nice reply..

 

[EbS-P]

I think if I had to insulate and I thought I could pull the liner easy enough I would pull it out wrap it and reinstall. If it was difficult to install without insulation I’m not sure I would try it with insulation. I am happy with my Drolet.

Look at the soot eater rotary cleaner and see if you can install to clean Fromm the bottom.

 

[sbtcabman]

I think if I had to insulate and I thought I could pull the liner easy enough I would pull it out wrap it and reinstall. If it was difficult to install without insulation I’m not sure I would try it with insulation. I am happy with my Drolet.

Look at the soot eater rotary cleaner and see if you can install to clean Fromm the bottom.

not enough room for pipe wrap. drat. gall dang it. fitawhameepackawooma. bugger me!
of course if muscle man kinked the pipe ...... f-ugh-ly
back in the late 70s my buddy put in a 55 gallon drum, smooth wall flue liner and it creosoted up like a snotty nosed kid the first year. his mason then poured in loose fill vermiculite. barely any creosince (term of art). still the same barrel. 6-8 cord a year. so if the bloke is willing to fill mine, doesn't seem to be any downside? except maybe for the next owner. oops.
thanks for the drolet kudos!