Dutchwest Cast non-cat stoves..... Please shed some light...

[tradergordo]

mine look bigger and ported like inside maybe its me 1 st year hopeing for the best

Can you show us a pic?

I have the large model, so that might explain the difference, but mine actually has two size bore holes, the largest size is 3/16th inch. And overall the design looks quite a bit different than the previous picture here. Mine does not have any of those upward facing holes at all.

 

[tradergordo]

I don't think FireWalker's experience with his cat stove translates that well to this stove. For example no one has reported any sort of back puffing smoke problem with the everburn stoves, that has never been a problem for me and if it was a problem for someone I would be more prone to blame it on a poorly drafting chimney (or clogged chimney) which has nothing to do with the stove.

I load my stove up before work every day in the winter and come home to a warm house. I've described my routine in detail in other posts here (not to mention the videos I created). With high BTU wood that is properly seasoned, you can get 14 hour burns with a dutchwest large (I have no idea what the smaller ones can do). Although some of FireWalkers comments apply, you do want to burn hot, and you definitely need good thermal mass (momentum) before closing the bypass...

Other non-cat stoves that are not of the everburn design use burn tubes on top. And I have to wonder if any of the guys that think the Dutchwest everburn stove is a good design have ever used a burn tube on top stove? A good stove design should not be described by almost everyone who uses it as "quirky" or "finicky" in my opinion! If you aren't familiar with the burn tube on top stoves watch this video:
http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1

I just re-read my post and it sounded kind of scary. Listen, you have a good stove, it just kind of quirky. Mine worked O.K. but I would not recommend one, just too fussy to operate. I can not stress enough the need to avoid low fire extended burns with everburn/cat engaged as this is the main problem with the stove. If you need a very low fire either don't engege the everburn and let her smoke on near fully closed main air setting or light a few splits, burn them hot and let her go out. I struggled for years with this as I always wanted to get maximum burn times which in this case is like paddling up stream.

it wasn't very scary... but i still have a sick feeling about the upcoming winter... i too was hoping to fill the stove up before i left for work and be able to come home to a bed of hot ashes 8hrs later...and with cast i was hoping it would still put off a little heat even after the main fire dies out

i am more scared now to do so, my pup is left home alone all day and if she's here i don't want to burn the house down ...who cares about the house, i can replace that... but if she's inside with it..

what do other stoves (non cat) have in them to resemble the "everburn" design? is it about the same thing just better

 

[trailblaze]

mine look bigger and ported like inside maybe its me 1 st year hopeing for the best

Can you show us a pic?

I have the large model, so that might explain the difference, but mine actually has two size bore holes, the largest size is 3/16th inch. And overall the design looks quite a bit different than the previous picture here. Mine does not have any of those upward facing holes at all.

yeah, your everburn thing looks a bit different than mine... although it could be due to the stove size difference?

perhaps i got the "improved" neverburn

my holes are all 1/4 inch in dia. which if your largest is only 3/16 then overall the 1/4 holes should pull more air?

 

[FireWalker]

"I don’t think FireWalker’s experience with his cat stove translates that well to this stove. For example no one has reported any sort of back puffing smoke problem with the everburn stoves, that has never been a problem for me and if it was a problem for someone I would be more prone to blame it on a poorly drafting chimney (or clogged chimney) which has nothing to do with the stove.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/10760/P75/

This guy had backpuffing with his everburn due to placement of splits too far back in his firebox. This to me falls in the quirky catagory.

More of the same here:

https://www.hearth.com/ratesingles/rate2262.html

This guy confirms the light up process I described in my first post emphasizing the need to get the stove good and hot before light off:

https://www.hearth.com/ratesingles/rate1439.html

Your right though, my stove and the new everburn units are NOT apples to apples.

More reading here:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/10201/P75/

Bottom line, learn how to operate your stove and stick to what works well for you. Read the whole manual, there is lots of good advise in there. Mine kept me and my family warm and safe for years. My DW has been retired to occasional use in my shop and I have moved on. I have few regrets with the purchase of it, it owes me nothing. I hope my new stove will make me warm and happy for many years to come. It is also my hope that my new stove is more user friendly with regard to daily operation and maintenance.

Oh by the way, about my chimney's draft, it really sucks.................. (the good kind).

 

[FireWalker]

"it wasn’t very scary… but i still have a sick feeling about the upcoming winter… i too was hoping to fill the stove up before i left for work and be able to come home to a bed of hot ashes 8hrs later...and with cast i was hoping it would still put off a little heat even after the main fire dies out

i am more scared now to do so, my pup is left home alone all day and if she’s here i don’t want to burn the house down ...who cares about the house, i can replace that… but if she’s inside with it..

what do other stoves (non cat) have in them to resemble the “everburn” design? is it about the same thing just better"

I never had a safety issue with my DW. I too have pets, kids, wife and a home full of great stuff. I had and still have total confidence in that stove. The worst we got was some smoke at times, not a real biggy. The up side was 12 years of 24/7 steady, relaible heat and who knows how many thousands of gallons of fuel oil not burned! Stop worring about your pup, she will be happy as a clam in her favorite spot near the fire.

