For cellar burners with that down draft problem

[Rich L]

Those of you who burn in the cellar or want to install a Hearthstone Mansfield or Equinox if your having that negative draft problem.I have to open my two cellar windows to start my updraft for my Mansfield.I have an exterior chimney.Though once the Mansfield gets going and during the overnight burn the stove maintains enough heat in the morning that the updraft is still in effect just keep it running.

 

[begreen]

Rich, do you have an outside air supply connected to the stove?

 

[Rich L]

Rich, do you have an outside air supply connected to the stove?

Hey BeGreen,I haven't tried that option.How is it done from the cellar?As long as I keep it going 24/7 the stove stays hot enough after an overnight fire that the up draft is still in effect.Even after reloading before going to work when I get home the draft is still good for the after work reload.So if I keep it burning I only have to open the windows once all season.

 

[VTSR5]

Those of you who burn in the cellar or want to install a Hearthstone Mansfield or Equinox if your having that negative draft problem.I have to open my two cellar windows to start my updraft for my Mansfield.I have an exterior chimney.Though once the Mansfield gets going and during the overnight burn the stove maintains enough heat in the morning that the updraft is still in effect just keep it running.

Rich L,

I burn a big stove in the cellar, and when it is very cold out and the stove is cold, that pipe is full of cold, heavy air and I have to use "special methods" to start my chimney. I've developed a couple of methods that work great for me.

(1) If I hear my furnace running, also in the cellar, I wait until it shuts off before trying to light my stove.

(2) I can pretty much tell when I lay the fire if the downdraft is going to be a problem or not. If the downdraft is strong, I set up the fire, but then close the door for a minute to stop the downdraft before lighting. Then I quickly open the door and light before the air gets moving down again.

(3) Using top-down firestarting has solved 85% of my cold chimney problems in the cellar. That burst of heat right under the pipe really helps get things moving on all but the coldest days.

(4) I'll probably catch hell from you guys for this but on the coldest days, my chimney needs a burst of heat that paper can't provide. I have sucessfully used a paper towel folded into a 2x2 pad and moistened with about a tablespoon of rubbing alchohol -- not dripping, mind you. Just moist. Held with fire tongs, lit and thrust an inch or two up into the stovepipe, it gets things going in about 5 to 10 seconds. The alchohol burns clean, isn't explosive like petroleum products, but burns hot and fast. You can hear the chimney turn by the sound of the air moving past. At that moment, I use the remaining flames to ignite the paper of my pre-laid fire and close the door.

 

[Rich L]

Those of you who burn in the cellar or want to install a Hearthstone Mansfield or Equinox if your having that negative draft problem.I have to open my two cellar windows to start my updraft for my Mansfield.I have an exterior chimney.Though once the Mansfield gets going and during the overnight burn the stove maintains enough heat in the morning that the updraft is still in effect just keep it running.

Rich L,

I burn a big stove in the cellar, and when it is very cold out and the stove is cold, that pipe is full of cold, heavy air and I have to use "special methods" to start my chimney. I've developed a couple of methods that work great for me.

(1) If I hear my furnace running, also in the cellar, I wait until it shuts off before trying to light my stove.

(2) I can pretty much tell when I lay the fire if the downdraft is going to be a problem or not. If the downdraft is strong, I set up the fire, but then close the door for a minute to stop the downdraft before lighting. Then I quickly open the door and light before the air gets moving down again.

(3) Using top-down firestarting has solved 85% of my cold chimney problems in the cellar. That burst of heat right under the pipe really helps get things moving on all but the coldest days.

(4) I'll probably catch hell from you guys for this but on the coldest days, my chimney needs a burst of heat that paper can't provide. I have sucessfully used a paper towel folded into a 2x2 pad and moistened with about a tablespoon of rubbing alchohol -- not dripping, mind you. Just moist. Held with fire tongs, lit and thrust an inch or two up into the stovepipe, it gets things going in about 5 to 10 seconds. The alchohol burns clean, isn't explosive like petroleum products, but burns hot and fast. You can hear the chimney turn by the sound of the air moving past. At that moment, I use the remaining flames to ignite the paper of my pre-laid fire and close the door.

