Froling Add-on Install

jebatty

Minister of Fire
Jan 1, 2008
5,694
Northern MN
For the Froling display, I had the sheet metal cover, found a box that it would fit, cut out the openings for the meters, painted the cover red to match the Froling, and then used stick-on lettering.

Data recording can be useful, especially to spot and diagnose any anomaly. I also use DS18b20 sensors to do this. My latest foray into temperature data recording is with a Raspberry Pi computer running a Python program. I did the programming myself, using available programs in Python and then modifying them to do what I wanted. The RPi can handle multiple sensors and with the Python program can be customized and is very flexible. I am hoping this winter, when I have more spare time, to add programming for control (off-on) of devices, like circulators, valves, fans, etc.
 

Chris Hoskin

TarmSalesGuy
Aug 29, 2008
557
Lyme, NH
www.tarmbiomass.com
One disappointment was the fit of the clean out block plate opposite of the clean out door. Must be the welded on nuts are skewed.
View attachment 216620

seems like the left hand mounting bolt must not be engaged properly with the nut behind it? Somethings not right here, can you take another look? As you say, the nuts are welded to the door frame / port and the frame is welded to the boiler. Try loosening the two on the right so that you can adjust the plate/insulation block square to the boiler. Once you have all three bolts started, you should be able to push the assembly against the boiler so that it is flush and then tighten all three screws. This is a gasketed seal and it is important because the exhaust gasses travel back there. Let me know.
 

Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
One disappointment was the fit of the clean out block plate opposite of the clean out door. Must be the welded on nuts are skewed.
View attachment 216620

seems like the left hand mounting bolt must not be engaged properly with the nut behind it? Somethings not right here, can you take another look? As you say, the nuts are welded to the door frame / port and the frame is welded to the boiler. Try loosening the two on the right so that you can adjust the plate/insulation block square to the boiler. Once you have all three bolts started, you should be able to push the assembly against the boiler so that it is flush and then tighten all three screws. This is a gasketed seal and it is important because the exhaust gasses travel back there. Let me know.
I will take a second look. The gasket appears to be making contact all the way around. I will attempt to rectify let you know. Thanks for your support.

By the way, I installed the overheat aquastat in the boiler jacket with the provided well but after reading the Honeywell instructions included with the aquastat they show the bulb being held into the well with either a retainer clamp or compression fitting. Neither was provided. Is it acceptable to just push the bulb into the well?
 
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Chris Hoskin

TarmSalesGuy
Aug 29, 2008
557
Lyme, NH
www.tarmbiomass.com
I will take a second look. The gasket appears to be making contact all the way around. I will attempt to rectify let you know. Thanks for your support.

By the way, I installed the overheat aquastat in the boiler jacket with the provided well but after reading the Honeywell instructions included with the aquastat they show the bulb being held into the well with either a retainer clamp or compression fitting. Neither was provided. Is it acceptable to just push the bulb into the well?
just make sure the sensor is well down in the well and you be fine. Well, well, well!
 
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Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
I have some general hardware questions for you guys that have plumbed your boiler. I'm ordering my tubing, fittings and valves. The plumbing layout provided by Froling say to use weighted swing check valves. While searching Grangers and supply house I cannot find any that are weighted swing check valves, only spring loaded in-line check valves...

Is the in-line spring loaded check ok to use?


Second question is about air removal. I was going to go with the Amtrol Expansion tank with air purged and vent. I already have this setup coming out of my oil boiler and will add this to the outlet of the wood boiler. Is this sufficient for air removal of should i use an air purge thst has a coalescing element to scrub air?

@Chris Hoskin, thoughts?

Screenshot_20171207-170959.png

Screenshot_20171207-171047.png


Amtrol with purge and vent.
Screenshot_20171207-171819.png


Air eliminator only.
Screenshot_20171207-171736.png
 
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brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,079
NE Ohio
I personally have never seen a small weighted check...3-4" and up is my experience...maybe they exist though, IDK...
This is what I'm familiar with as a weighted check valve...
upload_2017-12-7_17-37-54.jpeg
 

Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
I personally have never seen a small weighted check...3-4" and up is my experience...maybe they exist though, IDK...
This is what I'm familiar with as a weighted check valve...
View attachment 217298
Me too. I worked on a 42" anchor darling tilted seat swinging disk check before. I have little residential experience beyond hooking up a water heater. That's why I was asking about the in-line spring check.
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
4,608
Northern NH
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Fred61

Minister of Fire
Nov 26, 2008
2,429
Southeastern Vt.

maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
9,879
Nova Scotia
I just used ordinary swing check valves like in the pic above the expansion tank above. No issues 5+ years later. I think I was warned about possible chattering but haven't heard any of that. I actually took the flapper out of one and drilled a small hole in it to let a bit of water past when heating from backup. Just to maintain my storage temps a bit and also cut down on short cycling of my backup boiler. And I also used just an ordinary air vent like it sounds like what you say you already have. Not much fancy stuff on the supplier shelves here.
 

Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
Thanks guys. @Fred61, I'll probably avoid the watts check valve because it will cost about twice as much as the one I posted above after I buy the NPT to C adapter to sweat it in line.