 

[sparklow]

I've been burning my old Dutchwest catalytic A-Plus successfully since I bought it new. Every stove has a learning curve and you will get good results after you have some experience with the stove. This year I'm going to teach myself how to run mine with biobricks, so I will have a new learning curve.

 

[petrusboots]

I have a Large Dutchwest stove bought in Sept 2007. The dealer has given be some run around leading me to approach another dealer for help. What he told me concerning the warranty issue is this. The new company who bought VC are covering past warranties. He also told me I would have to call the company directly and that they would want to send an inspection team of their own to assess any problems. This I have not done yet but will most likely do tomorrow. I have a thread concerning this issue and will post how it went after I have spoken to them.

Here is the link to the other thread Warranty Woes

Fixed the link sorry,

 

[tradergordo]

Fixed link:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/22359/

p.s. Firewalker - thanks, I stand corrected about the backpuffing thing, but like I said I never saw that problem and I still think its a chimney issue however it has been established that the everburn stoves are very draft sensitive, meaning a different stove might work fine with no backpuffing. And yes, these stoves are more "quirky" and "finicky" than other stoves which is the reason I don't recommend them. I eagerly await user reports on the new and improved everburn design though, maybe they have improved things to an acceptable level?

 

[stanleyjohn]

I am following this thread as well as others dealing with down draft stoves using the everburn.This will be my first real wood burning year with my new harman exception wood insert which uses a similar burn technology as the everburn.Havent heard of too many complaints on my type of harman on this forum,but that could be because there seems to be many VT stove owners here than harmans.

 

[BurningIsLove]

Firewalker, if you have a vertical exit setup vs. horizontal, you are also less likely to have draft (reburn) issues with this stove. It's nice that the stove has an easily reversible collar for horizontal vs. vertical connectors, but in a way, it's a disservice since many of the users like myself who have horizontal exits have more issues w/ draft.

My setup looks like tradergordos (thanks for saving me the effort of posting!). Definitely missing the two large bore holes on mine.

 

[trailblaze]

Definitely missing the two large bore holes on mine.

are you refering to my pic of the everburner....and i assume by saying "2 large bore holes" that some of yours are smaller than the other..

if so then it seems that the newer design has all the same size holes at 1/4 inch

 

[jwscarab]

I believe my holes are smaller as I purchased mine early in their production. Fall 2005. I may consider drilling them out a tad if I keep the stove.

I have to admit I have never had an issue where I felt it was unsafe. Mine is in the lower level unattanded 80% of its burn time.

I wouldnt go as far as to junk my stove, I have got some pretty decent heat with it, but I am willing to let it go for a big loss to upgrade to a T6. I wont purchase the new one untill the DW sells tho, even if it means using it thru the winter. My stack is 32' so that probably helps me somewhat.

I may fool around with leaving the damper open on colder days when I can feed it more wood, if I cant get secondary to stay lit - treat it like an old wood stove - a fire box.

 

[trailblaze]

well, it would appear i have a "refined" model everburner....

I can't wait to test it this fall...

 

[begreen]

That's the spirit trailblaze. Understand that we get more people on the site that have issues with stoves than those that are perfectly happy with them. People often come here to get problems worked out and solved. There is a certain bias toward negative reports because of this. Regardless, there are a lot of satisfied VC stove owners. Some absolutely love them. It's possible you may actually end up really liking your stove too.

 

[FireWalker]

+1 Green,

Kinda like MSNBC and the rest, if it's not based on bad news it's not a story. Sounds as this story has a good ending Blaze, make some heat with that thing!

 

[BurningIsLove]

Definitely missing the two large bore holes on mine.

are you refering to my pic of the everburner....and i assume by saying "2 large bore holes" that some of yours are smaller than the other..

if so then it seems that the newer design has all the same size holes at 1/4 inch

Mine doesnt have those two large holes whatsoever, those appear to be completely new to the design vs. a re-design or widening of the holes in the older designs like mine.

As stated in other threads, this stove is quirky sometimes and has a steep learning curve compared to other stoves, especially for former catalytic owners. But I definitely feel "safe" with it entirely. THe firebox is very well constructed of good cast iron, and I have no reason to believe that my home is in danger. There have been the documented cases of the 'runaway' or 'thermonuclear' occurances where the reburner works/drafts TOO well, and even completely dampered down, the thermometer goes uncontrollably into the red zone which are unsettling at first. (there are threads posted on potential ways to deal with this). But even when that happens, I dont feel the stove itself is going to fail in any way. Im more concerned with its effects like wasting wood, and most importantly the safety factor of my thru-wall pipe design.

 

[FireWalker]

O.K., I just have to ask because I'm curious. Does the everburn thing we see in the photos with the old and new hole pattern/size provide air into the firebox for burning there or does it draw gasses from the back/bottom of the firebox for combustion elsewhere? If so, I presume that the combustion chamber is centered above the firebox and below the removable stove top like on the older DW cat stoves? Is there still a seperate threaded adjustable air supply for the combustion chamber on the left side of the stove (adjacent to the bypass damper leaver)?

