Fumes from outside of flue - losing will to live!!

[Andy Pandy]

Hello all, perhaps someone could enlighten me on an ongoing problem.
We moved to a new build home 2 years ago that had a multi-fuel stove installed in the lounge.
It ran well for a month or two and then started to get a very acrid smelling liquid residue running down the outside of the enamelled pipe when it gets hot, bubbling and fizzing and stinking the house out.
To give the builder credit he has tried to resolve the issue but I'm rapidly losing the will to live with the problem and am considering contacting NHBC to get the problem resolved. Before I do though I thought I'd see if anyone can shed some light on the problem.
The builder has changed and re-sealed the mushroom between the flue and stove.
We have also tried changing wood and running the stove very hot to try to 'burn off' the problem.
None of which seem to have worked.
Could anyone enlighten me as to anything I could look at?
Many thanks
Andrew

 

[begreen]

What you are describing sounds like what happens when stove pipe and chimney are installed upside down. Can you post a picture or two of the stove pipe? Maybe one close up showing the dripping joint and then one a bit further back.

 

[Andy Pandy]

Upside down? It's a straight pipe out of burner into mushroom and into flue. Couple of pics attached. This was after lighting twice after a thorough clean. Hope they help.

 

[CenterTree]

then started to get a very acrid smelling liquid residue running down the outside of the enamelled pipe when it gets hot, bubbling and fizzing and stinking the house out.

As stated, it definitely sounds like the pipe is installed incorrectly. The pipes should seat inside of each other in a way that would allow any "liquid" (which is creosote) to run back down inside of the lower pipe. Upper pipes going INTO lower pipes.

Good news is, it should be a fairly easy fix.

 

[Andy Pandy]

Okay makes total sense, the creosote then gets burned and expelled through the flue. Will pass this by the builder and see what he thinks. Many thanks.

 

[Bad LP]

Good news is, it should be a fairly easy fix.

Turn the house upside down?

 

[blades]

Or perhaps the whole system is running on single wall flue flue pipe or fed into a masonry flue system . Which will not provide any type heat retention the further it gets from the stove outlet. Multi fuel stove ? as in pellet/ corn/ pits or as in solid fuel and some more conventional type as NG . As noted above the liquid is creosote- highly flammable- it is formed when flue gasses are allowed to condense due to a cold flue. It is also possible that if it is a masonry flue that it is oversized- same results. Proper installation of a insulated flue system would likely resolve the problem. more details requested.

 

[begreen]

Yes, multifuel, which comes as briquettes, peat blocks in Scotland.

I would have the entire system inspected by a pro sweep. The builder may have been doing you a favor but so far has not shown some basic necessary knowledge for flue installation. One has to wonder if other mistakes were made that could be life threatening.

 

[Andy Pandy]

It's a new build and we are mainly burning hardwood. I've been told that it's a earthenware/concrete/pottery (sorry don't know exactly) flue insulated with vermiculite. Sounds like the best thing I can do is either get a specialist installer to have a look or get the NHBC to come in and inspect it.

 

[blades]

Sorry I missed that you are from Scotland. Insufficiently dried hardwood or softwoods ( internal moisture content less than 20%) will cause creosote- hot fire not withstanding, as most of energy (heat) is being used to dry out the fuel . Maybe try some of the compressed briquettes or peat blocks. Those in theory should be at apx 12% The internal liner in your flue we call terracotta, might be a more specific name ( fired clay of a type here they are orange in color)

 

[Andy Pandy]

The wood is pretty dry as its been stored in a shed. However I'd say that even if it's got too high a moisture content the creosote shouldn't be running externally down the flue unless there is a problem. I'll get some briquettes and smokeless coal and see if the problem resolves. Thanks for all the feedback and comments so far. It's much appreciated.

 

[begreen]

The wood is pretty dry as its been stored in a shed. However I'd say that even if it's got too high a moisture content the creosote shouldn't be running externally down the flue unless there is a problem. I'll get some briquettes and smokeless coal and see if the problem resolves. Thanks for all the feedback and comments so far. It's much appreciated.

