Englander NCH 30 not getting air into firebox
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You have an 8x8 block flue, thats on the large side for the nc30 as it require only a 6" round. Until you get that flue hot (all the block heated up) draft is going to be quite lazy, 57degs is also part of the problem. Basement install with a block flue are always problematic draft wise, particularly when starting with a cold flue on the epa style stoves now available. Best to burn a fair size wad of newspaper first then add kindling to get the air moving up and out.
2 holes in the front are going to be inside the pedestal.
And of course the big gotcha is if your wood is not dryer than 20% internal moisture content you are going to be battling an up hill fight
Nc 30 loves wood at around 15% moisture content and will blast ya out .
With wood over 20% you will be hard pressed to get to the 600-700 operating range the unit is noted for.
2 holes in the front are going to be inside the pedestal.
And of course the big gotcha is if your wood is not dryer than 20% internal moisture content you are going to be battling an up hill fight
Nc 30 loves wood at around 15% moisture content and will blast ya out .
With wood over 20% you will be hard pressed to get to the 600-700 operating range the unit is noted for.
Grisu
Minister of Fire
Have you tested the moisture content of your wood by splitting some in half and inserting the pins in the fresh surface? Is the primary air fully open? Venting a 6" outlet stove into an 8" x 8" chimney is not ideal. That's a more than a 5-fold difference.
37 outside , 85 in my basement and 75 upstairs on main floor and 72 upstairs . Door closed air closed to about half . Awesome lightshow, but now I'm going through wood like crazy, just as bad as the old smoke dragon!! Now what am I doing wrong? Lol
Crap, winter is about to bite you in the butt. Draft should improve and your sweep needs a lesson in physics. Was the obstructing pipe removed and the thimble hole well sealed. Your chimney will not draft well if it's leaky. Instead it will just suck air in through all the leaky spots. Seal up them including the cleanout door if it is just a loose metal fitting door.
Like Dad used to say. "Boy would b_itch if he was hung with a new rope."
Gotta get used to how it runs and start turning that sucker down sooner. You'll get there. Everybody, including me, burns a lot more wood the first season with a new/different stove.
You should read over the many other recent threads where we are discussing newbie burning in an EPA stove. Wait for the coals to burn down, load bigger splits, turn the air down sooner and forget what the sweep told you.
Grisu
Minister of Fire
Congrats to get finally some heat out of the stove. Once you have liner you will be able to close the air much more than half, reducing the amount of heat that goes up your chimney.
Spoke too soon , back to fighting closing the door. Soon as I do wham-o no fire . Wood is at 20% moisture content guess it could be drier. Air control still seems to have no effect at all. I don't see any difference in the flame when I open or close it. I verified it's connected. Maybe it is the chimney, but others on here are running fine with bigger. When you guys say clean out door , do you mean the one on the outside on the chimney? Mine runs straight up through the middle of the house , there is no clean out door. Perplexing! Do you have to repeat the start up process each time you reload( leave door cracked until logs burning ) or do you just load her up
And shut her back down? What kind of burn times are you guys getting. Right now I'm burning to calls in less than an hour, can't be right!
And shut her back down? What kind of burn times are you guys getting. Right now I'm burning to calls in less than an hour, can't be right!
Think I've found the culprit, WOOD!
Threw some split 2x4's in with my burch that was already burning closed the door and said F' it . Took a shower went back to check
It one last time . Door chit air almost completely closed , 2x4's burning bright, other logs nothing! Wow ! So wood has to be drier than 20%. Always thought that was good. Not for the good ol EPA I guess! Don't know where I'll find any drier! Saga continues!
Threw some split 2x4's in with my burch that was already burning closed the door and said F' it . Took a shower went back to check
It one last time . Door chit air almost completely closed , 2x4's burning bright, other logs nothing! Wow ! So wood has to be drier than 20%. Always thought that was good. Not for the good ol EPA I guess! Don't know where I'll find any drier! Saga continues!
Get some of the compressed wood blocks , various brands. Load a couple of those with your not so hot wood. Take your splits split them down smaller, cross stack a bunch in same area as stove this will help dry them quicker. leave sit a couple days at least before using. Rotate this small stock with new additions. And when you can, get a six inch liner down that flue, possible might have to go to a five inch - best if it were an insulated one, might not have room for a 6" insulated unless the clay flue tiles are busted out. Even a double wall or, gulp, single wall would be better than current. Edumacation is always hard on new owners/ burners epa stove wise. Last but not least might want to find a sweep that knows something about EPA stoves - I can't believe the number of times I read about these guys ( who supposedly are certified ) and their thought processes.
