Dueling Inserts

[Ozymandias]

Tonight, my wife and I visited Scott's shop. He was kind enough to set up the two stoves we are considering side-by-side. Both are very nice stoves and we likely couldn't go wrong with either. I like the look and surround of the Harman p52i more, but the flame of the M55 is so much nicer and looks more like a wood fire. Tough decision. I know you all like pictures. Here's the side by side and a picture of my mantle. We would go with black painted for either. Thanks for setting them both up Scott.


Ok and if anyone can tell me how to rotate images when posting from and attaching photos taken by my iPhone, it would be appreciated. Sorry they are inverted.

 

[2011 GT/CS]

But that keeps the ashes off of the fire. And I know the feeling. I had the same issue with using my iPad. I gave up on the pics I posted and deleted them till I figure it out. I even tried rotating the picture, saved it and posted it upside down. And the sob stayed that way

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

 

[Bioburner]

The Harman would go nice with the current mantel etc. IMO

 

[iron stove]

P52i a new model ?

 

[Ozymandias]

The Harman would go nice with the current mantel etc. IMO

Bioburner, I agree. The squared surround does work better, I think, that the rounded one of the Enviro. My wife loves the flame on the enviro a lot more (and I agree). It's less blow-torch like and more similar to a wood fire. I also need to see what the Harman prices out at with an OAK.

 

[Bioburner]

The flame may settle down after the Harman runs for awhile. Hard to judge a flame in the first half hour or so till the stove ESP meets the stoves heat needs and the pot fills with some ash that softens the flame. Scott maybe able to get you a log set.

 

[stayfitz]

Tonight, my wife and I visited Scott's shop. He was kind enough to set up the two stoves we are considering side-by-side. Both are very nice stoves and we likely couldn't go wrong with either. I like the look and surround of the Harman p52i more, but the flame of the M55 is so much nicer and looks more like a wood fire. Tough decision. I know you all like pictures. Here's the side by side and a picture of my mantle. We would go with black painted for either. Thanks for setting them both up Scott.

View attachment 111376 View attachment 111377
Ok and if anyone can tell me how to rotate images when posting from and attaching photos taken by my iPhone, it would be appreciated. Sorry they are inverted.

Wow... I wasn't aware of the P52i model until you referenced it. Thought it might have been a typo (P35i)? Both manufacturer's produce great stoves and provide great support. Is the Harman is more money?

 

[Ozymandias]

Wow... I wasn't aware of the P52i model until you referenced it. Thought it might have been a typo (P35i)? Both manufacturer's produce great stoves and provide great support. Is the Harman is more money?

Yup, new model. Couple of hundred dollar difference, although it sounds as though the Harman requires an expensive adapter to install an OAK. I'm waiting on a quote. Both nice looking stoves. I may try to photoshop the inserts into my mantle. I'm also wondering if I would be able to custom fabricate a square surround on the enviro from two of the side pieces.

The new Harman also has two convection fans allowing them to run at a slower RPM and reducing the noise when compared to the prior Accentra model. Also includes rollers making the 52i easier to clean.

 

[Bioburner]

Sounds like the old adage "You get what you pay for". Less noise and easier service with the Harman. How much is the difference worth to you?

 

[stayfitz]

Here's more info to confuse you -

M55
Larger viewing glass (but more cleaning too)
55K BTU (but no reference to lbs per hour?)
1.0 gr/hr particulate output (very good)
Cast iron and tubular heat exchanger

P52i
I think their BTU reference is incorrect... The max burn rate is 5 lbs per hour (8,600 x 5 = 43,000 BTU)
85% efficient (vs. 83.5%, but no real difference)
No published specs for particulate output (not sure why Harman does this?)
2 X smaller fans = less noise, but also one part motor to fail
64.5 lbs hopper (vs. 60 lbs M55)

Another to consider? - Quadra Fire Mt. Vernon - (broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/brochures/bro_PelletInsert.pdf)
(smaller hopper @ 47 lbs, but good product as well)

 

[Ozymandias]

Here's more info to confuse you -

M55
Larger viewing glass (but more cleaning too)
55K BTU (but no reference to lbs per hour?)
1.0 gr/hr particulate output (very good)
Cast iron and tubular heat exchanger

P52i
I think their BTU reference is incorrect... The max burn rate is 5 lbs per hour (8,600 x 5 = 43,000 BTU)
85% efficient (vs. 83.5%, but no real difference)
No published specs for particulate output (not sure why Harman does this?)
2 X smaller fans = less noise, but also one part motor to fail
64.5 lbs hopper (vs. 60 lbs M55)

Another to consider? - Quadra Fire Mt. Vernon - (broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/brochures/bro_PelletInsert.pdf)
(smaller hopper @ 47 lbs, but good product as well)

Stayfitz,

Thanks for taking the time to lay out these details. Very helpful. When I started looking, I did also consider the Mt. Vernon. It would have also been the cheapest for me to have installed by about $1000, but using the same line of thinking you did with the Harman (one more motor, one more part which can break), the Quad seemed like there was too much that could go wrong. Also, and I don't know if it is coincidence, but it seems as though many of the recent postings referencing stove start issues are Quads (certainly not a powered study, just an observation).

As your post illustrated, it would be nice if there was a standard performance report which manufacturers had to provide which made comparisons easier.

 

[stayfitz]

Stayfitz,

Thanks for taking the time to lay out these details. Very helpful. When I started looking, I did also consider the Mt. Vernon. It would have also been the cheapest for me to have installed by about $1000, but using the same line of thinking you did with the Harman (one more motor, one more part which can break), the Quad seemed like there was too much that could go wrong. Also, and I don't know if it is coincidence, but it seems as though many of the recent postings referencing stove start issues are Quads (certainly not a powered study, just an observation).

