E10 Mythts

[Flatbedford]

I just read this from the BoatUS about E10. While this is marine specific, it is interesting that E10 may not be as bad as we think.
http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2011/december/ethanol.asp

 

[Thistle]

I've been using it in all my small engines in addition to cars & trucks for 15 yrs with no problems whatsoever.If I know I wont be using anything for more than a few weeks,the gas tank gets emptied,which is a good idea no matter what fuel you're using.Only things that are empty this time of year is the push mower & weedtrimmer.

 

[MasterMech]

I've been running E10 here in everything I own. No problems and I don't always take special precautions for off-season storage. The article keeps repeating "Keep the tank full" and that is the single most important thing you can do when storing fuel. Leaving the tank half or totally empty leaves plenty of room for condensation. People always ask me "Well how did I get water in my fuel?" and if they don't have it sitting in there storage cans, it's most likely condensation building up. People also seldom talk about the benefits of Ethanol in their fuel which the article does a great job of explaining at the very end.

""After the transition period from E0, E10 may actually be a superior marine fuel as it tends to keep low levels of water moving through the fuel system, keeping the
system 'dry.'" "

 

[firefighterjake]

I read a lot about ethanol when Maine gas stations started pumping it . . . mainly out of concern for my expensive two-stroke snowmobile . . . and I pretty much came to the conclusion that as long as I exercised some caution by using fuel stabilizers that it wouldn't be that big a deal in my newer equipment. Several years in and no problems with ethanol in the saw, sled, ATV, cars, mower, etc.

 

[Battenkiller]

I'm not buying the part about ethanol not being hygroscopic. Water molecules in the air will readily form hydrogen bonds with ethanol molecules at the surface of the mixture and capture them into the solution. Pure 100% ethanol will quickly become 95% ethanol/5% water in humid conditions if left in the open air. So, a 10% mixture (E10) of ethanol in gasoline would eventually absorb about 1/2% water by volume through the air alone.

I pay dearly for anhydrous ethanol to use in my violin touchup varnishes. I keep it in an airtight bottle with florists marbles added to displace volume until the liquid is near the top of the container.

I do agree that the primary method of water getting into your tank is through condensation. The first thing my dad taught me at 16 after getting my driver's permit is to always keep the tank full if you're leaving it unused for a while so condensation wouldn't form in the gas tank.


Here's a neat little clip that shows how you can get phase separation occuring almost immediately with fresh gas in the winter:

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[oldspark]

IMHO the article is not all that favorable of the E10, just saying you can live with it if you have to.

 

[Jack Straw]

So is it better to completely empty a fuel system or to fill it up and add an additive (stabil, sea foam etc) when you are storing for an extended period? I keep my plow truck full and add additives because I can't empty it, I drain my mowers complety for storage.

 

[taxidermist]

IMHO the article is not all that favorable of the E10, just saying you can live with it if you have to.

Thats what I thought too. Use good fuel, keep it air tight for storage, if using a 2 stroke motor only mix enough that you will use in a month, and keep it air tight, keep it air tight.....did i mention keep it air tight.....LOL

I use this for my machines that i store with fuel in the tanks, (broken link removed to http://mystarbrite.com/startron/)


Rob

 

[G6 at Snook TX]

Jack,

Last winter "Popular Mechanics" recommended draining the tank because the damage done by ethanol outweighed the potential damage done by rusty tank or dried out fuel lines. I will do that soon to my tractors and power equipment.

 

[MasterMech]

So is it better to completely empty a fuel system or to fill it up and add an additive (stabil, sea foam etc) when you are storing for an extended period? I keep my plow truck full and add additives because I can't empty it, I drain my mowers complety for storage.

Either or but never in between! ;-)

 

[Giles]

I think that when people have problems with a piece of machinery, they want to blame something for their problems. In many cases, I am sure it is negligence or lack of maintenance in many cases. I have small engines and antique vehicles that have not given problems.

 

[wkpoor]

I think that when people have problems with a piece of machinery, they want to blame something for their problems. In many cases, I am sure it is negligence or lack of maintenance in many cases. I have small engines and antique vehicles that have not given problems.

Sometimes yes but not always so. In the 80s when ethanol first came out it was flat out melting fuel lines and about anything rubber in the fuel systems of small engines and that was a fact. Mfg had to quickly switch to alcohol compatible components. That problem is still lurking out there today as evidence of the fuel cap issues.
One thing you don't see in most unregulated consumer products is service bulletins. Somewhat in the automotive industry but not for everything else. In the aircraft industry service bulletins come out nearly daily and there can be hundreds issued every year just for one model. A service bulletin is the mfg saying we made a mistake or something does need changed to make the product better or safer. So not all problems are end user related. The perfect anything has yet to be built.

 

[Giles]

I think that when people have problems with a piece of machinery, they want to blame something for their problems. In many cases, I am sure it is negligence or lack of maintenance in many cases. I have small engines and antique vehicles that have not given problems.

Sometimes yes but not always so. In the 80s when ethanol first came out it was flat out melting fuel lines and about anything rubber in the fuel systems of small engines and that was a fact. Mfg had to quickly switch to alcohol compatible components. That problem is still lurking out there today as evidence of the fuel cap issues.
One thing you don't see in most unregulated consumer products is service bulletins. Somewhat in the automotive industry but not for everything else. In the aircraft industry service bulletins come out nearly daily and there can be hundreds issued every year just for one model. A service bulletin is the mfg saying we made a mistake or something does need changed to make the product better or safer. So not all problems are end user related. The perfect anything has yet to be built.

That's what I said---In many cases, I am sure it is negligence or lack of maintenance in many cases. I understand what you are saying, but I have a 1979 model Craftsman chainsaw along with a 1982 Husk chainsaw and two Echo leaf blowers that are about 10 years old. All have original fuel lines
and yes, they are hard and will need replacement when removed. I also have a 1976 MGB and a 1975 Triumph TR6 all with regular replacement fuel lines.
I have worked with small engine repair for over 50 years, I have customers come in with fuel lines virtually melted.
One problem I have corrected is carburetor contamination which I believe Ethanol causes.
I believe fresh fuel is the answer.
Many people bring their equipment in and all I do is drain and add fresh fuel!!
Not many repair shops will do this and that's why my reputation is so good.
These are only my personal opinions acquired from experience.

 

[oldspark]

I think that when people have problems with a piece of machinery, they want to blame something for their problems. In many cases, I am sure it is negligence or lack of maintenance in many cases. I have small engines and antique vehicles that have not given problems.

Call it what you want but when something is working and you put E gas in and it does not run very good what are you going to blame.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I just read this from the BoatUS about E10. While this is marine specific, it is interesting that E10 may not be as bad as we think.
http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2011/december/ethanol.asp

Maybe not, but ethanol is a scam foisted on America by Iowa and their stupid caucus. It's not in gasoline because it makes everything run better.

 

[oldspark]

Now its our fault? :lol: I agree with you.

 

[Flatbedford]

Maybe not, but ethanol is a scam foisted on America by Iowa and their stupid caucus. It's not in gasoline because it makes everything run better.

Farm subsidy.

 

[wkpoor]

Giles, Don't forget the whole country doesn't have the same fuel at the pumps. I know for a fact 70s and 80s Crapsman chainsaws blowers and the like had fuel lines that melted when in contact with ethanol. If you didn't see the problem then possibly your area didn't sell as much ethanol. Remember we live in the corn belt and I know it started showing up at the pump in the early 80s.