 

[trailblaze]

O.K., I just have to ask because I'm curious. Does the everburn thing we see in the photos with the old and new hole pattern/size provide air into the firebox for burning there or does it draw gasses from the back/bottom of the firebox for combustion elsewhere? If so, I presume that the combustion chamber is centered above the firebox and below the removable stove top like on the older DW cat stoves? Is there still a seperate threaded adjustable air supply for the combustion chamber on the left side of the stove (adjacent to the bypass damper leaver)?

not sure how exactly the everburn system works.... i would assume the holes draw gasses to be burned in the piece thats in the rear/bottom..... the secondary combustion chamber seems to be in the rear/bottom, coming up the rear to the chimney... the top of the firebox has the bypass damper only

the adj. air supply lever is on the bottom left.... below the bypass damper

 

[BurningIsLove]

Tradergordo, do you still have that link handy to the animated diagram that shows how DW's Everburn is designed to operate? It might better illustrate its design than I can describe in text. But in short, the secondary combustion occurs behind the stove on the bottom vs. on top of the firebox like in other stove designs. It's what sometimes referred to as a 'downdraft' design, where the unburnt smoke/gases are pulled from the top of the firebox down through the coal bed, thereby heating them up and encouraging secondary combustion. This is why having a deep coal bed & proper split orientation in this design is so critical, as well as being the source of many user's frustrations. Do a search on 'downdraft', you'll find LOTS of useful threads and helpful tips.

Unless I've missed it, there isn't a manual adjustment for the secondary air supply on the non-cats like there was on their catalytic stoves like the Encore. The EPA rules are sometimes interpreted to prevent this, as they dont want the secondary air choked too far thus causing a smoldering burn which produces less clean emissions. It's too bad as this would be helpful to be able to open/close it to tune the stove manually. I use a wad of tin foil to "tune" the intake which is not my favorite feature of the stove. There is of course an adjustable primary air supply

 

[tradergordo]

Besides the two big holes you were talking about - it looks like there are also 5 more just like them, pointed up just above the two. I'm still not convinced this is the new design though, if you look at the service manual (which I got more than 2 years ago) the shoe piece pictured in there looks just like that pic posted in this thread - I think its just the difference between the medium and the large models. Its also interesting that the replacement part costs $107 for the large model, and $127 for the medium model. At any rate, it turns out that part is extremely easy to replace (nothing to unbolt or unscrew, just pull the andirons out, pull the metal grate on the bottom of the firebox up and out, and then you can remove the shoe piece. So I think if there really is a new & improved shoe, we should be able to easily upgrade. One of us has to get over to a dealer that has recent inventory and see for ourselves...

As for that animated diagram of everburn - I can't seem to locate it, wasn't it on some Japanese website?

 

[tradergordo]

Hmmm, I just discovered something else that is interesting - in the new owners manual dated AUGUST 2008, they added one extra part - a side door refractory cover! This was badly needed, and protects the refractory piece when you accidentally close the door on a piece of wood. It would also serve to hold the refractory piece together in the case where it does crack. You can see the new part (#48) in the diagram at the end of the manual here:
http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2008/30002291_Dutchwest_NC_Lg.pdf

However I don't see any clues in the new manual regarding refinements to the shoe piece. My guess is that if you don't have the refractory cover, you don't have the new and improved design. And since the manual is dated August 2008, I'd also guess that not too many stores have the new design yet either.

 

[FireWalker]

I can't help to wonder what kind of torture testing this new everburn system went thru before production release. People do and will throw wood into these stoves, they will walk away from them with the ash door open for a bit too long, they will add wood with ice chunks on them, they will force one more split into firebox and press it againts glass and other parts, they will close bypass damper too soon and too late. All of these things can be expected from the primary user, imagine what happens when the user asks their teenage son to stoke the stove when you get home from school. What kind of hell will he put the stove thru?

All of these things I contend fall into the normal use catagory and are part of heating your home all fall, winter and spring. Yea, some of these things sound abusive but they are all eventually going to happen so why not make the unit robust enough to withstand minor abuse.

The Chevy Volt is right now a working prototype plug-in electric/gas car, but we cant' have one until late 2010 because they are not done torture testing every part and system in that vehicle. Thats a long time and a lot of testing.

 

[joshh]

We love our 2007 DW medium. It is a little small for our house, wish we had the xtra large model. I don't understand all the problems burning, start fire, get hot, engage everburn, enjoy.

 

[trailblaze]

i think i agree with what green said before.... not many people come on here and brag and brag on how good their stove is... most come on looking for info or with problems and needing help

i am sure there are many happy people with DW stoves... i hope i am one

 

[jeff6443]

My 2478 an I are still getting to know eachother . I need cold to make her relax and let her hair down . She s young built 2008 Plastic handle
She s picky about her men um wood . I wasent prepared for her . But she s here and cant leave so Im gonna learn how to please this lady
So far mine burns secondary lightly but its 48 outside .My installer talked to me (cus after this site I was all questions)She said we put in a high stack
straight shot up 22 feet . It will work in the winter . right now 84 in here
PS PHILLYS WON