Find a place that needs to get rid of pallets. You can get them for free. Use a sawzall to cut them up as they can have lots of nails.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
To get the full burn times that your stove is rated for, as well as most epa air tube stoves - you use the damper wide open when starting the fire or reloading to get the wood lit, once you achieve full bore light off you close the air down (if the air is shut all the way, then you are running the stove at 100% design) with the air control all the way in it still allows air to enter inside the stove (engineered design) but you get maximum heat and full secondary burn off, the key like what others have said is you need dry wood <20% is pushing it <15% you are in the zone..good luck.
I agree 100% with Kenny. 20% really isn't that great for EPA stoves. ESPECIALLY when trying to get a fire going. I have 3 partitions of wood that are 12-13%, 15-17%, and 19-21%. The wood that is 12-13% is my Cadillac wood by far. Almost instant ignition and heat. Burns hot and almost entirely on its own oxygen. I can have my primary air intake just about completely shut, while maintaining 6-7 hour burn times, at 550-650* stove temperatures. My 19-21% wood does burn fine, but only after about an hour of ramping up, and boiling out some of that remaining moisture (non-visible). Much more energy wasted in the first phase of burning.
Grisu
Minister of Fire
Usually 20% is fine. How did you measure the moisture content? Did you split some pieces in half and press the pins in the center of the fresh surface along the grain? On the outside, even recently split firewood will measure 20% or less. It is the internal moisture that counts.
Small splits 20%, used done Eco bricks last night, no problems other than she only got up to around 400 , but I only used 4 bricks, burnt for about 6 hrs
BCC_Burner
Feeling the Heat
You don't have 12% MC wood in New Hampshire. That might be what your MM reads, but it isn't that low. I know everyone here likes to brag about wood moisture content like it's willie size, but you can always tell whose full of it, and who sits back with the quiet confidence that comes from knowing you're both prepared and not a liar.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
BurnIt13
Minister of Fire
You have two problems, not 1. 20% moisture should be fine. Are you checking the end of a piece of firewood or splitting it in half and checking the just-split face?
Your biggest problem is still your chimney. A square 8x8 chimney has an area of 64 square inches. The NC-30 calls for for 6" round chimney which is 28 square inches. Your chimney is more than 2X too big
You are going to have a heck of a problem getting good draft with a giant chimney. That explains why it ran better during the colder weather. During shoulder season or anything above 35F and you are going to have a heck of a problem.
So, add the two problems together and you will never get a good fire going. Anything less than ideal, truly seasoned wood with very cold (draft friendly) weather will give to a bad result. Sounds like you need a liner.
Your biggest problem is still your chimney. A square 8x8 chimney has an area of 64 square inches. The NC-30 calls for for 6" round chimney which is 28 square inches. Your chimney is more than 2X too big
You are going to have a heck of a problem getting good draft with a giant chimney. That explains why it ran better during the colder weather. During shoulder season or anything above 35F and you are going to have a heck of a problem.
So, add the two problems together and you will never get a good fire going. Anything less than ideal, truly seasoned wood with very cold (draft friendly) weather will give to a bad result. Sounds like you need a liner.
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My 12-13% wood is indeed 12-13%. I have about an 1/4 cord that has been stored in a closet for over 3 years in the home we purchased last year. It is indeed BONE dry. It weighs almost nothing and will register 11-14% on the meter after a split through the center . I throw out the low and high reading. We also keep the house climate controlled at 50% RH through out the summer, and will be 35-40% during winter. I am far from bragging, and I am data, and experimental compulsive. This is not your typical seasoned wood that sits outside year after year. Your entitled to your disbelief.
sdunlimited
Member
Not to thread jack, but do you all find a MM to be a critical tool to assist in how and what you burn throughout the season?
It gives you an idea when you can get max efficiency from your fuel. Is it critical? Not at all, but it does help with guessing games when not being able to burn that "Perfectly seasoned" wood. (Which MANY people do not even burn wood remotely dry enough).
Yes, when I started burning an EPA approved stove it taught me a lot about my wood and how my stove reacted to it.
Now I'm at least two years ahead on my wood and it just is what it is when I get to it.
Gave my moisture meter to a friend who was a new burner.
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