Englander NCH 30 not getting air into firebox

[kennyp2339]

Not to thread jack, but do you all find a MM to be a critical tool to assist in how and what you burn throughout the season?

No - its just a fancy add on for me, a toy so my friends and I can brag to each other who has the nicest stacks and the driest wood, its more of a support tool when you have a couple beers and the wood conversation comes up..lol just good clean fun, other than that I can actually careless if its 5, 10, 15 percent, just give me clean heat lol

 

[blades]

Note on Moisture meters- in case you never read the directions - wood tested needs to be close to room temp internally. Nc 30 prefers wood in the 15% class.
You can help your self a bit by loading wood in stove with a tunnel at the bottom for the dog house air to reach the back wall rather than blocking it. The back wall in the center is the preheat channel for the secondary air fed to the 4 tubes up top.

 

[Mtngoat69]

Note on Moisture meters- in case you never read the directions - wood tested needs to be close to room temp internally. Nc 30 prefers wood in the 15% class.
You can help your self a bit by loading wood in stove with a tunnel at the bottom for the dog house air to reach the back wall rather than blocking it. The back wall in the center is the preheat channel for the secondary air fed to the 4 tubes up top.

 

[Mtngoat69]

Been awhile but I've been fighting this POS all the way! Had wood anywhere from 18-22% moisture content can never shut the door without it going out.
Went to strictly Eco bricks , can close the door and get about a 2 hour burn at 400 degrees. Never get to the 6-700 range you guys speak of. It's 12 degrees outside and this thing just does not radiate any heat , maybe can get it to 450 for a short time and I can put my hand an inch from the surface and barely feel any heat! The other problem is always full of coal , never completely burns so ash blocks airway I'm guessing. About to throw it on the curb. If all EPA stoves operate this way , you guys can have them . Way to fickle for me , specific moisture content for wood, certain outside temps, specific flue sizes.... Blah blah blah . I've got better things to do than cater to a frickin wood stove Only thing I haven't tried is a 6 on flue and I just don't think that's the problem. Plenty of you guys operate with bigger than what I have without these problems. Maybe I just have a lemon

 

[bholler]

They are not all that touchy no. I know many people that burn over 20% successfully. but 20% should be good if that is really what you have. I personally would call a different sweep if the last one said outside temps have nothing to do with draft he is clueless and i wouldn't trust him at all. Did he go over the stove and inspect everything? Did he test your wood? Did he start a fire? Did he try opening a nearby window while the fire was burning? Did he test draft? I rarely test draft but in a situation where there is a consistent problem it can be helpful these are all things that should be done when diagnosing a problem

 

[Hunker Down]

I think you may have a lemon. I am a newbie. Burning an englander nc 30 for about 14 days. I have terrible wood. All over 22%. I. Have been supplementing dimensional wood. this thing is a BEAST! My wife who is notoriously cold, asked me to dial it back some. I Am no expert. Not even a novice, but this very utilitarian stove has lived up to all the hype for our home. I hope the amazing people here can help you. Actually I know they can. I know this post doesn't really help you, thought maybe it could give you a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[sdunlimited]

I concur with Hunker Down above ^

Got some marginally dry wood along with Eco/Bio bricks and blocks and it has rarely dipped below 75 degrees downstairs. My wife also complains that it's 'too hot'. By far the warmest this house has ever been during this season. Burning far less than our old stove too. No complaints.

I'd venture that it's a draft issue before the stove being a lemon but I'm certainly no expert. With my door open the full width of the metal rod attached to the handle, the 'wind' blows insanely hard sucking the hot air up the chimney. You can see and hear it fluttering away in there. That's with 6" black double walled about 3' to the thimble then 6" Class A stainless going up ~24' outside the house.

 

[Mtngoat69]

The sweep didn't do any of that . Literally stuck the broom up and pulled it down once vacuumed up the dust and charged me $200. The draft seems fine , when I start to close the door I can hear and see the air you're talking about swirls around so much it will almost blow out the flames. Soon as I shut the door poof out. Unless I'm using Eco bricks then it's faintly blue but will burn but never gets above 450. I swear the air control does absolutely nothing ! I see no flame manipulation at all when I move it. Flame stays the same regardless of where I put it. It's connected , I verified that but it does nothing as far as regulating the air. Which takes me back to my very first post. It's not getting air through the intake for some reason. Only works when sucking air through the door opening. Maybe it's clogged but like I said before I blew air through the intake and had a windstorm in the box. I just don't get it and I'm freezing my A#^! Off

 

[bholler]

Get some one out there who has a clue your last sweep didn't and when you call them tell them they are coming out to diagnose a draft problem not to clean the chimney they will allow more time. It is very possible you got a faulty stove but it sounds allot more like a draft or negative pressure issue

 

[Cory S]

Are you letting the internal temps get high enough before shutting the door? My EPA stove has to warm the fuel to the point of total flames and a stovetop temp of at least 350-375* before I can even think of sealing the door all the way.

