Furnaces or wood stoves in garages

[elkimmeg]

Code states that furnaces and hotwater heaters have to be have their fire box chamber located 18" above the floor. The area below the 18" Is where the greatest potential for gas fumes concentratetiion. I might also add, that furnaces garages can not take combustion air from a garage. Each one has to have a sealed outside combustion air feed. also the are required to be protected from colisions with auto. An imbedded lally collums or a protection barrier must be installed.

Then why not a wood burning appliance?
Well how many times do you open the fuel door to that gas water heater to feed it gas canisters? Has anyone ever seen a spark or glowing ember excape out the open loading door? Does it fall up hill so that it stays above 18" My gas water heater, I have looking 30 years to figure out how to move the primary air control. But that is not a factor here beccause, he has code compliant sealed intake air directly attached to the combustion chamber. No one would risk drawing in volital combustion air from a garage would they? Would one really want to admit they are currently doing this. Then question Why code is trying to protect them?

Job security job security

 

[Roospike]

Well , You already know about my woodstove in my "shop" that looks like a detached garage.

I have a Electric 5 gallon hotwater heater in the bathroom and i mounted it 22" off the ground for multi reasons.

The wood stove is 21" off the ground in its own corner and installed as a home stove would be to code. ( clearance / ceiling support / stainless steel class A double wall pipe / roof boot / cap /ect..

Good information ELK on supply air needs to be from outside ........... This is something i didnt think about and is something i need to address ASAP .

Whats the deal with all the "garage" heaters that sit on the floor and are gas operated ? One would think they couldnt be sold for or as "garage heaters" .

 

[Highbeam]

Odd since my last home's water heater and NG furnace both took all their air in from the garage. Nothing but a exhaust pipe and gas feed for them (furnace had alectric for the blowers). All the neighbors were the same way in this subdivision built between 1999 and 2001. Maybe a new rule about the intake air? Maybe location specific.

My father's home in another county also uses garage air for his NG appliance intakes.

I wouldn't say we live in a podunk or rural area either.

 

[elkimmeg]

Highbeam not all building inspectors are versed in the mechanical codes. Not alll towns have mechanical inspectors. The Codes quoted in NFPA 211 date back to before 1990
that address hazzardeous locations None of this is new or change after your home was built. In this case two wrongs do not make right. the person installing has not read the code or the installation manuals and the inspectors are equally delinquent. Till today so were you and hopefully a few others will make provisions to be safer. There is no said time a disaster can happen It may never happen but the danger is as simple as a leaking fuel line or tipped over gas can leaking gas tank. The code is not there to bust one cononies but to protect them from that one unpredictiable time.
Get this:I would not sign off an the new fire station police station in my town, because they had the massive gas hot water heater in a garage, without collusion protection.
They wanted to argue with me about its need for the protective barrie.r One of the firemen backing in the town boat hit the tank and puncured a hole in it and broke the gas line. The entire building was evaculated and most of the down town. From that point on nobody was arguing with me about the need for protection .

 

[Highbeam]

It makes very good sense that the fresh air intake be sealed from the garage air. I guess it is like the speed limit though, seems noone does it.

Thanks for the reference.

 

[ozarkjeep]

whats the name of the town?

got a news link or some other reference for this?
it would seem like a pretty funny incident.

Get this:I would not sign off an the new fire station police station in my town, because they had the massive gas hot water heater in a garage, without collusion protection.
They wanted to argue with me about its need for the protective barrie.r One of the firemen backing in the town boat hit the tank and puncured a hole in it and broke the gas line. The entire building was evaculated and most of the down town. From that point on nobody was arguing with me about the need for protection .

 

[mtarbert]

Would someone tell me what a "Hotwater Heater" is?.....If you have Hot Water why would one need a heater for it ??

 

[BrotherBart]

Would someone tell me what a "Hotwater Heater" is?.....If you have Hot Water why would one need a heater for it ??

To keep it from becoming cold water again.

 

[Highbeam]

Mtarbert got me fair and square, indeed it is a water heater. However, keeping hot water hot is what it does most of the time.

 

[elkimmeg]

whats the name of the town?

got a news link or some other reference for this?
it would seem like a pretty funny incident.