Man I'm sure glad I don't have to go through that routine.The soapstone give off so much heat even after an all night burn that the chimney is still hot enough that the draft is still functioning.My chimney is forty feet high.As long as I keep the stove going I'm all set.

 

[VTSR5]

[quote author="Rich L" date="1226371253 Man I'm sure glad I don't have to go through that routine.The soapstone give off so much heat even after an all night burn that the chimney is still hot enough that the draft is still functioning.My chimney is forty feet high.As long as I keep the stove going I'm all set.[/quote]

Sorry Rich L. I guess I read your post wrong. I thought you were asking for ideas to help with a downdrafting cellar chimney.

 

[Rich L]

[quote author="Rich L" date="1226371253 Man I'm sure glad I don't have to go through that routine.The soapstone give off so much heat even after an all night burn that the chimney is still hot enough that the draft is still functioning.My chimney is forty feet high.As long as I keep the stove going I'm all set.

Sorry Rich L. I guess I read your post wrong. I thought you were asking for ideas to help with a downdrafting cellar chimney.[/quote]
No Sir I'm the one who apologizes to you.After reading my post and my response to you I come off as sounding as if my way is the only way to combat cellar down draft.How foolish of me.You know as I read your post again with a more sober mind your ideas are really interesting.I'm going to try each method and get back to you with my results.I do like the top down method and the alcohol on paper towel.I haven't started the Mansfield yet not cold enough though I'm eager to see if your methods prevent me from opening my cellar windows even if it's just once or twice a year.Thanks for your input because this post is indeed about ways to combat cellar downdrafting.Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

Hey BeGreen,I haven’t tried that option.How is it done from the cellar?As long as I keep it going 24/7 the stove stays hot enough after an overnight fire that the up draft is still in effect.Even after reloading before going to work when I get home the draft is still good for the after work reload.So if I keep it burning I only have to open the windows once all season.

Well, once a season sounds hardly worth it unless there are competing devices for the air supply in the basement. If there are no other devices or exhaust fans down there then it's probably fine. But if there are other fans, a dryer, etc., the more negative pressure down there, the more likely cold air is being pulled in to replace it.

 

[MadTripper]

My stove is in the basement however my basement is only partially underground. Additionally, my chimney is inside. When building, my father-in-law and a contractor friend advised me to tear down the chimney and put it outside to gain floor space. I wouldn't do it because I knew a warm chimney is better than a cold chimney. (I conveniently designed a bathroom closet and my oven around the chimney, both places a little extra heat is welcome).

If I have to draft my chimney, I setup my paper and kindling, open a full sheet of newspaper up and place it on top of the pile, light it and then light the lower, crumpled paper. This is usually enough to pull everything up.

Tripper

 

[Rich L]

Hey BeGreen,I haven’t tried that option.How is it done from the cellar?As long as I keep it going 24/7 the stove stays hot enough after an overnight fire that the up draft is still in effect.Even after reloading before going to work when I get home the draft is still good for the after work reload.So if I keep it burning I only have to open the windows once all season.

Well, once a season sounds hardly worth it unless there are competing devices for the air supply in the basement. If there are no other devices or exhaust fans down there then it's probably fine. But if there are other fans, a dryer, etc., the more negative pressure down there, the more likely cold air is being pulled in to replace it.

Good Morning BeGreen,I do have a dryer in the basement.My house is drafty so maybe that's a good thing?Allowing the stove some air.When the draft is going it sounds like a mini hurricane until I turn it down.However once I finish insulating and sheet rocking the stove room I may have to consider that outside air feed you mentioned so we'll have enough oxygen to go around.

 

[Rich L]

My stove is in the basement however my basement is only partially underground. Additionally, my chimney is inside. When building, my father-in-law and a contractor friend advised me to tear down the chimney and put it outside to gain floor space. I wouldn't do it because I knew a warm chimney is better than a cold chimney. (I conveniently designed a bathroom closet and my oven around the chimney, both places a little extra heat is welcome).

If I have to draft my chimney, I setup my paper and kindling, open a full sheet of newspaper up and place it on top of the pile, light it and then light the lower, crumpled paper. This is usually enough to pull everything up.

