first year with stove lessons learned

[slug]

I had a quadrafire 2700i insert put installed last January. Installation charge was pretty high so I figured maybe this isn't a job for me and the wife would feel safer if "professionals" installed it.

Problem #1. When the professionals arrived they said it would be $100 extra for sawzall blades to cut through the flu.
Problem #2. Couple scratches in the mantle when one guy tried to slide the stove in place on his own.
Problem #3. Middle of a thunderstorm in June water is comming in from the chimney. I had to go on the roof in this weather and cover the big whole because their idea of a chimney cap was a thin sheet of metal siliconed to the chimney. There is no way anyone could think this would stay in place for more then a few months.
Problem #4 When I removed the fiber board baffle and ceramic blanket to clean the chimney I find the fiber board baffle is broken in half.
Problem #5 Place I bought it at in town wants $70 for the part. Not covered under warranty.
Problem #6 Email Quadrafire to double check why it's not covered under warranty. Got the impression they couldn't care less about customers. If it's not covered by warranty I can live with that but at lease be friendly to your customers.

My conclusions. #1 install it yourself. #2 Avoid Quadrafire.

 

[hearthtools]

How did he slide the stove across your Mantel?
He must be a big strong guy to get that stove 5 feet in the air and put the stove up on the wall.
LOL
Kidding
What you are saying is hearth.
A mantel is a shelf above your fireplace.


Charge for Blades. that is a new one.

Chase cap.
Yes Always looks at an final installation before you pay.
Chase caps are a must to keep your chimney free of moisture.
http://www.hearthtools.com/install/lineroutchimney.jpg

If the baffle was not broken when you received the stove you are going to have a hard time getting any manufacture to replace it for fee. They get damaged all the time by homeowners loading the stove like gorillas.

 

[begreen]

Your lessons learned seem to have little to do with Quadrafire and a lot to do with picking the wrong installer. I hope they gave you the gold-plated sawzall blades as souvenirs. Did they install a block-off plate in the chimney?

I see no info about how the stove is working or lessons learned about wood burning in it. How is the stove heating?

 

[carpniels]

I concur with Begreen. What did you learn this entire year? Just that the one day the install was done, was a bad one. That is not a years worth of experience.

Baffles are baffles and unfortunately they do break. Your fault, their fault, matter little.

What does matter is that you should call the installer back, tell him your problems, ask him for a good solution and a fair price (free). Give him the chance to rectify what they did wrong. If they do not respond to your satisfaction, mention that you will spread the word about how bad they are and that they should be avoided. Mention their nearest competitor for good measure. If they are running an honest business, they will respond and fix things. If not, spread the bad word and hope they go bankrupt.

Order your replacement part somewhere else.

Carpniels

 

[MrGriz]

I wouldn't come down too hard on Quad; it sounds like all of the problems you mentioned here are related to the installation not the product. I am also curious if they installed a block off plate.

Did you have someone take care of the chimney cap?

I may just have thrown them out when they suggested that it would cost an extra $100.00 for sawzall blades.

Other than the install, how was the first year of burning?

 

[slug]

I'm happy with the stove. For it's size I think it does a good job of heating.

After looking at the installation manual I was thinking they neglected to install anything to fill in the hole in the flu where the new pipe goes through. Is that what you mean by block off plate?

I fixed the cap myself because I didn't want them at my house again. They didn't care about their workmanship the first time, how can I expect them to act when the boss sends them back to the complainer's house? If there is indeed supposed to be another piece blocking the rest of the flu I will go in and talk with them because that is missing too.

 

[treeman08]

It sounds like you had a similar experience to me… I also thought having the “professional install” was the way to go. The dealer set it all up, and said this is the best guy around.
He showed up two hours late, then had to go back home as he forgot to load the cutting torch, and had very little direct knowledge of how to install. It turns out he had worked for the installer for a few years and when the expert retired, he decided that he was now magically the expert.
When I complained to the dealer, they said ‘he doesn’t work for us, you hired him’. He seamed like an honest guy, but just way over his head, and the dealer appeared to not care, as they had already received their money.

 

[hearthtools]

this is why I say stay away from dealers that SUB out their installs.
They normally dont do pre site inspections.
the installers knows nothing about the stoves and how they work.
then when there is a problem they point the finger back at eachother.

 

[begreen]

Good to hear that the stove is satisfying. That's the most important part. The other things while annoying can be corrected.

Here's information on block-off plates, what they do, why they are important, and how to make one.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/

 

[jtp10181]

I believe you are a customer from our shop. I have a note on my desk to give you a call. I was going to call tomorrow since I did not have time today. I also think I already talked to you on the phone about the baffle board. You never said it was broken since installation, I was under the impression you broke it on accident during cleaning and wanted to buy a new one so I quoted you the price. I was planning on making an appointment to come out to your house, inspect the install and get any issues you had taken care of. I am not just saying this because I want to look good posting on here, but was already planning this before I saw the post.

We have never charged a customer extra for saw blades used that I know of, I would be guessing the installers were just joking because they needed a lot of them. I think I actually remember the job because I had to bring them more saw blades.

Also for the record all our "retail" installs are done by 100% member (employed by us) installers. I am sorry for the bad experiences you have had but I want to resolve them if you will let us.

A lot of our installs are done with the top plate simply siliconed down to the clay tiles. Also since I have been a member here I have seen it suggested many times. Our installers have been doing it for as long as I know. The few times we run into problems I have no problem finding another means to secure it down better to the customers satisfaction.

 

[begreen]

A lot of our installs are done with the top plate simply siliconed down to the clay tiles. Also since I have been a member here I have seen it suggested many times. Our installers have been doing it for as long as I know. The few times we run into problems I have no problem finding another means to secure it down better to the customers satisfaction.