As your post illustrated, it would be nice if there was a standard performance report which manufacturers had to provide which made comparisons easier.

Sorry... I didn't look at the M55 manual earlier (http://www.enviro.com/images/manual...struction M55C-FPI Domestic Owners Manual.pdf). They reference a 6.5 lbs max per hour burn!! Plus, you can more easily use a conventional thermostat with the M55. Harman's require a slight "modification" of their ESP thermistor wired through a conventional thermostat.

I would not disagree about the potential complexity of the Mt. Vernon! Just thought it was worth consideration.

My concern at this point... How does the P52i achieve 52,000 BTU @ 5 lbs max per hour?

 

[jtakeman]

Sounds like the old adage "You get what you pay for". Less noise and easier service with the Harman. How much is the difference worth to you?

Have you seen or laid hands on the M55? AFAIK their(Enviro's) claim to the quitest stove on the market still stands. And you won't need to open the door daily to swipe the burnpot or wipe the glass to see the fire. The Air wash is also one of the better I have seen out there!

Stayfitz,

As your post illustrated, it would be nice if there was a standard performance report which manufacturers had to provide which made comparisons easier.

Not sure Harman had their stove EPA tested? Enviro's particulate output came from an actual EPA test. IIRC so was their efficienty rating. So the numbers aren't fudged like some of the stoves out there.

I wasn't sure Scotts side by side would be worth it. Enviro's fire is a visual sellers point. Curious on side by side cost which might help lean things. Enviro doesn't have the big name like the Harman, But they have been around for sometime. A buds got a 1996 EF3 that is all stock except for a digital board upgrade we did last season to give him a stat option.

IMHO either unit will do the job nicely. Tough to choose as they both have good looks and key features. Keep us posted.

 

[Bioburner]

Harman site lists a heat activated mirrored glass. Could there be a miss print on fuel consumption? Would need to be about 6 lbs per hour to get close to 50k btu.

 

[Ozymandias]

Thanks, jtakeman...will do, with pictures.

 

[briansol]

wen you take the pics, turn the camera the other way

 

[Ozymandias]

wen you take the pics, turn the camera the other way

It's the immensity of the brain trust of the members of this forum and quality of responses like this that keep me coming back!

 

[Speed3]

You Harman guys are impossible! I bet the M55 is a quieter stove than the 52i unless Harman has made some HUGE changes. Harmans are loud compared to the M55 or a Mt. Vernon (verified with an SPL meter). Harman claims the 52i is quieter than the OLD Accentra, not other brand stoves.

Ozymandias, I was stuck between the M55 and Mt Vernon and the cost of the igniter on the M55 tipped the scale for me. $235 vs $68 for the Quad. I'm not sure what a Harman igniter costs, but I would assume it is less than the M55. That is something to consider. The M55 makes a gurgling sound when it starts up as well which bothered me. That being said, I would probably still go for the Enviro over the Harman, but that's just me.

 

[stayfitz]

You Harman guys are impossible! I bet the M55 is a quieter stove than the 52i unless Harman has made some HUGE changes. Harmans are loud compared to the M55 or a Mt. Vernon (verified with an SPL meter). Harman claims the 52i is quieter than the OLD Accentra, not other brand stoves.

Ozymandias, I was stuck between the M55 and Mt Vernon and the cost of the igniter on the M55 tipped the scale for me. $235 vs $68 for the Quad. I'm not sure what a Harman igniter costs, but I would assume it is less than the M55. That is something to consider. The M55 makes a gurgling sound when it starts up as well which bothered me. That being said, I would probably still go for the Enviro over the Harman, but that's just me.

Actually... I was suggesting/leaning to the M55. There seems to be missing (or false) information regarding the new P52i. Plus, I would worry about any new model, bug(s) potential

 

[Bioburner]

That's where having a good dealer may tell you what components are the same as another model. Probably the same control board etc except for dual fans as the older Assentra.

 

[jtakeman]

You Harman guys are impossible! I bet the M55 is a quieter stove than the 52i unless Harman has made some HUGE changes. Harmans are loud compared to the M55 or a Mt. Vernon (verified with an SPL meter). Harman claims the 52i is quieter than the OLD Accentra, not other brand stoves.

Ozymandias, I was stuck between the M55 and Mt Vernon and the cost of the igniter on the M55 tipped the scale for me. $235 vs $68 for the Quad. I'm not sure what a Harman igniter costs, but I would assume it is less than the M55. That is something to consider. The M55 makes a gurgling sound when it starts up as well which bothered me. That being said, I would probably still go for the Enviro over the Harman, but that's just me.

All Enviro parts seem expensive IMHO. Gurgling sound is prolly the air pump. Its a torch type igniter which needs the air to both cool it and send the flame to light the multifuels. I have found a source were we can get the exact igniter for less. See the sticky thread.

 

[stayfitz]

That's where having a good dealer may tell you what components are the same as another model. Probably the same control board etc except for dual fans as the older Assentra.

Yes, true! My "good dealer" (Harman) went out of business over the summer

 

[Bioburner]

All Enviro parts seem expensive IMHO. Gurgling sound is prolly the air pump. Its a torch type igniter which needs the air to both cool it and send the flame to light the multifuels. I have found a source were we can get the exact igniter for less. See the sticky thread.

We had a member use a $10 petco aquarium pump for a replacement. Its just a simple air pump for crying out load.

 

[jtakeman]

We had a member use a $10 petco aquarium pump for a replacement. Its just a simple air pump for crying out load.

????

Igniter was what speed3 mentioned. You ain't gonna get that at the aquarium shop. Easy there killer!