Fisher Honey Bear stove or acceptable other to existing chimney system

[HillbillyRon]

I have someone who has a new Fisher Honey Bear stove they want to sell me at a very low price. They bought it and never got it installed. My question is mainly will it work for the chimney system I have. The house I recently bought was built by Mennonites in 2000 and from what I can tell is very well constructed. It was built for one of their own. They built a stone veneered masonry (concrete block) chimney on the side of the house with a square clay flue inside, at least that is what is visible at the top. There is no cap on the top. In the basement below grade there is an 8” very heavy steel wood stove connection approximately 5 feet above the floor thru the 12” block wall. It is currently capped but at one time was used for a wood stove. There is no other fireplace/stove connection for this chimney except this. I have all the flue connection pieces from the chimney connection to the stove but the previously owner took the stove with him. I have not taken the cap off the basement flue yet to see what lies behind it but I can. The square clay tile flue maybe is large enough to run a flexible stainless steel duct down but I really don’t know anything about these systems. It looks like the honey bear stove vents (6" flue) straight up when I review the online owner’s manual so not sure if I could run it in this fashion. Anyway with the chimney set up I described would this, or any other woodstove work that would meet code/insurance approval. The builder was smart in that there is a return for the HVAC system nearby where you would put the stove so that you could pull the heat from the basement stove and distribute it to the rest of the house easily with the fan on. Thanks for somehelp on this.

 

[coaly]

As long as the chimney flue is 6 inch. The diameter should be the same as stove outlet all the way up. If your flue is 8 X 8 a stainless liner is needed. No stove can heat the inside of a flue larger than the outlet diameter efficiently. So what you have to leave up cuts the efficiency down with even a larger stove connected. It would require a liner for most newer stoves as well. It doesn't seem like much going from 6 to 8, but the square inch area almost doubles the area to heat inside the chimney. This must stay above 250* all the way up to prevent condensing and rapid creosote accumulation. That's the basics anyway. So you can see how much a insulated liner helps with fuel consumption and keeping cleaner.

 

[HillbillyRon]

Yes I am sure the existing clay tile is larger than 6" round area. Judging by what I have written above do you think a liner can be installed in the chimney without having to cut into the block work itself. I have heard of flexible liners so I thought that maybe you could "feed" this down the chimney and then turn 90 degrees into the 8" steel pipe through the wall. I will call the duravent folks I see above but thought maybe you had alittle experience too.

 

[bholler]

Yes you can drop a liner down inside those old flue tiles but you do not bend it out through the wall there is a 2 part tee that half goes on the bottom of the liner the other half gets fed through the crock and attached. I would recommend having a sweep come and inspect the chimney if the liners are in good shape you may be able to use it. An insulated stainless liner will absolutely work better but there are many of those stoves running fine on 7x7 clay lined chimneys.

 

[coaly]

An insulated stainless liner will absolutely work better but there are many of those stoves running fine on 7x7 clay lined chimneys.

You may be referring to the Bear Series and Fireplace Series?
This is a Honey Bear Series Fireplace Stove that requires the SAME size chimney flue as stove outlet. Refer to page 8 of Owners Manual / Installation Instructions.
https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/Honey_Bear_Convertible_Manual.pdf

Honey Bears have an 18 inch square firebox less the brick lining space, so they are the smallest and don't have the capacity to heat a masonry oversize chimney. They were designed for mobile home use with Metal Fab Inc / Dura-Vent insulated chimney. (they were sold in kit form including air intake and hearth pad) Others are convertible with removable pedestal for conventional housing. Another model is for conventional housing only, and single door models were made.

 

[HillbillyRon]

Thanks for the help. I would not pursue the honey bear stove but the people are practically going to give it to me and it has never been used. Plus it is going in a relatively small basement area and I will need to run the fan on the HVAC unit just to keep things from getting to hot down there probably. I could open up more doors too down there as the total basement area is about 1000 sf almost entirely below grade. There is no way I can get to where the 8" heavy steel pipe intersects the clay tile as it is below grade and probably in masonry. My next step is to pull the cap off in the basement and see how they transitioned from steel to clay. If they put a steel elbow in there then I might and I say might work the flex down to the basement but if it is a pipe straight into a square flue then that surely is not going to work. Like I said I know nothing about the flex so maybe none of this can be done. I would need to drop back with another stove with an 8" connection. I have not inspected the clay tile flue but so far I have been extremely impressed with the craftsmanship of the home. Below is a picture of the chimney. The Minnonites sold the house to someone who did very little maintenance so the logs got no attention since it was built I am guessing so I have cleaned them and started the refinishing process. You can see the dormers on the roof have not been done but even though they look rough they will clean up and stain nicely. The wall that has stain in the photo looked the same way. Anyway I would bet they did a pretty good job on the flue and like I said the entire chimney is built from block with a stone veneer. I had an Appalachian stove insert (Gemini) I installed in my previous house and had to redo the entire chimney with double wall stainless steel Selkirk flue. I loved that stove and hated to leave it. I like the free standing type alot too without a fan as when you lose power you get more heat from them probably.