Get it fixed properly. Resolving the issue by changing the fuel is treating the symptom and ignoring the problem.

 

[webby3650]

That’s a very strange setup for a masonry flue. I’m betting that the pipe simply terminates above that plate into the bottom of the flue. You can see creosote running out around the plate as well as around the pipe. Get someone in there to look at that installation before you use it anymore.
Wood stored inside a building isn’t always a good thing. Drying takes place very very slowly if there’s no air movement and sun. It may not be as dry as you think. I suspect it’s quit wet concsidering how much creo water is running down.

 

[Andy Pandy]

Update from yesterday, used alternative fuel and no problems with creosote, so it looks like my wood has a too high a moisture content at the moment. That just leaves the issue that the flue leaks the creosote externally. Thanks all for the advice.

 

[kennyp2339]

Hate to say this but, this will be a re-occurring issue, you need a stainless steel liner installed to mate the metal pipe and ran to the top of the chimney, also you need to clean all the creosote out of the current setup. The issue is that the creosote can light on fire, also the smell when can develop during the warmer months or inversion days.

 

[blades]

I stand vindicated on the fuel issue, Concour on the liner and prior to that a very good cleaning of the existing system.

 

[ShawnLiNY]

Andy as stated by several people above , you have not resolved the issue at all . Flip the pipe swedge ( smaller ) end Down

 

[Kevin Weis]

If you burn peat or coal, no creosote but would still have leakage and flyash issues with this I would think. Recommend getting a complete inspection and rebuild of the system as per above recommendations. Kevin

 

[ShawnLiNY]

If you burn peat or coal, no creosote but would still have leakage and flyash issues with this I would think. Recommend getting a complete inspection and rebuild of the system as per above recommendations. Kevin

True he would not have a creosote issue , but any condensation or rain inside pipe is going to rinse soot and leak out joints , this problem is only going to worsen with time , when pipe is facing the proper direction any excess moisture to make it down the pipe will drip into the stove .

 

[kennyp2339]

True he would not have a creosote issue , but any condensation or rain inside pipe is going to rinse soot and leak out joints , this problem is only going to worsen with time , when pipe is facing the proper direction any excess moisture to make it down the pipe will drip into the stove .

I think this is called a direct connection, (1) set up from a slammer, a slammer is a stove that's installed in the fire place with no pipe, a direct connection is a stove in a fireplace that has a short section of metal flue pipe connected into the masonry with a block off plate, no liner to the top of the chimney, so what ever what the pipe is connected it will always have the possibility of leakage at the block off plate.

 

[LondonNeil]

Scottish building regs may differ from English ones but I suspect the flue is built of premade, stacked sections of a concrete type block. It should then have a flue adapter, an inverted metal cone like thing, to join to the viscous enamel flue pipe.

(broken link removed to https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Internal-Clay-Concrete-Pumice-Liner-Adaptor-5-8-/270767028588?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-53481-19255-0%2F1%3Futm_source%3Dtwenga%26utm_param%3DeyJlcyI6MCwicyI6OTcyMDIzNywiY2kiOiIwM2EwZDg2NmM1YjIzOTJkNmVkMDE5NzEwMzU0NGQ2NiIsImkiOiI2MjE3NDQzNTM4ODczNjgwNTUyIiwidHMiOjE1NDU0Nzk2MzcsInYiOjMsInNvIjoxNTAwLCJjIjoyMDU2NH0%3D%26utm_campaign%3Dtwenga%26utm_medium%3Dcpc%26ff3%3D4%26pub%3D5574631662%26toolid%3D10001%26campid%3D5338243305%26customid%3D03a0d866c5b2392d6ed0197103544d66%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fitm%252FInternal-Clay-Concrete-Pumice-Liner-Adaptor-5-8-%252F270767028588%26srcrot%3D710-53481-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1791992521757%26rvr_ts%3Dd5c3cfd71670add885d337c6ffc3e50c&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true)

Although I read they aren't perfect always.

