Fireplace insert - issues with complaining neighbors

[qwain76]

Both me and my wife were raised in families used to enjoy the winters around a cozy fireplace. Now that we purchased our own home, for more than a decade we have been running firewood heat using a Travis (FireplaceX) high efficiency insert. What a fantastic piece of equipment!
However, we started having issues when some new neighbors moved in next door and started raising numerous complains about us burning firewood. They say it's a threat for the health of their children and we should stop immediately. We burn very dry and seasoned firewood (with time and mistakes I learned how and where to get the good one) and beside the first five minutes after we load the stove, the smoke is clear.

- Has any of you dealt with a similar issue? Can they potentially draw us into a lawsuit?
- Does anybody have a comparison study between smoke from a high efficiency wood burning stove and a natural gas furnace? Is it true that firewood smoke is such a threat?
- Firewood smoke sometimes carries that (pleasant I would say) smell of wood fire, is this a sign of pollution or the smell is not related to the pollution?

Any info would help since this issue is becoming quite annoying and I would like to end it.

Thanks a lot

 

[Rickb]

Sounds like you just have some chitty neighbors. I doubt anything you do or tell them will make a difference. As long as there is no code violations or your HOA doesnt have some crazy rules i'm not sure they can do much about it. Its not like your chimney wast there when then were looking at houses. Did they just assume it was there for decoration?

 

[bholler]

Both me and my wife were raised in families used to enjoy the winters around a cozy fireplace. Now that we purchased our own home, for more than a decade we have been running firewood heat using a Travis (FireplaceX) high efficiency insert. What a fantastic piece of equipment!
However, we started having issues when some new neighbors moved in next door and started raising numerous complains about us burning firewood. They say it's a threat for the health of their children and we should stop immediately. We burn very dry and seasoned firewood (with time and mistakes I learned how and where to get the good one) and beside the first five minutes after we load the stove, the smoke is clear.

- Has any of you dealt with a similar issue? Can they potentially draw us into a lawsuit?
- Does anybody have a comparison study between smoke from a high efficiency wood burning stove and a natural gas furnace? Is it true that firewood smoke is such a threat?
- Firewood smoke sometimes carries that (pleasant I would say) smell of wood fire, is this a sign of pollution or the smell is not related to the pollution?

Any info would help since this issue is becoming quite annoying and I would like to end it.

Thanks a lot

Have you actually talked to them in person about the issue? Listen to their concerns have the data on your stoves emissions available for them and just try to be the good neighbor who listens to their concerns

 

[john26]

Can you smell wood burning fumes when outside? How tall is your chimney?

 

[qwain76]

Can you smell wood burning fumes when outside? How tall is your chimney?

It depends on the days and the direction of the wind. In some days we can smell something staying outside. But we don't see any gray or black smoke. Is the smell necessarily a sign of pollution?

I don't have the exact measures but I guess our chimney is at least 30-36 feet tall. Our house is 1,5 story cape cod and the chimney is well above the tallest point of the roof.
You bring up a good point, in fact in their house they had recently extended the home to a second floor which is definitely taller than my chimney.

 

[john26]

I would try to reload early morning or later at night when the smoke is less noticeable. I burn 24/7 for 3-4 months in the winter most of my reloading is 430am 9-10pm and a light load around 330pm. I don't close the air down as fast in the afternoon. Several of my neighbors have commented when I unload wood they are surprised my house has not been converted to gas logs but I have not had any complaints.

 

[Grizzerbear]

Sounds to me like your probably not going to be able to please them judging they came out and told you that you need to stop burning. I wouldn't change anything....yet. Just be ready for a civil dispute. Maybe contact a lawyer to be prepared and know where you legally stand. They wouldn't have the ground to walk on in a case here on such a matter but in Chicago lol.....i dunno. That's what I would do anyways. Gotta love neighbors. Glad I don't have any.

 

[bholler]

Again go talk to them face to face about it. Explain to them how the secondary combustion system works and give them the emissions data all without being condescending. An honest conversation can go a long way.

 

[kennyp2339]

If things go south, point out the obvious, say your concerned for there lack of insulation and bad windows and remind them how bad drafts are for kids.
In all honesty what @bholler is saying is important, face to face talk, unless they are inconsolable, then go your separate way and continue doing what your doing, you'll never make everyone happy in life.

 

[Riteway]

Again go talk to them face to face about it. Explain to them how the secondary combustion system works and give them the emissions data all without being condescending. An honest conversation can go a long way.