I have to agree with this. After the last earthquake I rebuilt the upper part of our chimney (yes it had a SS liner). Then I cleaned the top bricks and siliconed a stiff stainless top plate on it with a generous amount of GE Silicone II. Last spring I removed the plate as I dismantled the chimney. It had been on for about 5 years. The plate was still glued on very solid. I had to work at it to remove it. Maybe the installers were in a rush and didn't clean the brick very well or didn't use enough silicone adhesive?

 

[Gooserider]

Hmmm..... Sounds like there were some significant communications problems, quite possibly on both sides. It does sound like JTP is stepping up to the plate on trying to resolve them though (and I give him credit for being the first to say that it sounded like one of his jobs...)

I hope both of you keep us posted on the resolution and whether both of you are happy that an equitable solution has been reached.

Gooserider

 

[jpl1nh]

I believe you are a customer from our shop. I have a note on my desk to give you a call. I was going to call tomorrow since I did not have time today. I also think I already talked to you on the phone about the baffle board. You never said it was broken since installation, I was under the impression you broke it on accident during cleaning and wanted to buy a new one so I quoted you the price. I was planning on making an appointment to come out to your house, inspect the install and get any issues you had taken care of. I am not just saying this because I want to look good posting on here, but was already planning this before I saw the post.

We have never charged a customer extra for saw blades used that I know of, I would be guessing the installers were just joking because they needed a lot of them. I think I actually remember the job because I had to bring them more saw blades.

Also for the record all our "retail" installs are done by 100% member (employed by us) installers. I am sorry for the bad experiences you have had but I want to resolve them if you will let us.

A lot of our installs are done with the top plate simply siliconed down to the clay tiles. Also since I have been a member here I have seen it suggested many times. Our installers have been doing it for as long as I know. The few times we run into problems I have no problem finding another means to secure it down better to the customers satisfaction.

It takes a good man to step up and say that wherever he was wrong he'd like to take care of it. First class jtp! Lesson to all, this is how it's done.

 

[hearthtools]

A lot of our installs are done with the top plate simply siliconed down to the clay tiles. Also since I have been a member here I have seen it suggested many times. Our installers have been doing it for as long as I know. The few times we run into problems I have no problem finding another means to secure it down better to the customers satisfaction.

We will never do a Flat plat Chimney plate.

We fix to many from other dealers or self installs. Especially with pellet stove inserts.
If you don’t have a good seal water will follow the pipe to the stove and fry the electronics. We have to rebuild at least on pellet insert a year because a self installer or Poor dealer install did not seal off the top of the chimney. OR DID A HALF A$$ partial reline on pellet vent.

This kind of plate is just looking for a reason to make a second trips when you dont have time to make second trips.
We all want to avoid second trips do just do it right the first time. Do a pre site inspections take a measurement of the Clay tile or if the whole chimney needs to be covered measure the whole chimney top.
Charge the customer for the chase in the install bill.
Problem solved.

Some of the large full chimney chase caps we have done.
http://www.hearthtools.com/install/chasecap2.jpg
http://www.hearthtools.com/install/chimney/before_after_chasecap.jpg

more
http://www.hearthtools.com/install/chimney/chasecaps.htm

Or you can use RLH ind quick caps.
(broken link removed to http://www.chim-flex.com/index_files/image4471.jpg)
Wood liner chasecap and cap.


(broken link removed to http://www.thehomestylecollection.com/index_files/image3221.gif)
Direct vent cap all in one

 

[begreen]

Whoa, that job had a lot more wrong with it than just the top plate.

I wish I had a picture of our install. It was a more standard chimney top. I had a full 4" sealing edge around the stainless plate, with a rain collar and proper stainless pipe. When I removed it, it was just like the day I put it up. We're in a rainy climate and the chimney + hearth was always bone dry.


But on an irregular stone cap chimney like the one in the picture I agree that I'd want a full cap. It would be hard to get a good seal otherwise.

 

[hearthtools]

For some reason I cant find any photo of our jobs with just a Edged over chase cap over the clay tile.
but even with the small Tops over clay I want 2" edge on the cap. just so it wont shift over

Here is the rest of that install you say had problem
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/8230/

 

[slug]

Hi,

JPT is right I am their customer. I went in there Friday afternoon and they lady working there was friendly and said she would have Jeff call me and he would probably come inspect it.

To me it seems like they are willing to fix any problems. I must apologise to them for complaining about them before giving them a chance to rectify the problems although I didn't name any names. Still I do think the guys that installed it didn't do a very good job and I shouldn't have to complain in the first place. For the amount I paid for the install it should've been done right the first time.

There is no way the flat cap that was siliconed to my roof would have held in place for very long. I should have left it the way it was and called them but we had a really rainy spell this summer and I needed it fixed immediately. Water was coming in to my living room.

The extra charge for saw blades was not a joke. The original person who came out to my house added $100 to the estimate for this stated reason. I had the option to say no thanks though. At the time I thought I'll pay to get it done right.

As far as the fiber board baffle chances are I probably broke it and I can't blame them. I don't really jam the stove full but it seems pretty easy to break anyway.

 

[slug]

"Problem #1. When the professionals arrived they said it would be $100 extra for sawzall blades to cut through the flu."

I have to appoligize for this because it isn't true. Like I said above I knew about this charge before they came to install.

 

[jtp10181]

Appointment set for next Friday so we will see what I find.

Clarification on the extra $100 charge, it was for cutting the damper out (not just the cost of saw blades). I will have to ask the installer next week if he remembers what was involved with that. This is not the job I was thinking of that I had to take them extra blades.

I will leave it at that until I see what we need to do here.