Get this:I would not sign off an the new fire station police station in my town, because they had the massive gas hot water heater in a garage, without collusion protection.
They wanted to argue with me about its need for the protective barrie.r One of the firemen backing in the town boat hit the tank and puncured a hole in it and broke the gas line. The entire building was evaculated and most of the down town. From that point on nobody was arguing with me about the need for protection .

there is more to the story I'm arguing with the fire chief quoting NFPA. This is going to be a long response an with plenty missed grama and miss spellings, but if you weed through it one will see the iorny of the situation Comical in a way so here goes .
The total public safety building is costing the town 14 mill. Originally the hot water heaters were located in a mechanical room which housed the facility's h boiler as well all cramned intoa 10/10 room. These hot water heaters are 42" round and 7'6" high. they were placed in a way if they needed service both would have to be drained down and disconnected just to get at the controls. Ther were placed in the room before the cement block wall was biult and access door installed Now Iam requested to do a rough inspection the first question I had was code compliance to serviceability. I then asked them how a 42" by 7'6" water tank could fit througha 36" by 6'8" door, should they have to be replaced. Again code governs the ability for access and replacement since they hav a 7 year warranty you know they will have to be replaced The make up combustion air vent as spected for only the boiler and the additional 500,000 btus of the hot water heaters have no combustion air factored for the mechanical room Let me tell you crap hit the fan when I failed the rough because of the hot water heater locations. A lot of people are pissed at me including the selectmen who hired me. The first question they asked me is why I did not pick this up during plan review. I remind them I'm paid per inspection and not compensated for plan review and not required to do so. I told them I would be more than willing to participate in plan review if I were compensated but I was not hired to do so. They asked me to submit the code violations and language whiich I had prepared and I asked if I should be compensated for cor doing research and preparing their response. I prodiuce indesputable code to support my not passing the current location. Plus a lot of common sense about future replacement ie the block wall would have to be dismantled to replace them..

I even offered them the solution of where they could be located in the boat storage garage. The archetech says it can't be done so I asked him since he is signing off the job to code compliance when he has had a session in front of the review board because this is where it is going. He can' knowingly sign off code violations Imagine the cost of re piping hot water, cold water, and gas lines plus sepoarate closed outside air feeds. plus down to the lower floor. Naturally the plans have to be re-drawn ans overrides approved because the original specs did not allow for relocation. Yeah the black wall has to be removed to get them out then the outside block wall removed ot lower them down to the first level. total price for the relocation is $250,000 So the arcutech submits a change order to the town to authoorize the $250,000 revision Ther are a lot of people mad at me plumbers the selectmen everbody involved withthe project ad this will create a delay firemem police man everbody is pissed at me for not ignoring code and I cost the town delays and $1/4 mill but I'm right. A lot of heat is applied in my direction. I live in the town and pay taxes there and it behoeves me that the arcuteck screwed up preparing plans and it is my fault. I ask the selectman would they allow me to straighten it out. all i need is one phone call to the archuteck ( I know sp) they allow the call and I remind him that he submitted plans that were not code compliant the arcuteck got 2.5 mill for the bogus plans plus gets 10% of the project cost to bring it in. I told to prepare to look foolish in front of the review board ,as I will expose his deliquencies should he push the matter to that extent.
All of a sudden it not going to cost the town one cent more as the contingency funds would be used.
The 2 gas hot water heaters were relocated in the boat garage as suggested but no protection from collosion was spected. . Code provides for protection for the very reason i it turned out to be needed To re-write the specs and install the two lally collums the arcutech gives the town a $5000 estimate. Before it was voted the incident happened. tT this day nobody thanked my for holding the town best interest in mind. I don't know where the money came from to install two $20 lally collums.

All this doing my job and being paid $25 per inspection

 

[MrGriz]

All that for $25.00.....Somebody got a bargain....

If that was your typical govt job it would have taken four or five of you and the bill would have had a bunch more zeros.

 

[kevinmoelk]

Good story Elk. 250K to move some water heaters and 5K for some lally columns? Makes you wonder how efficient tax dollars are being spent. Hats off to you for not bending to politicians and other complainers. Must have been tough those couple days when everyone was giving you the stink eye.

-Kevin

 

[Gooserider]

Just as a theoretical question, and it is just theory since AFAIK nobody makes something that would fit this configuration, would a wood burner be legal if in addition to an outside air feed and 18" high fire box, it had the loading door through the wall on the outside of the garage?

I was thinking of something on the order of one of those wood burning furnaces stuck into the wall so that it would have the hot air blowing inside the garage, but get its combustion air and firewood loading from outside.... Obviously there would have to be appropriate clearances / heat shielding between the sides of the furnace and the walls, etc.

It is just speculation but seems like a neat idea on how to solve the problem of heating a garage without running up the utilities.

Also what is it that defines a "garage" as opposed to a "shop" (I assume a shop could use a stove?)

Gooserider

 

[elkimmeg]

Since garages are considered hazzardeous locations, did you know it is illegal to have an ash cleanout door in a garage? During rough inspections if found, they are relocated to the outside or any other safe place not in the garage. Imagine having gas fumes being sucked threw a drafty ash cleanout door, into the living space ,into an operating fireplace?