Empire Gateway 2300 Free Standing Wood Stove Air Intake? (and more)

[DavidJ726]

Greetings all, new user here

I'm learning wood stoves aren't what I'm used to from some 30+ years ago...

I'm in a new home and I had a Gateway 2300 installed when the hose was finished in Feb of this year. The stove is in the basement, and our house is on a slope. The pipe is a double walled 6" (I think the inside is SS, but I'm checking). The pipe exits the wall, is enclosed in a chase, and I believe the stack is about 20' high, and on the backside (Southside) of the house. There's a 45° & a 90° bend, but no damper in the flue pipe.

Due to my prior traveling, I've only been able to have a couple of fires since we've moved in, one earlier this year, and one the other week. It was not pleasant, and unfortunately I did not document the entire experience, but there was a lot of smoke pushed back into the house when the fire was built and trying to get hot air up the stack, and also when door was opened to add logs. It seemed to be a juggling act of how far the door could be opened before smoke began pushing back into the room. The fire was started with very dry 2x4 pieces split into kindling. Some of the wood I was burning was more than a year old, and some of it was supposedly seasoned. It sounded dry when tapping two pieces together, but my experience is more with softer wood than the oak and other hardwoods here in the greater KC area.

From what I can see, there's just a single small lever on the front of the stove that operates a small plate underneath the firebox, and somewhat covers a small opening that enters the firebox in the very front bottom, via a small squarish tube with 3 (aprox 1/8') holes. Also underneath the firebox is a small piece of square pipe with an opening that has no damper control on it at all, and it feeds a square pipe inside the firebox that's connected to air tubes above.

Is this all the air control I have? It feels odd, especially after being used to my parents Buck stoves of the late 1980's.

Also, a week after having the smoke bomb in the basement, there's still a lot of smoke odor lingering. Any tips on how to eliminate it? I've had doors and windows opened frequently, but it is in the 30°'s... We've vacuumed many times, used neutral Febreze, vinegar in bowls, etc...

So with all that said, I know I need a fresh air kit to bring in additional oxygen, and I need a damper installed to help block downdraft into the stove after the fire is out, but I'm not sure if that alone will solve my smoke issues. Is a fan on the top of the stack going to be needed to help offset the 20' of pipe? And will the damper in the flue help eliminate what I feel is residual smoke odor from cold air coming out of the stove.

One other item I need to mention is that even with the sliding back door cracked open, while it seemed to help the burn and to eliminate smoke being pushed back into the room, I didn't seem like it provided all that air that was needed.

I know that's a lot, and I have additional questions, but I feel this is a good start.

I appreciate any guidance given.

Thanks,
David

 

[begreen]

It's not the stove. The issue sounds like negative pressure, not untypical in basements. The issue can be compounded by a cold flue system. Try warming it up first with a hair dryer or heat gun blowing hot air above the baffle.

There are many reasons for negative pressure. This article covers some of them. Basically air leaking from an above floor due to leaky windows, an unsealed attic door, etc and/or exhaust fans, causes lower pressure down below in the basement.

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - All About Chimneys

The Wood Heat Organization was formed to support the public in the responsible use of wood energy in the home. We fulfill our mandate by providing reliable information, by conducting research into wood heating-related issues and by representing the public interest in discussions of policies that...

woodheat.org

Some Bucks have a lot of air controls but that is not necessary for good operation. Many stoves have a single air control.

 

[DavidJ726]

Thanks Begreen,

A lot of good info at that site, but makes me feel like a basement stove for me is a lost cause... Putting the stack up through the house isn't an option, it sounds like adding a fresh air intake isn't goin to be very helpful, and it appears a damper in the flue isn't the right thing to do either. I need to keep digging around for info I guess. The fireplace shop that installed it will be here in a couple weeks and I'll see what they say.

