Garn Chimney Through Roof?

[Sawyer]

I talked with Jim at Garn today and he said if I wanted a vertical flue I am best off ordering it pre-built into the Garn rather than using the Dura Tech elbow. It would be built right into the Garn and elbow up it the same position as the flue adapter would if purchased separately. He said to make an order change as soon as I can as it cannot be done once the unit is started into production. After reading the installation manual it says the Garn should only be vented through the wall and then up the “outside” of the building. I am confused and was not able to get back to anyone at Garn but the message machine. Does anyone have knowledge on this installation? I am also waiting for a reply from Duravent.

Thanks, George

 

[brad068]

George, if you go vertical I would place a tee on the back not just a elbow and make alittle drain out the bottom of the tee to catch condensate especially at cold startups. they will pour water out the flue until they get up to 120* water thats why they recommend horizontal flue to discharge the condensate automatically.

 

[Jim K in PA]

George,

Of course I do not have personal experience with the GARN other than my own, but if you need/want a vertical flue, I agree with Jim that it would be best to have the vertical vent incorporated in the unit. I think the design options on the GARN have outpaced the editing of the installation manual, hence the perceived conflict in the directions. Given that it is a pressurized flue vent at this point, I would rather not have the extra elbow and connections to seal.

I guess you do not have the free space to utilize the horizontal direct vent option? I am using 1 3' length of Duratech vent and then the elbow down toward the spark can.

 

[Sawyer]

George, if you go vertical I would place a tee on the back not just a elbow and make alittle drain out the bottom of the tee to catch condensate especially at cold startups. they will pour water out the flue until they get up to 120* water thats why they recommend horizontal flue to discharge the condensate automatically.

I can understand your concern, when I asked Jim Saufferer he said there was not a clean-out on the elbow and the fly ash from the chimney cleaning and tubes would be removed from the fan opening. I hope they are designing this properly. My guess is that it would be better to have the pipe an integral part of the boiler for chimney support. I know from reading that you built your own so you definately know a lot more than I about these boilers. I will be talking with my dealer in Mosinee at 6am tomorrow so perhaps I will get good ideas from him also.

Thanks for the time, George

 

[Sawyer]

George,

Of course I do not have personal experience with the GARN other than my own, but if you need/want a vertical flue, I agree with Jim that it would be best to have the vertical vent incorporated in the unit. I think the design options on the GARN have outpaced the editing of the installation manual, hence the perceived conflict in the directions. Given that it is a pressurized flue vent at this point, I would rather not have the extra elbow and connections to seal.

I guess you do not have the free space to utilize the horizontal direct vent option? I am using 1 3' length of Duratech vent and then the elbow down toward the spark can.

Jim,

I want to face the loading door of the Garn to daylight so I can put pallets of firewood through the rollup door and place them in front of the Garn. In my case this puts the outlet under the overhang so I cannot go straight out the back with the pipe, a 90* bend is not allowed. When I looked at my dealers Garn he had a vertical stack. He said he started with a horizontal but changed when his eaves and fascia got sooty. We could still see the black areas when my wife and I visited him this summer. I am not sure if this is a problem others have had or it is just the way he burns.

Watching for more pictures, George

 

[Sawyer]

I just recieved this answer to my question of "Thru the roof" from Jim Saufferer.

"Yes you can. The powers that be. Will probably change all wood burning units to be vented vertical. We burn so clean horz. is no problem. Jim"

 

[Sawyer]

Last email:

Is there a drain in the elbow for condensate and ash? Will the elbow support the chimney or is a chimney support also necessary?

Please let me know. Thanks, George


"No condensate drain necessary, and yes the GARN unit will support the vent pipe. Jim"

 

[Jim K in PA]

I just recieved this answer to my question of "Thru the roof" from Jim Saufferer.

"Yes you can. The powers that be. Will probably change all wood burning units to be vented vertical. We burn so clean horz. is no problem. Jim"

Hmm. I find this odd. To me, the horizontal direct vent was one of the KEY features of the GARN that I wanted. I did not want to build a chimney, even a SS pipe one, if I could avoid that. Hopefully they will still offer the option of a horizontal discharge point for those that want it.

 

[Sawyer]

I agree Jim, if my Garn was in a good spot I would like to use a vertical chimney also.

 

[brad068]

I agree Jim, if my Garn was in a good spot I would like to use a vertical chimney also.

Guys,

Just from what I've seen and experienced with my unit, I would still highly recommend the horizontal flue. These units are awesome don't get me wrong, but the cans that are outside at the end of the flue are to collect sparks. Now when you run vertical and have some fast burning fuel it will look like your having a early, (or late) 4th of July. As a matter of fact, when I reposition mine, I am going to make a cyclonic collector on the back to catch sparks and moisture. Kind of on the order of a dust collector for wood shops. I'm thinking of mounting the fan on top of the collector and still discharging horizontal. The fan will be in a cooler environment and there will be more room up front and I can insulate the front better.

And I already mentioned about the condensate. Running vertical on a cold start is like putting a 6"-8" P-trap on the flue. These units are sealed up good from the factory but after a few years and flue cleanings the gaskets will start to show condensate streaks and you better hope that the rest of the vertical chimney is sealed up good or there will be runs

 

[Jim K in PA]

I agree Jim, if my Garn was in a good spot I would like to use a vertical chimney also.

Guys,

Just from what I've seen and experienced with my unit, I would still highly recommend the horizontal flue.

I think George misspoke and meant to say that he would use a horizontal flue if his configuration would allow it.

These units are awesome don't get me wrong, but the cans that are outside at the end of the flue are to collect sparks. Now when you run vertical and have some fast burning fuel it will look like your having a early, (or late) 4th of July. As a matter of fact, when I reposition mine, I am going to make a cyclonic collector on the back to catch sparks and moisture. Kind of on the order of a dust collector for wood shops. I'm thinking of mounting the fan on top of the collector and still discharging horizontal. The fan will be in a cooler environment and there will be more room up front and I can insulate the front better.

This is a very good point. I have not experienced a burn yet (oh, I am SO close . . .) but the incandescent sparks should be considered. What size drum are you using? I have a couple of 30 gallon drums. Would they be enough, or do I need a 55?

And I already mentioned about the condensate. Running vertical on a cold start is like putting a 6"-8" P-trap on the flue. These units are sealed up good from the factory but after a few years and flue cleanings the gaskets will start to show condensate streaks and you better hope that the rest of the vertical chimney is sealed up good or there will be runs

For this reason I am building my rear wall with a removable section so I can inspect the flue joint at the back of the GARN as well as the S/R connections.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Sawyer]

Jim is correct, I should have said "I agree Jim, if my Garn was in a good spot I would like to use a vertical chimney also."

I will rethink the enclosure, I can still plumb to allow the Garn to flip and allow horizontal venting out the overhang. This would put the exhaust 6' from my woodshed and this may be a fire hazzard also.

George