@maple1, I do already have an Amtrol like in the picture above. It's at the outlet of my oil boiler but I need one at the outlet of the wood boiler as well. Maybe not with fill capability because the other one will fill when water is circulated to the heating zones but I do need expansion capability in the wood boiler loop.
 

nhtreehouse

Member
Feb 11, 2017
64
New Hampshire
I just used ordinary swing check valves like in the pic above the expansion tank above. No issues 5+ years later. I think I was warned about possible chattering but haven't heard any of that.
All the literature suggests a minimum of 12 pipe diameters straight run before the swing check. I'm working on piping right now and things are a bit tight, space wise. Any idea how long your straight run is before the swing check? I might be able to get 12D, but I'll likely have a full port ball valve in there. Piping seems like a huge compromise every way one looks at it.
 

Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
All the literature suggests a minimum of 12 pipe diameters straight run before the swing check. I'm working on piping right now and things are a bit tight, space wise. Any idea how long your straight run is before the swing check? I might be able to get 12D, but I'll likely have a full port ball valve in there. Piping seems like a huge compromise every way one looks at it.
Since @maple1 didn't reply I'll give you my opinion. A full port ball valve wind make much turbulence and if you can get 10 pipe diameters instead of 12 you'll still be fine.
 

maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
9,879
Nova Scotia
All the literature suggests a minimum of 12 pipe diameters straight run before the swing check. I'm working on piping right now and things are a bit tight, space wise. Any idea how long your straight run is before the swing check? I might be able to get 12D, but I'll likely have a full port ball valve in there. Piping seems like a huge compromise every way one looks at it.

Missed your question. I just looked. I only have 3" in front of one and 5" in front of the other. Had no idea about the 12x talk when I put this stuff together, but haven't seen any ill effects.
 

Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
Ok, I've been dragging my feet long enough. I searched high and low looking for the best deals on copper and fittings and trying to figure out how this all gets plumbed together. It was a close tie but I chose to go with SupplyHouse.com over coppertubingsales.com

When it came down to it, it was within $20 for the common parts at each store. The cavet was supply house doesn't sell copper tubing and the other site did so I use my local hardware store prices to supliment the tubing in my cost comparison. Even though supply house was only about $20 higher, I still needed some more things from supply house so I went with one stop shopping.

Thst being said, I bought everything I think I needed minus the tubing and it was $500. EEK.
Plus someone gave me about $60 in fittings for free. Also, I still need about 40' of 1-1/4" type M tubing which is $42/10' locally.

More to follow. While I'm waiting for the copper to come in I'll start tallying up all the other expenses made thus far. So begins the sulking also. Let there be bourbon I say.
 
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maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
9,879
Nova Scotia
I would maybe suggest not tallying anything until perhaps 2 years from now - it won't sting QUITE as bad.

Also, there were at least 10 times through my build when I said 'there, I have everything I need now'. Only to find myself running back to the supplier the next day.
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
4,608
Northern NH
I must admit, if I am doing a big piping project, I visit home depot and buy more fittings than I need then return the ones I dont use. I make sure they are kept in good condition and they do end with a pretty good net sale.
 
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Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
I must admit, if I am doing a big piping project, I visit home depot and buy more fittings than I need then return the ones I dont use. I make sure they are kept in good condition and they do end with a pretty good net sale.
They don't have crap for 1-1/4" fittings beyond an elbow. What they did have is twice as much as you can buy them for online. Lowes 1-1/4" elbow CxC is $7.04, supply house has them for $2.90. When you need 10 or 12 fittings that kind of mark up gets ridiculous. I mapped every thing out on paper and bought what I unlink I need. If I'm one or two short I'm run to town and get a few fittings but that's it. Normal retail is outrageous.
 

hiker88

Burning Hunk
Aug 3, 2011
239
Central Maine
Hi Marshy,

I haven't logged on in a long time; did it today out of a whim. Looks like you and I will have about the same setup. I have the Solar Technics 820 gallon system, and the BLT controller from Tarm as well.

Yesterday it was about a high of 17f. Spent the day at 70f indoors with the main door open, and just the glass storm door between us and the elements (we like to let the light in). The system is still going strong and I don't worry about heat anymore.

Let me know if you have any questions; I'll try and check back in more regularly.
 

Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
Thanks for tuning in Hiker88. I put up some sheetrock in the boiler room over the weekend. Still have a lot of rock to put up but need to get the insulation done. All the funky surfaces in the celing need insulating and I have no nailer in the corners so some are just floating. Other area are getting getting ridgid foam board for insulation before rock. Should look a lot different next time I show pics. Motivation is high right now because I'm sick of bringing in arm loads of firewood. That and my shenandoah stove is quite inefficient.
 

Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
812
NY
Current status...
20171228_214315.jpg


Edit: if anyone is reading this and about to sweat their own plumbing system, always put the union in line with the threaded adapter it will make your life easier! Either that or sweat the elbow on after the threaded adapter is installed.
 
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huffdawg

Minister of Fire
Oct 3, 2009
1,447
British Columbia Canada
Current status...
View attachment 219059

Edit: if anyone is reading this and about to sweat their own plumbing system, always put the union in line with the threaded adapter it will make your life easier! Either that or sweat the elbow on after the threaded adapter is installed.
Some nice clean sweating there. Is that your near boiler piping?
 
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