 

[Mtngoat69]

Gees, I can hardly get it to that temp, 450 is the best I've got with a full load of Eco bricks. While I have the door even a 1/4" open I get a heck of a fire but no temps nearly that high, maybe 250

 

[Cory S]

Gees, I can hardly get it to that temp, 450 is the best I've got with a full load of Eco bricks. While I have the door even a 1/4" open I get a heck of a fire but no temps nearly that high, maybe 250

I find a 1/4" open is way too much. Let's far too much air in too quick, and cools the firebox down. Literally..... Cracking the door just titch is all that's needed. A sliver of about 1/32" or about .020-.030" This allows the firebox too still heat up. EPA stoves hardly let any air in, even with the control rod pulled out all the way. Starting a fire or a reload from under 200*, is where this is most noticeable.

 

[brenndatomu]

I know you said you blew air threw the air intake holes, but I'm wondering if you found all of them...? IIRC, you bought this stove used? Maybe it does have something blocking a hole, mud dobbers could have got in there if it sat in a garage for a bit, or even a spider web. I'm talking inside the air passages. Maybe not enough to block it off, just enough to screw with the proper air flow.
Any y'all that have one of these things can tell him exactly where all the holes are? I'm not sure how to tell if those holes would be partially blocked... or exactly how to open them up if they were, anybody that has one have any ideas?

 

[blades]

Primary air already discussed 3" intake on back of stove feed airwash down front glass, dog house ( little sq, box front lower center) is fed by 2 intakes bottom of unit front corners inside pedestal. 2" square intake on back feeds secondary burn tubes up top.
Basement install, 3 times too large stone flue, that is where 98% of your problem lies. Until you get that flue hot - you will have a groan of a time getting things running correctly. Another area of concern is that you may have a negative pressure level in the basement essentially starving the unit of combustion air. Another thing there should be 2 apx 3/8 thick white boards resting on top of the secondary tubes. If you don't have those it will not work properly. By removing the first tube ( 1 screw on left side of box tube slides left right) you can then remove the boards carefully. There may be a build up of ash dust restricting exhaust flow laying on top of them. The 3" intake can be connected to a through the wall outside air source. I think you can down load a manual at englander web sight for the 30.
Everything you have written suggests 2 main things flue too large and wet wood. Solve those first then we can work on control refinements. I heat a 2000 sqft house with one NC30 in Wisconsin. All EPA stoves are picky about wood moisture content. Cut it today and burn it tomorrow does not work with these stoves period.

 

[Mtngoat69]

No sir from doghouse or front corners only air wash and unless I missed it I don't see a intake in the rear

 

[Mtngoat69]

Thought it was wood but it reacts the same with the Eco bricks

 

[bholler]

I missed that this was a used stove who knows what was done to it previously how it was stored how it was moved ect. Get a pro out to go over everything with the stove and the setup. It should work ok on a clay lined chimney (although not as good as it could) if everything else is ok but if there is something else going on the over sized uninsulated flue will make that problem much worse

 

[Mtngoat69]

Cleaned her out and inspected the inside again. Definitely no 2" intake in the rear. Hooked my blower to it again only air wash nothing from dog house. Can't cind holes in the front either. Blew air back through doghouse I. Hopes of finding them . Nothing. Either it is severly clogged or this a kno k off someone put an Englander tag on. Can someone post a pic of the 2" sqauare intake in the rear because this one does not have one which really confuses me.

 

[brenndatomu]

Either it is severly clogged or this a kno k off someone put an Englander tag on.

Funny, I was just thinking earlier, "I wonder if this thing is actually a NC30"

 

[BrotherBart]

The hole in the rear for secondary air intake is a hole in the bottom of the firebox. Directly behind and above the round primary air intake.

 

[Mtngoat69]

Nope mine does not have that second hole, however I did find a 2"X1" square opening right above the 3" intake , I guess that's it.

 

[sdunlimited]

That's really strange. I've got the same label on mine as you have, the approximately (I didn't measure) 2x1 square hole and the back of mine looks just like BB's above but my blower is connected to the top hole. Manufacture date on mine however was 10-14-14. Still wet behind the ears!
Curious to see if the other more experienced folks have more input for you on this.

 

[bholler]

Post pics of the entire setup please we might be able to give you some input because we keep going in circles here and it is getting old

 

[brenndatomu]

we keep going in circles here and it is getting old

Not much of a NASCAR fan, ehh?

 

[Mtngoat69]

I think the rectangular hole must be the secondary intake you're speaking of . When and if it warms up a little ill check it with air to see if it's clear. Nothing from dog house baffles me. I've got a roaring fire in it right now with Eco logs and its struggling to get to 400