Tripper

Hey Tripper,your open paper on top of the kindling idea is another good point that I hadn't thought of.I now have another technique to ponder when I do my first light off in the Mansfield,Thanks.

 

[Todd]

I installed an OAK last year on my basement install and what a difference it made. I think I actually have a positive pressure down there now unless the dryer is running and the heat seems to rise to the upstairs much better. My OAK is a 15' run and goes through a wall to my workshop, then up the wall and out the sill plate just above the top concrete block. If you can keep the pressure higher in the basement than the main level the heat will rise much better. Another trick is to blow the cooler upper level air down to the basement to push the warm air up.

 

[branchburner]

When building, my father-in-law and a contractor friend advised me to tear down the chimney and put it outside to gain floor space. I wouldn't do it because I knew a warm chimney is better than a cold chimney.
Tripper

Good going! Keep spreading the word to contractors, everyone - they'll start giving better advice.

 

[begreen]

Good for you madtripper. It's easy to express opinions and options when you are not the one that has to live with the outcome or expense.

 

[Rich L]

I installed an OAK last year on my basement install and what a difference it made. I think I actually have a positive pressure down there now unless the dryer is running and the heat seems to rise to the upstairs much better. My OAK is a 15' run and goes through a wall to my workshop, then up the wall and out the sill plate just above the top concrete block. If you can keep the pressure higher in the basement than the main level the heat will rise much better. Another trick is to blow the cooler upper level air down to the basement to push the warm air up.

Yo Todd I'd like to know just how your OAK was done.What material did you use etc..I'm more convinced than ever that this is the way to go for my cellar install.Thanks for your input.

 

[Rich L]

Those of you who burn in the cellar or want to install a Hearthstone Mansfield or Equinox if your having that negative draft problem.I have to open my two cellar windows to start my updraft for my Mansfield.I have an exterior chimney.Though once the Mansfield gets going and during the overnight burn the stove maintains enough heat in the morning that the updraft is still in effect just keep it running.

Rich L,

I burn a big stove in the cellar, and when it is very cold out and the stove is cold, that pipe is full of cold, heavy air and I have to use "special methods" to start my chimney. I've developed a couple of methods that work great for me.

(1) If I hear my furnace running, also in the cellar, I wait until it shuts off before trying to light my stove.

(2) I can pretty much tell when I lay the fire if the downdraft is going to be a problem or not. If the downdraft is strong, I set up the fire, but then close the door for a minute to stop the downdraft before lighting. Then I quickly open the door and light before the air gets moving down again.

(3) Using top-down firestarting has solved 85% of my cold chimney problems in the cellar. That burst of heat right under the pipe really helps get things moving on all but the coldest days.

(4) I'll probably catch hell from you guys for this but on the coldest days, my chimney needs a burst of heat that paper can't provide. I have sucessfully used a paper towel folded into a 2x2 pad and moistened with about a tablespoon of rubbing alchohol -- not dripping, mind you. Just moist. Held with fire tongs, lit and thrust an inch or two up into the stovepipe, it gets things going in about 5 to 10 seconds. The alchohol burns clean, isn't explosive like petroleum products, but burns hot and fast. You can hear the chimney turn by the sound of the air moving past. At that moment, I use the remaining flames to ignite the paper of my pre-laid fire and close the door.

Yo VTZJ,I recently tried your top-down firestarting method in my Mansfield in the basement.It worked like a charm the both times I lit the stove using this method.I didn,t have to open a cellar door or window.It was beautiful.Thanks again for sharing this experience.

 

[oconnor]

Knowing what I now know, I should have had an OAK in my last stove. Had the chimney totally reverse one night, smoked out most of the house. Other contributing factors created a bad combination of mechanical depressurization and stack effect, but an OAK would have helped isolate the stove from the problem. here is the story if interested https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/27465/

My concern for you isn't when starting the stove - you will be there when it goes wrong. Flow reversal could happen during the coaling phase in some circumstances - the OAK, and a CO detector of course, would help avoid the problem.

 

[Rich L]

I installed an OAK last year on my basement install and what a difference it made. I think I actually have a positive pressure down there now unless the dryer is running and the heat seems to rise to the upstairs much better. My OAK is a 15' run and goes through a wall to my workshop, then up the wall and out the sill plate just above the top concrete block. If you can keep the pressure higher in the basement than the main level the heat will rise much better. Another trick is to blow the cooler upper level air down to the basement to push the warm air up.