I think this is a great first step. There's lots of credible scientific information available that details the hazards of wood smoke (primarily the release of fine particulates), which I'm sure your neighbor's have looked at. Wood smoke can be particularly hazardous to kids and older folks. But most people don't know that modern wood-burning appliances (coupled with good burning practices) only release a fraction of the particulates that older stoves do. Your neighborhors probably don't know about this (hell, I didn't know about this until I started researching wood inserts last year). If you can find the data, it would be interesting to compare the emissions from an open campfire to a modern stove, and share that with your neighbors.

Legally, if your insert meets the relevant federal and local codes, I doubt they could force you to stop burning. But if you get the feeling that things might escalate into the legal realm, you might want to check with your homeowner's insurance to see if your covered for this sort of thing.

 

[avsmusic1]

Couldn't agree with BHoller's advice more

Do you have the Hybrid-Fyre model?
That's a a pretty darn low emission stove. This may not be the right way to compare so take it w/ a grain of salt but per the first link below that insert has an emission rate of .58gr/hr and per the 2nd link a Subaru Outback releases an average of 308 grams per mile.

(broken link removed to https://www.rochesterfireplace.com/wood-products/wood-inserts/large-flush-wood/)

2021 Subaru Outback AWD

Fuel Economy of the 2021 Subaru Outback AWD. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2021 Subaru Outback AWD side-by-side with other cars and trucks

fueleconomy.gov

 

[john26]

Did your home have a fireplace when you bought it? If it had an open fireplace maybe explain to them that upgraded to to a low emissions hi efficiency unit.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

id just tell them your chimney was there before they moved in. Glad i dont have neighbors like that but im always nervous when someone new moves in around me

 

[Shadetree]

New to burning but I have dealt with neighbors like that myself. If the first thing they did was TELL YOU to stop burning then that most likely indicates that nothing you say will change there mind. They are RIGHT and you are WRONG or the they think. Check with your local government( shudder and good luck there) and make sure what the codes and laws are. Of course if you've been burning for 10+ years some officious type person would have been knocking on your door by now if there was some problem. If they built an addition and did not take into consideration that someone may use their fireplace (you) or ask if you do before hand than sounds like they're trying to make their problem yours. Kinda like the person that buys a house at the end of an airport runway and then complains about the noise. " Something must be done about those airplanes" Save yourself some time and worry and consult a lawyer BEFORE approaching the new neighbors and before you hear from theirs.

 

[NativeCT]

They are going to move into an area and tell you not to do something anymore? Those types of people can kiss both sides of my hind quarters.
That said, I keep my stove smoke down to a minimum.

 

[bholler]

Wow you guys are a cynical bunch. Yes make sure you are in the right code and regulation wise. But why talk to a lawyer or get combative before trying the simple and completely free strategy of talking to the people?

 

[brownson3000]

Wow you guys are a cynical bunch. Yes make sure you are in the right code and regulation wise. But why talk tons lawyer or get combative before trying the simple and completely free strategy of talking to the people?

I agree with Bholler. A pretty level headed approach based on the situation at hand.

 

[Caw]

Wow you guys are a cynical bunch. Yes make sure you are in the right code and regulation wise. But why talk tons lawyer or get combative before trying the simple and completely free strategy of talking to the people?

I feel like the world has become much more cynical as a whole. Where/when I grew up people would never be that demanding up front and/or suggest such aggressive solutions. We all got along and the kids played out in the street. Im not saying it was the better way (maybe I am a little) but thats just how it was. The world is much quicker to get offended or make a big deal out of something small nowadays.

Ok ill get off my soapbox now. Thank you for listening to me pine for simpler times...and I'm not even that old!

Bottom line - talk to these people first. Have some facts in hand but don't debate them on it. Simply broach the subject and see how they respond. If they are completely standoff-ish just back down and thank them for their time and you'll know where it's headed. Maybe they will surprise you and get over the burning (though I find that unlikely given their initial strategy). Give humanity a chance!

PS - I burn a horribly disgusting smoke dragon according to 2020 epa standards. A 2019 Osburn 1600 that produces an alarming and deadly 4.4 gm/hr...I should be arrested, I know, but my neighbors have actually been supportive. They always see me out doing the work. I also only have one close neighbor but it suits my point lol.