What you seem to have is just a register plate with a hole, enamel pipe through it and (hopefully) ending a few inches above. That is allowed, but sealing is a pain, as you've found!
Looks to me the builder has fabricated that attempted seal.
Google top hat adapter.... You'll find register plate with pipe fitting, this is the better way I believe
(broken link removed to https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/142885207915?chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fi%25252F142885207915%25253Fchn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D142885207915%2526targetid%253D547838543400%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9045877%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1506528459%2526adgroupid%253D59698560442%2526rlsatarget%253Daud-494594439052%253Apla-547838543400%2526abcId%253D1139606%2526merchantid%253D113803384%2526gclid%253DCjwKCAiA3vfgBRB9EiwAkfpd3LN92qmemrNq_4ZENTQnqEoR4s7AD6t-5oqXzH0ZT0gkikOAek-goRoCV9sQAvD_BwE%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1791991423656%2526rvr_ts%253Dd5c933b21670aadc8d41f64effcf4561)

And your wood is sopping wet, don't burn wet wood, you'll smoke out your neighbours and creosote your flue badly. Learn to use the stove properly, you'll enjoy it and be safe then.

 

[Andy Pandy]

Scottish building regs may differ from English ones but I suspect the flue is built of premade, stacked sections of a concrete type block. It should then have a flue adapter, an inverted metal cone like thing, to join to the viscous enamel flue pipe.

(broken link removed to https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Internal-Clay-Concrete-Pumice-Liner-Adaptor-5-8-/270767028588?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-53481-19255-0%2F1%3Futm_source%3Dtwenga%26utm_param%3DeyJlcyI6MCwicyI6OTcyMDIzNywiY2kiOiIwM2EwZDg2NmM1YjIzOTJkNmVkMDE5NzEwMzU0NGQ2NiIsImkiOiI2MjE3NDQzNTM4ODczNjgwNTUyIiwidHMiOjE1NDU0Nzk2MzcsInYiOjMsInNvIjoxNTAwLCJjIjoyMDU2NH0%3D%26utm_campaign%3Dtwenga%26utm_medium%3Dcpc%26ff3%3D4%26pub%3D5574631662%26toolid%3D10001%26campid%3D5338243305%26customid%3D03a0d866c5b2392d6ed0197103544d66%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fitm%252FInternal-Clay-Concrete-Pumice-Liner-Adaptor-5-8-%252F270767028588%26srcrot%3D710-53481-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1791992521757%26rvr_ts%3Dd5c3cfd71670add885d337c6ffc3e50c&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true)

Although I read they aren't perfect always.

What you seem to have is just a register plate with a hole, enamel pipe through it and (hopefully) ending a few inches above. That is allowed, but sealing is a pain, as you've found!
Looks to me the builder has fabricated that attempted seal.
Google top hat adapter.... You'll find register plate with pipe fitting, this is the better way I believe
(broken link removed to https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/142885207915?chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fi%25252F142885207915%25253Fchn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D142885207915%2526targetid%253D547838543400%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9045877%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1506528459%2526adgroupid%253D59698560442%2526rlsatarget%253Daud-494594439052%253Apla-547838543400%2526abcId%253D1139606%2526merchantid%253D113803384%2526gclid%253DCjwKCAiA3vfgBRB9EiwAkfpd3LN92qmemrNq_4ZENTQnqEoR4s7AD6t-5oqXzH0ZT0gkikOAek-goRoCV9sQAvD_BwE%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1791991423656%2526rvr_ts%253Dd5c933b21670aadc8d41f64effcf4561)

And your wood is sopping wet, don't burn wet wood, you'll smoke out your neighbours and creosote your flue badly. Learn to use the stove properly, you'll enjoy it and be safe then.

Thanks, yes there is an flue adaptor above the register plate, the enamel flue terminates into this just above the plate, I'm suspecting that this adaptor is where the leak is occurring. The builder will be back in the new year and I'll point out all the help and responses to them.