 

[coaly]

The flex liners are more for a chimney with slight bends or working it around a smoke shelf built into a fireplace. That looks like straight sections would go straight down. Normally the clay liner has a hole in the side with a round piece of flue pipe extending out that you can slip the stove pipe into the liner connector. The Honey Bear size is more geared to place on the living floor next to chimney and cut into it for connection. Probably would not use the elbow embedded into the chimney and cut a new hole into the side of it, above it if possible? That's certainly not my expertise.

Do you know if yours was built by Old Order or New Order Mennonite? Their Ordnung (unwritten rules) differs on what stoves can be used. Kitchen cook stoves must have a left side firebox (considered an Anabaptist stove) and most are 7 or 8 inch, so their homes will not have a 6 inch pipe near the kitchen.

How far from NEPA are you? I have a nice Grandma Bear to trade that is more the size you need. I try to upgrade my collection from used stoves to new ones, and the opportunity doesn't come up too often! I get around to a few Amish settlements a year. Mostly PA and Ohio. My Honey Bear was burned once or twice only, so it's a clean example in my collection. When I removed the bricks there wasn't any ash packed between them and the bricks were not even scorched. It was $200 near Buffalo NY that was about a 5 hour drive to get it.

Now the logs............. I bought a log cabin a few years ago that had no maintenance to the logs since it was built in 1972. They are machined from Finland and brought over as 3 bedroom kits. I have no well and no electric there, so I had to find a way to clean it by hand. I found brushing with Behr Premium All In One Wood Cleaner and rinsing with a hand pump sprayer brought it back like new. I went with Transitions Log Stain by Sashco. I heat it with a Mama Bear now, but that is with no insulation or finished ceiling. I'll have to downsize to a Baby Bear when done.

This home was never finished and I found all the original windows in the basement from Finland that were never glazed or installed. This is the temporary window that was installed for years.

This summer I cut the correct size window openings with chain saw. Notched the log ends and drove 2 X 2 spline to keep logs straight and provide nailer for window frame.

 

[HillbillyRon]

I am down in western North Carolina about 45 minutes southeast of Asheville. I was going to have to drive to Florida to get the honey bear. Probably don't sell many down there. It is sounding like an 8" stove connection is my best bet. I think I have a mix around me of old and new order Mennonites. I think the history of this house was it was built by a son for his father who was a Mennonite pastor (not sure that is what they call them). Anyway he lived in the house for a short period of time and decided it was too nice for him as his congregation mostly lived in lesser places. It was used for traveling families or new people into the community before the previous owner bought it. He was in the military and probably was not there enough to maintain it well. I can't fault him for that since he was serving our country. From what I can tell the house is custom built - no kit. It has a laundry shoot, all kinds of neat built-in cabinets/drawers, all custom oak kitchen cabinetry and I could go on and on. Even though the basement is almost entirely below grade there are no moisture issues at all. The first thing that I noticed was all the fascia boards were pressure treated wood and a lot of detail was done to mitigate any wood rot. The son and dad live across the way and my wife has met his wife once. I think she is glad to see someone buy the house who will get it back to its original state. I respect the mennonite culture and would like to get to know them better but I am not sure how I will be viewed as an outsider. Anyway I will probably be buried with this house so time will tell. By the way I used a product called X-180 to clean the logs and am using an oil based stain. The X-180 works very well but like all log stuff it ain't cheap. Sounds like you got a great place out in the sticks. I came from there and actually after 11 years found I needed a little civilization again. The 4 mile gravel road down the mountain every day was getting old to get to work!

 

[coaly]

They will refer to you as an Englisher, but many friendships exist and they are aware they need the outside world at times to promote their business and sell their wares. They won't feel you are evil, they feel we all have to live IN the world, but not be OF the world. (I might be the only member on here without a cell phone and never text-ed)

The reason behind wanting a plain home is due to pride. The belief is that Lucifer was banished from heaven due to his pride wanting to be worshiped as his own entity. (Satan or the Devil today) Therefore pride is the root of evil. Hence no cars (Old Order) since they will lead to pride, and the same clothing, to alleviate competition. Once you understand these principals you will understand their thinking and rules. If your home was built in a district that doesn't use a common meeting place, they set up benches at the hosting home for that week. For this reason, most basement stairways are cement and very wide to accommodate heavy traffic that day. No Amish will use their religion in their business name, so all "Amish" businesses are actually Mennonite run with Amish made products. A preacher, or Diener in Pennsylvania Dutch is chosen by lot. (a biblical term) Every male in the congregation knows if the "lot" falls on him, he will be the next minister of his church family. Qualified men enter a room with bibles on a table. Only one will have a paper marker hidden in it. The one who picks that bible is the chosen one. This is also used to choose the bishop who is the head over each district. Usually the person who becomes the preacher leaves his occupation for his new full time roll. This happened to the original designer and builder of the Kitchen Queen stove who didn't have a family member willing to take over the business. The manufacturing was taken over by the current owner.
A good information source is the website http://amishamerica.com/.
I'll send you a link showing construction and heating system where I'm a contributor.