 

[bholler]

I feel like the world has become much more cynical as a whole. Where/when I grew up people would never be that demanding up front and/or suggest such aggressive solutions. We all got along and the kids played out in the street. Im not saying it was the better way (maybe I am a little) but thats just how it was. The world is much quicker to get offended or make a big deal out of something small nowadays.

Ok ill get off my soapbox now. Thank you for listening to me pine for simpler times...and I'm not even that old!

Bottom line - talk to these people first. Have some facts in hand but don't debate them on it. Simply broach the subject and see how they respond. If they are completely standoff-ish just back down and thank them for their time and you'll know where it's headed. Maybe they will surprise you and get over the burning (though I find that unlikely given their initial strategy). Give humanity a chance!

Well said

 

[GENECOP]

The neighbors sound like nutjobs, no point in talking to them, make sure you are compliant with all local codes, and tell them TGFT.

 

[bholler]

The neighbors sound like nutjobs, no point in talking to them, make sure you are compliant with all local codes, and tell them TGFT.

Or they are misinformed and know nothing about modern woodburning appliances. Why would you not even make an attempt to resolve tension with neighbors?

 

[bholler]

I feel like the world has become much more cynical as a whole. Where/when I grew up people would never be that demanding up front and/or suggest such aggressive solutions. We all got along and the kids played out in the street. Im not saying it was the better way (maybe I am a little) but thats just how it was. The world is much quicker to get offended or make a big deal out of something small nowadays.

Ok ill get off my soapbox now. Thank you for listening to me pine for simpler times...and I'm not even that old!

Bottom line - talk to these people first. Have some facts in hand but don't debate them on it. Simply broach the subject and see how they respond. If they are completely standoff-ish just back down and thank them for their time and you'll know where it's headed. Maybe they will surprise you and get over the burning (though I find that unlikely given their initial strategy). Give humanity a chance!

PS - I burn a horribly disgusting smoke dragon according to 2020 epa standards. A 2019 Osburn 1600 that produces an alarming and deadly 4.4 gm/hr...I should be arrested, I know, but my neighbors have actually been supportive. They always see me out doing the work. I also only have one close neighbor but it suits my point lol.

Many of the reactions here illustrate the problem you are pointing out just as much as the neighbor in question.

The neighbor is concerned with their kids health that is understandable their concerns are unfounded and hopefully they are receptive to that info. But acting like they are horrible people for looking out for their kids doesn't help anything.

And honestly saying screw you I will do what I want no matter what makes wood burners and our industry look bad. I mean yes ultimately I would just keep burning but I would make every effort to smooth things over first

 

[GENECOP]

Or they are misinformed and know nothing about modern woodburning appliances. Why would you not even make an attempt to resolve tension with neighbors?

If a new neighbor comes into the neighborhood and says “ you should stop burning wood in your fireplace immediately “ that tells me all I need to know about the kind of people they are. They think the world revolves around them , with that kind of mindset, there is nothing to talk about.
It strikes a nerve, I had a neighbor who came over on a Wednesday while I was cutting stones for my outdoor fireplace, it was 2:00 in the afternoon, she asked me not to work at that time because her kids would nap between 2 and 4 pm..Then she called the town on me, the town had to follow up, (procedure). They bothered me for a week or two, then I had my lawyer send the neighbor and the town a letter. Never Heard a word after that. These types in my experience only understand one thing..

 

[bholler]

If a new neighbor comes into the neighborhood and says “ you should stop burning wood in your fireplace immediately “ that tells me all I need to know about the kind of people they are. They think the world revolves around them , with that kind of mindset, there is nothing to talk about.
It strikes a nerve, I had a neighbor who came over on a Wednesday while I was cutting stones for my outdoor fireplace, it was 2:00 in the afternoon, she asked me not to work at that time because her kids would nap between 2 and 4 pm..Then she called the town on me, the town had to follow up, (procedure). They bothered me for a week or two, then I had my lawyer send the neighbor and the town a letter. Never Heard a word after that. These types in my experience only understand one thing..

And if my neighbor asked me that I would do.my best to keep quite so their kid could nap. I remember those days. It comes down to treating your neighbors with respect.


By the world revolves around them do you mean like ignoring a neighbors health concerns or the fact that they have a small child that needs naps. It goes both ways you know.

 

[PaulOinMA]

My nextdoor neighbor commented about pollution and my fireplace. His wife drives around by herself in a 3-ton Toyota SUV. He drove a 500-hp BMW a few miles to work.