Hey Todd,after reading your above post I went ahead and installed the OAK I recieved from Woodstock last night.I'm anxious to get home from work tonight and fire up the Fireview.I want to see what this OAK experience that everyone is talking about like.I've had the OAK since last week however your post inspired me to get it done.Thanks.

 

[VTSR5]

... Yo VTZJ,I recently tried your top-down firestarting method in my Mansfield in the basement.It worked like a charm the both times I lit the stove using this method.I didn,t have to open a cellar door or window.It was beautiful.Thanks again for sharing this experience.

Thanks for the kind words. Glad I could help. It's a method I use sometimes, but not my original idea of course.

 

[velvetfoot]

Does that Woodstock OAK have a manual damper to prevent the cold air from flowing in when things are cold, or is that not much of a factor?
I would imagine it would backflow easier at ground level rather than down the chimney.

 

[Rich L]

Does that Woodstock OAK have a manual damper to prevent the cold air from flowing in when things are cold, or is that not much of a factor?
I would imagine it would backflow easier at ground level rather than down the chimney.

Hi Velvetfoot,I just fired my OAK up for the first time last night.My Fireview is on an enclosed porch and when the stove isn't going it gets chilly out there.With the OAK installed it didn't feel any chillier.The OAK doesn't come with it's own damper.The dryer vent that I got has an inner lid which stays in the closed position.I taped it open to allow the outside air to flow without obstruction. I think the OAK allows the stove to generate more heat into the house.I don't now why though it was in the twenties last night my wife and I weren't aware of it.I had a hand towel in bed with me to wipe away the sweat.

 

[velvetfoot]

Thanks Rich. It's good that it doesn't feel any chillier. I had an OAK that originally came with the zero clearance fireplace and it was really cold at the hearth.

 

[deadon]

I just installed an Ashely cabinet style wood/coal stove in my son's basement. I used Lowe's super vent stainless flue. we went about 4 foot above the eve of his roof making a 21 foot flue. I thought that would be sufficient. He gets down draft after the stove cools, he cannot fire 24/7 because of work schedules so when he and his wife come home the house smells terribly of wood smoke. He has a dryer and an oil burning boiler in his basement also. I plan on installing another 3 foot section of pipe. What else can I do to stop this problem. I did not start a new thread because this one is leading to solutions for our problem.

 

[VTSR5]

I just installed an Ashely cabinet style wood/coal stove in my son's basement. I used Lowe's super vent stainless flue. we went about 4 foot above the eve of his roof making a 21 foot flue. I thought that would be sufficient. He gets down draft after the stove cools, he cannot fire 24/7 because of work schedules so when he and his wife come home the house smells terribly of wood smoke. He has a dryer and an oil burning boiler in his basement also. I plan on installing another 3 foot section of pipe. What else can I do to stop this problem. I did not start a new thread because this one is leading to solutions for our problem.

This is a fact of life with a cellar stove, in my opinion. A little more height may help get the stack up in the wind more, which is a benefit usually. See my post #3 above for how I combat downdraft in my cellar stove with metalbestos chimney (sounds similar to your set up). Top down firestarting method has practically solved this problem for me except on the coldest of days.

 

[oconnor]

I just installed an Ashely cabinet style wood/coal stove in my son's basement. I used Lowe's super vent stainless flue. we went about 4 foot above the eve of his roof making a 21 foot flue. I thought that would be sufficient. He gets down draft after the stove cools, he cannot fire 24/7 because of work schedules so when he and his wife come home the house smells terribly of wood smoke. He has a dryer and an oil burning boiler in his basement also. I plan on installing another 3 foot section of pipe. What else can I do to stop this problem. I did not start a new thread because this one is leading to solutions for our problem.

Common problem with basement burners is the flue reversal you describe, based on the flue smell. An outside air kit will help isolate the stove and the flue from the relative negative pressure that causes the flue to reverse. Give the guide on residential wood burning in my signature block a read, and review the other sources of depressurisation that can cause the same. I suspect an OAK would help a lot in all situations they describe.