David

 

[begreen]

In some houses, basement stoves can be a real challenge. Here are a few things to try in the next couple weeks. Make sure any competing appliance is off (dryer, bath or kitchen fans, etc.) Outside air can help. As a test, open a nearby window 1/2" and before starting the fire and try the heat gun or something to preheat the flue system. Then, try top down starting. It will heat the flue faster while creating less smoke.

It might be good to take a closer look at the house itself. Are there leaks upstairs that can be sealed? Is there a fresh air exchange system in the house that needs fine tuning? Excess return air pulling from the basement?

If nothing works, then it could be that the basement install is not practical for the house.

 

[DavidJ726]

The house was built in 2024, so it's extremely air-tight. We did have a sliding glass door cracked open just a bit during the fire, and it helped some, I'll try that again. The furnace was on & off, so that was probably competing for air. I'm unaware of a fresh air exchange system in the but I'll double check with the builder. As far as pre-heating with a hot-air gun, the air tubes and baffle board block the opening to the pipe, so I assume pre heating the air tubes is all that can be done...?

 

[stoveliker]

Another thing that can help is to extend the chimney.
You have two 90s, and a horizontal section. That amounts to taking off about 8 ft of effective chimney height, leaving you at 12 ft which likely is not sufficient (especially if you have some negative air pressure in the basement, as evidenced by the sliding door test you did).

Remember the chimney is the engine that runs the stove. Warm air rises, creating a lower pressure in the stove so air is sucked in to be used for combustion. Having a taller chimney increases that suction. (And having horizontal sections thru a wall, and elbows, decreases it, as noted above.)

So you can buy some cheap 6" pipe (duct or single wall stove pipe), insert it in the top of the chimney and see if it runs better - before investing in more class A and chase.

This won't resolve issues due to air systems that may be venting out air from the home but it can help with "normal" (house-physics based) basement issues.

 

[Burnin Since 1991]

Another thing that can help is to extend the chimney.
You have two 90s, and a horizontal section. That amounts to taking off about 8 ft of effective chimney height, leaving you at 12 ft which likely is not sufficient (especially if you have some negative air pressure in the basement, as evidenced by the sliding door test you did).

Remember the chimney is the engine that runs the stove. Warm air rises, creating a lower pressure in the stove so air is sucked in to be used for combustion. Having a taller chimney increases that suction. (And having horizontal sections thru a wall, and elbows, decreases it, as noted above.)

So you can buy some cheap 6" pipe (duct or single wall stove pipe), insert it in the top of the chimney and see if it runs better - before investing in more class A and chase.

This won't resolve issues due to air systems that may be venting out air from the home but it can help with "normal" (house-physics based) basement issues.

I think this is worth trying. It could be the answer. If it doesn't help then you're only out a few bucks for single wall pipe. Buy something like these: single wall old school stove pipe

I'd get 3 sections so you can try it in increments. If it makes a difference you can easily add double wall class A chimney pipe.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like there is 20' of chimney outside + about 4' of vertical gain inside. with a soft 90 turn inside. More height may help, but I doubt it. Chimney location might be compounding the issue if it's on the windward side with more roof elevation after it. That can create a positive pressure zone around the chimney cap.

 

[stoveliker]

I agree that it's more likely a home air management issue.
I read "the stack is 20 ft" as a characterization of the total system.

If a clear fan/exhaust/air management issue is easily identified, that is the first step .
If not, I'd get cheap pipe and try, because even if 24' tall, subtracting 8 ft reaches only 1 ft above the general minimum - and that for a basement stove. (A 45 counts for 1 ft, and a 90 for 2 ft in my manual, so it may make things easier that one of the 90s has a larger radius, but not likely much easier.)

 

[begreen]

I'd subtract approximately 4 ft from the height for the soft 90 and outside T.

Simple suggestion - make sure the tee cap is on correctly and sealing well.

 

[stoveliker]

Fair enough. Without measuring the draft (pressure), it's guessing.
Kansas city can be near 1000 ft elevation (between 700 and 1600 is what Google tells me), that adds a bit too.

For the OP, this is from my manual.