 

[HillbillyRon]

Thanks for sharing the info. I am bit like you as I just learned to text recently (only way to get an answer from my daughters) and only have a cell phone because I work so far from home and actually my company gave me one. I am the only one I know who does not have aps on my phone. When I get away from work I use very little technology, I think I was born 200 years too late and horse and plow would be fine with me. In my previous house I did not live off the grid but was about as close to it as you could get. My closest neighbor was over a mile away and in winter there were none when I first moved there. You learn to be your own first responder as help was too far away. My kids hated me for living so far out but I am hoping one day they will realize that what we had in those 11 years was actually quite rare. We became a very close family because of it. Things changed there so it was time for me to move on. No regrets and I believe this house found me and I did not find it. I am looking forward to spending my remaining years piddling with it and actually getting to the folks around me and making those friendships. I believe heavily in the old ways.

 

[coaly]

Wow, you already have the values of your neighbors. They don't reject technology for what it is, they actually use phones for work and even computers for work, but draw the line at bringing the technology into the home due to taking away from family time. It's not about using electricity, it's about the physical connection to worldly things. They use water and wind generated electric, and many barns have solar panels to charge buggy batteries for lights. 'Worldly' people think they are strange, but it takes a higher amount of knowledge to use less technology to get the same results. Refrigeration, air conditioning..... all high power consumption devices using electric are in use without electricity.
Another example is some areas allow bicycles and others only scooters. They actually take old bikes apart and make "kick scoot" scooters with large wheels. The theory is a bicycle with pedals has a much longer range and held to not having pedals, the operator is not going far from home, again taking away from family time together. You'll get along fine with them there. The more they know your values, the more they will accept you.

I've been told I was born 200 years late as well. Running my own business (without a phone) for years I worked on steam locomotives through my slow season at Steamtown. What I learned there firing them and as a steam mechanic, put me in a good position to maintain steam driven farm equipment, pumps and generators. When a few exploded, (and a few close calls) I figured it was time to get away from antique riveted boilers and concentrated on the Fisher, antique cars and tractors. I still get the need for steam, so there's something to the 200 year mark.......

Now we have to work on getting you into a Fisher. One of the reasons I was drawn to them was their simplicity. The inventor did everything possible to keep them to a minimum of parts and for that reason their use continues today. I had been experimenting with all kinds of secondary burn technology to add to them, and finally realized the most simple solution is not preheating intake air in pipes or channels as done with current production stoves, but to use the hottest part of the stove to preheat the air. The baffle. (I don't think any use this design) The one piece that gets the hottest. So I'm working on a "double wall baffle plate" with air space between plates that is the only preheat chamber needed. The air inlet pipe goes through the exhaust vent, so there is no stove modification needed. If it's not simple like Bobby would have wanted, it's not going into a Fisher.

What is your square footage heating requirements for the entire envelope of the building up and down?

 

[HillbillyRon]

Sorry,
Got busy for a few days. I will check this out and get back with you tonight. Been burning my candle at both ends to get the stain on the house before old man winter shuts me down

 

[HillbillyRon]

A few things in the house you might find interesting



Old barnwood wainscott in living room/hall. The little door above the white return grill is the laundry shoot. There is another in the master bedroom just around the corner which also is to the same laundry shoot. The green wall was actually wallpaper and the last owner painted over it. We will need to fix this. There were several areas where wall paper was used instead of paint.

.
Check out the crown molding in the bathroom - a porch post I think.
Same thing is in another bathroom






Loft sewing area. Big drawers in the wall.


To answer your question on area. The main level is 1040 sf with a 473sf loft above that. I also have a full basment which is another 1040 sf. There are two bedrooms down there, a bath and a laundry room which all have ducted heat/air. There is a pantry/canning room which is unducted (would think this will need to stay cool) and there is an unfinished area where the HVAC unit and the wood stove connection is. Vertical height of the living room with loft is probably 22 feet to the very peak of 1 to 1 roof. I will work on getting this all to a square foot number. I am a rockhound as a hobby and have read alot about old mining equipment which was steam fired. many miners lost their lives when those old boilers exploded. I found part of an old boiler door after a major flood at one old mica mine I still have. I met an old man that day who had found one of the finest pieces of aquamarine I have ever seen from this area, the flood had washed it out.